Abortion

[Apple_Blossem]

Carrying a child in your womb and caring for a growing, walking, talking child is the same hair-raising, stressful situation if a parent doesnt want to be in it. A baby in the womb is the same entity as a newborn outside of the womb. However, parents, dont have the right to "abort" or kill their living baby when they realize that the responsibility of parenthood is definitely NOT for them...and they'd rather be out partying with friends.

What about the mother who put her two baby boys in a car and sunk it in a lake to "live happily ever after" with her new boyfriend?? She was faced with the SAME stressful situation: Was it wrong of her to choose freedom since it WAS HER life and HER happiness? She litterally committed an abortion for the same reason many other mothers pick abortion. Was it her right? Or do we view her as self absorbed....

Actually, just last month my best friend learned that his mother aborted her last baby (at 4 months preg) by a boyfriend she hardly knew...because she didnt want more kids. Its eye opening to see that abortion is not being used for rape, but that over 30% of abortions are due to casual risky sexual activity (a dumb reason in my mind if it HAS to be legal... ).

[xrodolfox]

That's why an abortion needs to be a medical decision between a woman and her doctor.

I'm sure that all those horrible cases of multiple elective abortions for unsafe and promiscuous women do exist... but I'm quite sure they are the extreme exception rather than the rule. An abortion needs to be a medical decision of last resort, but a medical decision that should not be legislated none the less.

[dreama]

I am sure that the women who have become pregnant as a result of a rape, and who have chosen to abort, would take offence to that blanket statement.

No actually I wouldn't. Although I didn't choose to abort. I simply took the morning after pill so there may not have been a baby to abort. Personally I don't consider the morning after pill as being the same as abortion, but even if some people would consider it the same as abortion I still wouldn't take offence. (Even if I had had an abortion due to this I still wouldn't take offence as I think it's wrong to kill only I may have felt differantly back then as I was still omni).

I agree with Seaside saying abortion is unvegan.

[Apple_Blossem]

I do agree that abortion is "unvegan" as well. They give pregnant pigs abortions so that they can use their fetuses in dissecting labs for college classes (believe me, I've been there *blech*). The throats are cut inside the womb so they are dead when they come out.

I would not condone killing a helpless piglet in the womb, so I couldnt condone killing a helpless baby in the womb either.

Its definitely unvegan.

[Blue moon]

Carrying a child in your womb and caring for a growing, walking, talking child is the same hair-raising, stressful situation if a parent doesnt want to be in it. A baby in the womb is the same entity as a newborn outside of the womb. We dont give parents the right to kill that newborn when they realize they've made the wrong decision in having children.... and dont want the responsibility of staying up at night for the nighttime feedings and the stress of parenthood.... but would rather be out partying with friends. However, why cant they just kill the child and go on with their happy lives?

What about the mother who put her two baby boys in a car and sunk it in a lake to "live happily ever after" with her new boyfriend?? She was faced with the SAME stressful situation: Was it wrong of her to choose freedom since it WAS HER life and HER happiness? She litterally committed an abortion for the same reason many other mothers pick abortion. Was it her right? Or do we view her as self absorbed....

One very extreme example.

I don't see how this compares to abortion - this woman had a choice, children could be cared for by someone else. Abortion is entirely different that the woman has to sacrifice her own body with noone else able to take over.

I also HATE the idea that things should be any different for women who are raped or whose own health is at risk. ALL women have the right to decide what to do with their own bodies, I really don't like this line drawing in the sand of "I'll allow it for her but not her".

Noone has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their bodies, not governments or religions (both usually male rulemakers I might add!) and certainly not other individuals.

[Blue moon]

Its definitely unvegan.

No it isn't.

[xrodolfox]

No actually I wouldn't. Although I didn't choose to abort. I simply took the morning after pill so there may not have been a baby to abort. Personally I don't consider the morning after pill as being the same as abortion, but even if some people would consider it the same as abortion I still wouldn't take offence. (Even if I had had an abortion due to this I still wouldn't take offence as I think it's wrong to kill only I may have felt differantly back then as I was still omni).

I agree with Seaside saying abortion is unvegan.

The reality is that sometimes, those drugs or birth control aren't available. We lived in a country where there was no morning after pill or legal abortions and women died trying to abort fetuses from rape cases (especialy if those cases were unproven).

Due to the variability of access to certain drugs and birth control, I think that abortion should always be an option for a woman and her doctor.

I do agree that abortion is "unvegan" as well. They give pregnant pigs abortions so that they can use their fetuses in dissecting labs for college classes (believe me, I've been there *blech*). The throats are cut inside the womb so they are dead when they come out.

I would not condone killing a helpless piglet in the womb, so I couldnt condone killing a helpless baby in the womb either.

Its definitely unvegan.

I think it is certainly "vegan" for a cow to feed cow milk to a calf. I also think it is "vegan" for a human mother to feed her breastmilk to a human infant. Cow milk in the absolute isn't "unvegan"; it is partially the process by which is procured as well as the use it is intended for. Cow milk suckled by a calf is always vegan, while cow milk for human animals is not.

Your comparison of a pig fetus being "unvegan" makes sense. The pig's fetus is taken against the will of the pig for human (opressor) consumption... but comparing it to humans who want or need an abortion is totally different. Unless the human is forced to have an abortion against her will, an abortion is not being doing by an opressor against the woman.

Now, I can say that an abortion isn't ideal. Preventing an abortion is much better if pregnancy is not wanted; both medically and ethically. However, I feel that limiting the rights of doctors and women with regards to their sexual well being is much worse.

[dreama]

The reality is that sometimes, those drugs or birth control aren't available. We lived in a country where there was no morning after pill or legal abortions and women died trying to abort fetuses from rape cases (especialy if those cases were unproven).



My point was that even if I had had an abortion that would not have changed the way I feel about abortions NOW. After all I used to eat meat which I now know is wrong. In a way it's lucky I didn't have an abortion as it's one less thing I have to feel guilty about.

I just don't like people who make assumsions like saying all rape victims (who may have had an abortion) would be offended by someone who was pro life because I can tell you that is simply NOT the case.

[cobweb]

hmm, interesting.............if all abortion is unvegan, well, so is the contraceptive pill, too :confused:


a bit harsh to judge others who've been through an abortion if you are fortunate enough not to, and to be blunt i often see children who could not have been worse off had their parents decided to terminate the pregnancy :(.

Having said that, it's a disgusting industry, i personally believe that the cut-off date is way too late into pregnancy, and having been through a termination myself i know first-hand how awful it is; if you have any kind of conscience!. I still think of my unborn child every February which would have been his birthday - he would be approaching his 18th soon :(:(. That makes me extremely sad actually, it's like living with a ghost.

[sugarmouse]

I always say by definitiom maybe I cannot call myself a true vegan, becauseI am so misanthropistic.
I wasnt raped.I Was in a relationship. I had a baby purely for selfish reasons if you like. But I didnt feel selfish. I didnt regret it, I regret it having to occur, butI do not regret the decision.

[ClawsyWP]

I think it is very sad, for the woman to have to decide... and i cant i havent walked in her shoes and i have never had such a hard thing to decide about. so while i dont like the idea of abortion i cant say if given the circumstances that i would not opt for it. i would find it very sad though. i think lots of women do.

I dont think it is unvegan. I beleive a woman has the right to decide if HER body, that is, her property and her body, no one else's body grows a fetus inside it.

You can't force people to give up bodily things such as blood or organs to another person, & you should not be able to force women to carry fetus/ cells /baby, wotever u want to call it.

i think more should be done to prevent people needing them but i would not make them illegal.

[cobweb]

there definitely needs to be more help and conselling available, too, when i made my decision, i felt really pushed into it by an uncaring doctor and a frightened boyfriend, but if i had had some kind of support i would have kept the baby for sure :(.

[Digital Ghost]

I had to have an abortion as I got very ill and had internal bleeding as well as other complications. I was totally devastated and told my frightened (now ex) boyfriend I wanted to die instead of having an abortion.

I can understand what cobweb says about always thinking about the child around the time it would have been their birthday. I also feel awful on the date that I had the abortion - its like the day I killed her.

[xrodolfox]

Those last two stories are sad and horrible.

I just want to mention that I know of three women (whom I'm close with)who had abortions for whom it was the right desicion. Even though it wasn't ideal, none of those three women think about the abortion as a sad event. No guilt. No trauma. All done by free will and self directed.

Its really sad that sometimes, medical procedures aren't done under the best circumstances, and that the decision is sometimes not the correct one. However, just like there are cases of when the decision was the wrong one, there are cases when it was the correct thing to do.

[dreama]

Well if I had ever had an abortion I would never have forgiven myself.

[cobweb]

Well if I had ever had an abortion I would never have forgiven myself.

i haven't :(, it's another guilt trip i regularly take :rolleyes:

[xrodolfox]

Well if I had ever had an abortion I would never have forgiven myself.

Well, you are entitled to that. My worry is forcing that "unforgiveness" to someone else who may end up forgiving herself.

I only know a few women who've had abortions, and none of them have carried any guilt or baggage about their decision.

i haven't forgiven myself :(, it's another guilt trip i regularly take :rolleyes:

That's really too bad. Have you sought out professional help for this? I'm not saying you made a good or a bad decision for yourself, but beating yourself up is not good regardless of the reasoning.

Sometimes we all make bad decisions, especially when we in a state of tension, stress, and pressure.

[cobweb]

i agree with all of the above.

Personally i know that feeling guilty is futile so i just wallow in guilt over this occasionally! ;).
I haven't seen a professional but i did have a long chat with a spiritualist medium/friend who i really trusted, and he gave me a lot of reassurance and peace of mind.

Personally i think it's ok to have guilt trips now and then to remind us of who we are and what is important to us.

[sugarmouse]

I dont feel guilty about it in the slighrtest, and I cnnot remember the date.Its sad thatso many feelguilty about it.
For the record, I did use a condom thenight Iconceived. And I also took the morning aftger pill. It didnt work,obviously.

[dreama]

i haven't :(, it's another guilt trip i regularly take :rolleyes:

I'm sorry.

I'm glad I never had one. There are so many things that I feel guilty about so I know how you must be feeling. I even feel guilty about being raped as when I reported it I was given the 3rd degree although at least I got the chance of having the morning after pill as I was at college at the time but I was not believed and labelled a trouble maker. It was a good job I did take the morning after pill because if I'd had had an abortion it would just have been too much.

I don't really know how to say this. Yes, I am very strongly pro life and it does bother me when woman say they had an abortion and it was no big deal or if they say they would have an abortion if their fetus was disabled.

However, considering my past, I am in no position to condem women who've had abortions in the past any more then I can condem people who ate meat in the past or even wore fur.

[Blue moon]

I don't really know how to say this. Yes, I am very strongly pro life and it does bother me when woman say they had an abortion and it was no big deal or if they say they would have an abortion if their fetus was disabled.

Whether it bothers you or not, it's not your business what other women do with their bodies.

I am in no position to condem women who've had abortions

Then don't - simple!:)

any more then I can condem people who ate meat in the past or even wore fur.

The issues are not related, regardless of anyone's opinions on either.

[dreama]

Whether it bothers you or not, it's not your business what other women do with their bodies.


Yes it is as an inocent unborn child is being murdered! Same as an inocent animal has to die if you eat meat. I can't believe someone who considers themselves as vegan should hold such views but it's typical of people who are for murdering unborn babies to be rude like this I've noticed it before.

[sugarmouse]

Yes it is as an inocent unborn child is being murdered! Same as an inocent animal has to die if you eat meat. I can't believe someone who considers themselves as vegan should hold such views but it's typical of people who are for murdering unborn babies to be rude like this I've noticed it before.

I dont think Blue Moon was being rude
I guess if it isnt vegan to abort ,then I am
not vegan.However the soul reason I am vegan is because Ilove animals.I am not a lover of humans, and I am not a lover of children.
I beleive t is my business to coach others to not eat meat. But eating meat affects the whole cycle of life,environmentally, financially, and casues much pain ad suffering.
Abortion is one choice by one person that in my case only affectedme, and the idiot I was dating.

[Korn]

Please have a look at our FAQ....

(6) Please treat each other (including members that in your opinion don't follow our guidelines) with respect, and focus on viewpoints, not on persons. Please offer others the same understanding and kindness you would like to receive instead of fighting back (by insulting others/accusing others for being rude, idiots, sick etc) if you are verbally attacked by others.)

Thanks,
K.

[Windfall]

Abortion is one choice by one person that in my case only affectedme, and the idiot I was dating.

I agree, sugarmouse