Abortion

[princessemma]

I no mother or baby would ever have to experience an abortion, which is a very traumatic event.


I think abortion is a necessary evil for the time being, because humans are flawed.

As a vegan, I would never get an abortion myself, because people are animals too.



http://veganforum.com/forums/images/smilies/mad.gif Oh please please try to understand, there as many reasons for an abortion as there are women having them. I hated the idea as a teenager, I swore I would never terminate a pregnancy. But soon after getting married I discovered I was pregnant. My husband and I were surprised but over the moon. We went for the fourteen week check-up where the midwife tried to listen to our baby's heart but she couldn't and thought that this might be because the pregnancy was earlier than first thought.

I was sent for a dating scan. At the scan the scanner shook his head and went for a second opinion. After someone else had a look at the scan we were shown into a room where my life was destroyed. The consultant told us our baby had anncaphally (spina bifida of the skull) the baby's brain had re-absorbed. This meant one of three things:
I would have a miscarriage,
The baby would be still-born,
OR
In very rare cases the baby would be born alive and die hours after the birth.

So I booked in for an abortion I was only ten weeks so it could be done under anesthetic. On the morning we were shown into a hospital room and met the chaplin who suggested we chose a name for our baby and we decided on Jamie as we had no idea wether the baby was a boy or a girl. We had a few minuets alone and a song came on the radio which we decided would be Jamie's song. Soon after I was taken down to theatre and I woke up with mild cramp like period pain. I was disgusted that loosing my baby was so physically painless. I went home that night.

The next day we had a memorial service for Jamie, the box was so tiny smaller than a shoe-box. We were told the chaplin had put in a teddy bear with Jamie and it was just slightly smaller than him or her that really touched me. I wanted to see Jamie but we were advised not to as Jamie would not have looked anythig like a full-term baby and it would have been distressing. We wanted to scatter the ashes but the chaplin told us that when babies that small are cremated there are no ashes as the bones have not calcified so the baby just disapears into the air. We put a message in the baby rememberance book and although I have not returned to see it I hope to one day.

We now have our beautiful daughter Lara who has given us so much love and joy, we call her our first to have and hold. We will never forget our first baby and every christmas we have a light put on the tree of rememberance in out local shopping centre in memory of him or her. I have the scan pictures and a toy bought before we knew there was something wrong. It's not much but it's something.

So please when you say you'll never have an abortion remember you never know what will happen in the future. Some abortions are terrible decisions made by parents who in other circumstances would keep and love the child. Please don't judge others too harshly. I still love and want my first baby but it wasn't to be. The baby would never have lived whatever I did so I chose what I saw was the least terrible option.

Sorry for rambling but this is something I obviously have experiance of.

[sugarmouse]

Princess emma you have my sympathy....you couldnt have done anything more right in that case its not arguable and youre obviously compassionate about it and didnt do it by any means lightly.



I have never wanted children...ever..for many reasons.

when i was with my ex partner,he tricked me into getting pregnant and it worked after several attempts.....i had always told him i dindt want children and he had always said he agreed.

however we discussed it again one time shortly before i became pregnant and he asked me what i would do if i was to become pregnant.i told him it was impossible as i was so careful.he said'NO SERIOUSLY, if you were.'

i said i would have an abortion.

when i became pregnant and told him and i was so irate-i didnt know how it had happened as we only did it at certain times of the month and was meticulous..he said 'i dont know i dont know' and acted innocent
i called my mom, and told her..she said'dont worry well sort it out, and i will put the money into your account '(i was very skint at the time as the guy was out of work and all my savings and wages had been up to the hilt.

she knew i would terminate...i was 7weeks.

however if i was to beleive what a lot of folk beleive...you could perhaps say i got what i deserved.i took RU486 to terminate the pregnancy...and i dont think i wil ever feel pain like it..as a warning to anyone..it is not what it is cracked up to be although i wil say i had an adverse reaction...the doctors were baffled..but i seriously htought i was close to death..note im not tryin to gain sympathy here as i know i dont deserve it, and i know it isnt possible! i merely think that if it was wrong to do what i did, i made up for it with the pain i went thru.

also...the long term side affects of the drug were unknown then and i beleive they are still unknown now.but i was unwell for over 6months after the abortion, bled heavily for 7months,and had nitemares and daytime flashbacks. my periods are now very painful, iand i have been told it is likely i have long term daamge and wil never b able to carry a child full term (note this does not upset me as i do not want to have children) but abortion can have consequences.
i have always thought of writing my story aboutthat.

[Pilaf]

It's not totally wrong to abort, seeing as how the world is overpopulated with homosapiens as it is.

But abortion shouldn't be necessary. People should find ways to release their sexual energies without fornication. In short, don't f*ck around and you won't have to suffer the consequences. As a Straight Edge person I know I'll never cause an unwanted pregnancy because wanton copulation outside a positive relationship is against my personal morals. And besides, I don't ever want to reproduce anyway. I understand it's different with women. Lots of women seem to have this instinct to be a mother. Why not adopt then? It's clearly more ethical.

While I don't feel that ripping a fetus from the womb is exactly ethical in and of itself I do weigh it against the consequences of the baby being born into an unloving family, into an unloving world. Great..congratulations. You've bred and made another hungry mouth. Another kid died in Africa because you, me and all the other comfortable people in the world keep eating up all the food and popping out little priveladged babies.

One more thing.. too many people blame alcohol on their unplanned pregnancies. "Oh..I was drunk so I didn't know what I was doing! Now I'm off to get an abortion TEEHEEHEE." Well listen up, all you little teenie boppers out there. Nobody make you drink. You took up that deplorable habit on your own accord, and anything bad that happens to you as a result is all your fault. Alcohol is the number one date rape drug in the world. If you drink around a man, in a private setting, chances are that man lacks the scruples not to take advantage of you while your defenses are lowered. Abstinance from natural sexal intercourse is the only surefire way to avoid having to have an abortion. If you can't handle that, use protection. If you can't handle that, have oral sex or something. But don't get yourself into a situation where you have to have an abortion in the first place if you can help it. It's not that hard not to get pregnant. In fact, it's easier not to. It has nothing to do with religious principals or spiritual values, it's just common sense. The best solution to any problem is to prevent the problem.

[princessemma]

In short, don't f*ck around and you won't have to suffer the consequences. outside a positive relationship is against my personal morals. And besides,
Abstinance from natural sexal intercourse is the only surefire way to avoid having to have an abortion. If you can't handle that, use protection.
But don't get yourself into a situation where you have to have an abortion in the first place if you can help it. It's not that hard not to get pregnant. In fact, it's easier not to. It has nothing to do with religious principals or spiritual values, it's just common sense. The best solution to any problem is to prevent the problem.

Wow if only everyone in the world knew that it was unprotected sex that caused pregnancy!!!
Don't be so naive most protection is only 99% effective so if 100 hetrosexual couples had protected sex there would be one pregnancy. I do agree that if have sex you must accept that there is always a chance you could get pregnant but...
Some women find they are carrying severely disabled babies with little quality of life.
Some women are raped.
Some women find they have serious illness and treatment will mean the probable loss of the baby.
Not all abortions are by women who get drunk and have one night stands.

[englishvegoboi]

Not all abortions are by women who get drunk and have one night stands.

I don't think that Pilaf was implying that.

There is no doubt that abortion is sometimes the right decision and at the end of the end day I believe that it should always be a womans right to choose whatever the circumstances. However I believe that it is very sad if an abortion occurs as a result of irresponsible behaviour due to unprotected sex and or alcohol/ drug abuse (etc) on the part of the man or the woman (or both).

[thecatspajamas1]

when i was with my ex partner,he tricked me into getting pregnant and it worked after several attempts.....
Sugarmouse- Just curious, how did he do that? Did he cut a little slit in the condom?

[sugarmouse]

i was on the pill and using condoms..and using the natural method of only having sex when i knew i could very unlikely conceive.he used various methods..of telling me he had worked out my cycle and i was infertile when i wasnt and vice versa.. he put holes in condoms, he gave me drinks sayin he had dissolved mypill inthem ..i loved and trusted this guy..lol

one particular time, not tob crude but he didntput a condom on at all and as he was at it from behind, i didnt know.

[areinwishwalrus]

I am for abortion because sometimes an abortion is needed for important medical or personal reasons.
I say this because my mother and sister both had an abortion. My sister was raped, and my mother would have died if she had the baby.
A woman should be able to choose to do what she wants with her body, and unborn child.

[thecatspajamas1]

i was on the pill and using condoms..and using the natural method of only having sex when i knew i could very unlikely conceive.he used various methods..of telling me he had worked out my cycle and i was infertile when i wasnt and vice versa.. he put holes in condoms, he gave me drinks sayin he had dissolved mypill inthem ..i loved and trusted this guy..lol

one particular time, not tob crude but he didntput a condom on at all and as he was at it from behind, i didnt know.

Whoa! what a jerk! Its because he wanted you to have a baby? How did you find out about the things that he did, did he tell you afterwards?

[thecatspajamas1]

And that kind of reminds me of a time when I was in the same sexual position and a guy was taking pictures of me with his camera phone and when I turned around and asked him what he was doing, he said nothing and tried to hind it behind his back like I wouldn't see.
It kind of seems like boys can't be trusted enough to be out of sight during sex, you have to keep their face in your vision. lol

[sugarmouse]

Whoa! what a jerk! Its because he wanted you to have a baby? How did you find out about the things that he did, did he tell you afterwards?

from themoment i found i was pregnant he was telling me he deserved a say and that he wanted to keep it..i knew he had done it purposely..i just knew..he admitted it inthe end.i was due to go to university in a few months time, and he didnt want me to go.he was a jerk-very tempermental and had used me for money all the way thru the relationship,m i was glad to b going to university to get awy from him!hed been trying to do it for months..and all the way thru me havin my hospital visits (i had 3 for RU486) he was very angry.he wouldnt have made a father, he was a complete jerk that swhat annoys me!


[QUOTE=thecatspajamas1]And that kind of reminds me of a time when I was in the same sexual position and a guy was taking pictures of me with his camera phone and when I turned around and asked him what he was doing, he said nothing and tried to hind it behind his back like I wouldn't see.
It kind of seems like boys can't be trusted enough to be out of sight during sex, you have to keep their face in your vision. lol


lol or sit on their face so u dont have to look at it :p (sorry)

[greenworlds]

It's not totally wrong to abort, seeing as how the world is overpopulated with homosapiens as it is.

It is estimated that you could fit everyone in the world on the 'Isle of wright' ( shoulder to shoulder) I'm not so sure the earth is over- population with our species ( Though I think one person eating meat is one too many :mad: ). I don't think it is a good enough reason to 'kill a human-being at the very start of his or her life.

I'm in total agreement with your views on people having sexual-intercourse, denying any responsiblility for it( on the whole) is not good enough. There are ways to orgasm without the danger of impregantion 'orgasming is more of a need than the actual intercourse.

I am for abortion because sometimes an abortion is needed for important medical or personal reasons.
I say this because my mother and sister both had an abortion. My sister was raped, and my mother would have died if she had the baby.
A woman should be able to choose to do what she wants with her body, and unborn child.

I can accept if someone life is in danger through giving birth.. an abortion would be necessary to save her life ( not forgetting doctors make mistakes and harsh judgements at times). I believe girl/ladies walking around half naked, short skirts/see-through clothing/ panties half showing at the back etc. might confuse some guys into thinking she is open to sexual advances, If the female dressed in a more non-sexaul way then men might be less inclined to make sexaul advances in the first place, and statically rape might decrease ( just a thought) some younger ladies might that are not aware how important dress sense is.
( I'm not saying it is the ladies fault)..but the type of clothing someone wears can instinctedly gives out the wrong impression..whether it is meant to or not).

[toma_Paella!!!]

Lol...

:d

[toma_Paella!!!]

The thing is... well, I'm completely against abortion but I do understand that some circumstances are really tought and a woman can't go on with the pregnancy...
The problem is that abortion is used as an anticonceptive instead of like an emergency solution, and that's simply not acceptable. Here in Spain, we're 43 million people and almost 100,000 abortions are performed every year... it's outrageous.

Some particular causes I guess are understandable, and others may make people feel sympathetic... but in the 95% of the cases it's just selfishness what makes the woman choose abortion.

[Pob]

Some particular causes I guess are understandable, and others may make people feel sympathetic... but in the 95% of the cases it's just selfishness what makes the woman choose abortion.
I don't disagree with you, but I would say that men must share an equal amount of blame. Men often put pressure on girls to have abortions, they run out when she is pregnant, etc.

[toma_Paella!!!]

Definitely, I have to agree with you on that... :mad: Many many times, men are the ones to put pressure on their female partner to have abortions... In fact, it's quite rare to find a guy with doesn't run away after his partner (or just a girl whom he has had sex with) gets unwantedly pregnant...

You're totally right, and I am sorry for not taking it into consideration in my last post.

[LittleNellColumbia]

The thing is... well, I'm completely against abortion but I do understand that some circumstances are really tought and a woman can't go on with the pregnancy...
The problem is that abortion is used as an anticonceptive instead of like an emergency solution, and that's simply not acceptable. Here in Spain, we're 43 million people and almost 100,000 abortions are performed every year... it's outrageous.

Some particular causes I guess are understandable, and others may make people feel sympathetic... but in the 95% of the cases it's just selfishness what makes the woman choose abortion.

Took the word tight outta my mouth dear Juan. I agree 100%, I despise the thought of havung an abortion as a handy use of contraseptive. But I also have no problems with an abortion is emergency situtions such as rape, terminal illness etc the list goes on. There is no shame in not wanting to have a child as the resuklt of a rape, i know what torment that would do to me, and also i wouldnt want to have a child who was almost certainly going to have a miserable life due to illness. But in the end i gess it comes down to your own morality.

[greenworlds]

At the end of the day...abortions are the result of irresponsible behaviour and decisions by people whether it's by the pregnantee,pregnanter,parent,friends etc. I don't want to sound like I'm picking on the protential mother, but I do think when she says 'it's my body I can do what I want with it'...that is not quite true as they are doing something with someone elses body, also they are not actually destroying any part of their own body. I think'on the whole it might be better if mothers had the baby and fostered it, if they really didn't want it...then at least those that might of carried the guilt wouldn't be wondering about the child for the rest of their lives
remembering their birthdays etc).

just my thoughts

[adam antichrist]

At the end of the day...abortions are the result of irresponsible behaviour

lucky you'll never have to get pregnant then, isn't it?

[adam antichrist]

lol or sit on their face so u dont have to look at it :p (sorry)

:D fkn funny

[Lagamorph]

Can you imagine a world without legal abortions? So many unwanted children, whos ramifications will echo through society. There was an article I read that was able to coorelate abortions to social ills. Unwanted children by unwilling parents created escalating social problems that lasted decades.

I went to a religious high school (still very bitter about that) in which we were told that abortions were evil and that life was precious. However, it was ok to disect pig fetuses and eat meat on a daily basis. The hypocracy was everwhere (I am restraining myself from getting too far into the religious debate grrrr :mad:).

I still think that it should be the choice of the woman. No matter the outcome, it will be the woman who faces the consequences. Abortion or life sentence with an unwanted person?

I thought about it myself, and how I would handle the situation. And to be quite honest, I really don't know, and thank my lucky stars that I do have the option to DECIDE for myself!

[LittleMissVegan]

I still think that it should be the choice of the woman. No matter the outcome, it will be the woman who faces the consequences. Abortion or life sentence with an unwanted person?

I thought about it myself, and how I would handle the situation. And to be quite honest, I really don't know, and thank my lucky stars that I do have the option to DECIDE for myself!

I agree. This is one of those arguments that will never drop. My friend was 'talked' into having an abortion by her boyfriend who then got her a puppy to make her feel better???? and she now finds it difficult to concieve. She is a maternal person so I know how much this upsets her and my heart breaks for her.

But saying that I am not maternal- I never ever want children- I don't coo over babies, I don't like other peoples kids and I know that if I had a child it would be the most stupidest thing that I would have ever have done. I would hate the child, myself and my life.

I would be horrified if I ever got pregnant but I am not going to have a life without sex. I have and always will use contraception which I am meticulous about but like many of you have said before it's not 100% effective. I am no way an irresponsible person when it comes to that! And at 22 years old- I have been to the doctor and asked to be sterilised as an extra precaution but I am 'too young'.

On the other hand I agree with some of you that abortion shouldn't be used as an after thought when you have 'forgot' to use contraception or you just couldn't be bothered to take out 10 seconds to slip a condom on.

It's an endless debate..........

[sugarmouse]

Lil miss vegan i could have written every word of that myself:)
i have also been told itislikely i cannot now carry a baby full term.
bothered?nope.lol
i was quoted a rather hefty price for sterilization once..not sure ifstil valid now though.i never coo over babies.life is life, but abortion is the least of my concerns.


adam antichrist..sorry..have to admit im everybit as crude in RL.lol

[LittleMissVegan]

Well I'm glad someone agrees with me I was beginning to think I was on mi lonesome on this one cos all my friends are really maternal aswell!!!! My doctor just dismissed my asking for sterilization because I am too young and don't have any kids so I didn't get any info- But if there is one thing i'm good at it's pestering people LOL

[Lagamorph]

I am not the maternal type either. I was also considering sterlization, until I found out I had endometriosis. Great bonus. I hate how doctors will make your boobs a crazy size, insert fat into your lips, but when it comes to your repordictive system, refuse to alter it. Despite our growing global population crisis. Boggles my fragile little mind.