Abortion

[Roxy]

As there's no vegan 'line' on the issue, I imagine there will be as many views as there are vegans! Personally, I feel it is up to those concerned to come to a decision.

I am with Eve on this one.

[Skajen]

i'm very open minded, i never press my opinion upon- sorry if i gave that impression! john asked a question, i answered it!
ooopps, me and my big mouth

[Kevster]

I'm against abortion, but there may be some circumstances for it.

[Skajen]

I'm against abortion, but there may be some circumstances for it.

agree with kevster

hi kevster! :)

[adam antichrist]

I think some of the methods are pretty barbaric, in particular the third trimester 'partial birth' method which must be very traumatic for all invloved. But in no way am I against it, and I think the arguments that right to lifers put forward are generally ridiculous and unsympathetic.

I just wish there could be 'nicer' ways of doing it.

[Kumem]

I agree with Eve too - it's personal and entirely circumstantial and let's not forget the hormones involved make it an even harder decision to make if you are personally involved

[screamingcarrot]

I myself could never have an abortion. i dont think i judge anyone who does..some of my friends have had abortions. its completely ones own decision,but i know i couldnt go through with it personally.

in certain cirumstances eg rape, i completely understand the desire for one, however if it is seen as a late form of contraception to people who have been careless then i think that is morally wrong.

[Kumem]

I agree that using it as an alternative method of contraception is morally wrong. However, what happens with people who use contraception and it fails. I don't mean that they were careless with a condom, or the pill, but some forms are almost 100%, but do fail.

[screamingcarrot]

very good point..
well, i guess that thats a risk you take when you have sex. no method is 100% failsafe and i think most people know that before they use contraception..
mm difficult tho...

[Kumem]

The Mirena Coil is 99.9% effective, as effective as sterilisation. IMO I was being the most responsible person that I could be.
I fell pregnant on it.

http://www.mirena-us.com/

[Wishin986]

Pro-Choice. All the way. I'm pretty much pro-choice on all issues out there. Also with abortion, if the woman doesn't want the baby badly enough she'll do anything not to including injuring herself and even starving herself. It would be much safer to just have abortion. Just my opinion! I completely respect all others and it took me a while and a lot of debating and research to come to this decision! :)

[screamingcarrot]

The Mirena Coil is 99.9% effective, as effective as sterilisation. IMO I was being the most responsible person that I could be.
I fell pregnant on it.

http://www.mirena-us.com/

It definitely sounds failsafe and i would have trusted it completely too.. didnt mean to cause offense. i guess then ive been lucky so far.

[Kumem]

Hi - no offence taken at all :)
I actually had the same views and still do to a certain extent. You know the risks etc, but sometimes things happen completely out of your control. I didn't have a termination, as I miscarried, but I was just demonstrating that there are some contraceptives that are supposed to be so effective, but there are cases where they don't work :(

[Pob]

I'm pro-choice, too.

If it was my child, though, I would not want it to be aborted, whether that would cause me problems or not. In other words, if I got someone pregnant and she wanted to abort, I would not want her to.

[harpy]

I'm in favour of the law allowing people to make their own decisions and to have abortions as safely as possible if they decide to go down that route.

Personally I can't say I'm keen on the idea of abortions, though (who is?), particularly later ones - I think it would be good if it were made easier to have an early abortion so that fewer people find themselves in that position.

[screamingcarrot]

Hi - no offence taken at all :)
I actually had the same views and still do to a certain extent. You know the risks etc, but sometimes things happen completely out of your control. I didn't have a termination, as I miscarried, but I was just demonstrating that there are some contraceptives that are supposed to be so effective, but there are cases where they don't work :(


im glad youre not offended :) ..youmake a good point and given me food for thought :rolleyes:

[Peas'nHominy]

I am pro-life with grace, so to speak. I have 4 very close friends who have had abortions, and I love them dearly and would never be harsh to them for it.

I am NOT pro-government having the power to decide. :mad: Because of this, some might think I am "pro-choice". I think I am pro-choice for choosing life if at all possible.

My first labor/delivery experience was awful, and I made it clear to my husband that if he had to make a decision between saving me or the baby, that he must choose for the baby. Looking back on it now, I do not think the doctor would have honored my request. Fortunately, my son survived. I will probably always have some problems from the ordeal, but I am still here and went on to have 2 more babies. :)

[adam antichrist]

Almost every woman I know has had an abortion, and there are long term emotional effects of guilt and shame. I am not sure how much this relates to the procedure or the counselling involved, but I have seen women burst into tears when triggered by certain events years after their experience.

I suppose it affects everyone differently...but there are always consequences, are there not? I think it would be foolish to be against abortion for the potential emotional damage done to the female after the event, when perhaps the pregnancy could easily cause such trauma, giving a child up for adoption would likely cause more trauma, and there are way too many unappreciated children in unhappy homes around the world to justify the absolute neccesity of every pregnancy being carried to term irrespective of the circumstances surrounding the pregnancy.

On a related issue, and apologies if I'm not remembering this very accurately; I heard recently that US pharmacists have been given exemption from anti-discrimination laws allowing them to not sell morning after pills if they are against abortion as they view them as the same thing.

This means there have been women in remote areas, where the only pharmacist has refused to provide morning after pills; who have ended up enduring a pregnancy to give birth to a child they could not afford to keep.

On the program I saw, the woman in question with five kids, broke a condom having sex with her husband and they could not afford the new child. The pharmacist bought into that 'life begins at one second old' thing that right to lifers spout (which incidentally has no scientific backing as it's just a rapidly dividing cluster of cells for the first weeks... see this link (http://fig.cox.miami.edu/~cmallery/150/devel/animal_development.htm) for outline of development of human blastula) and refused to take into account the extenuating circumstances.

Thats fine for his personal opinion but I have to wonder, if a health professional wishes to sit in judgment on such moral issues why are they allowed to remain in their profession? Why don't they just work somewhere else? Don't get vegans working in butcher shops... do you?

[SurfNSun]

Thats fine for his personal opinion but I have to wonder, if a health professional wishes to sit in judgment on such moral issues why are they allowed to remain in their profession? Why don't they just work somewhere else? Don't get vegans working in butcher shops... do you?

As usual http://veganforum.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif you make an excellent point their Adam... It doesn't seem fair for a pharmacist to denie some one who has the choice/right to get the pill. Each one of the them has the choice to sell it (pharmacist) or buy it (the women) , therefore what you said Adam makes good sense...

[Gliondrach]

I don't think that anyone has the right to take the life of another - unless there's a damned good reason. When the baby is only a few cells I have no objection to disposing of them This belief. about the sanctity of life, was one part of my decision to become vegan. Remember, there are people who believe that it is all right to kill animals for any reason or for no reason.

As for contraception - if you are not willing to live with the consequences, don't do anything that might have consequences.

[aubergine]

Obviously I don't know what I'm talking about, because I'm not a woman. Or at least that's what I have leveled at me in these sort of discussions.

On a political angle, I am pro-choice. Simply because I believe we should all have the right to decide our own fate. Just like how we have the right to choose whether to eat meat or not.

I have a hard time understanding how somebody who stands up for the rights of an animal to live, can abandon the right of a baby to live. That just doesn't sit with me. I could never sanction an abortion in my own personal life, because there is always a way to cope with the situation. A baby is a blessing.

The other thing that riles me, is that we have the biggest choice of all to keep our trousers on. Sex isn't a right, it's a wonderful thing.

Obviously rape and health issues are a bit different, I'm talking about 'lifestyle' abortions.

[harpy]

I have a hard time understanding how somebody who stands up for the rights of an animal to live, can abandon the right of a baby to live.

Well, I'm against infanticide as well as meat-eating :D but I wouldn't put early abortions in the same category because to me a foetus in the first weeks of development isn't a baby - and more importantly, it probably doesn't have conscious awareness. Of course, when it acquires it is a bit of a grey area.

[adam antichrist]

I have a hard time understanding how somebody who stands up for the rights of an animal to live, can abandon the right of a baby to live.

That's funny, thats the main problem I have with the pro-lifers who might not all go so far as to kill a doctor who performs abortions but for the most part seem to think eating meat is just fine :rolleyes:

I'm talking about 'lifestyle' abortions.

I wish meateaters would have 'lifestyle abortions'
:D

[aubergine]

That's funny, thats the main problem I have with the pro-lifers who might not all go so far as to kill a doctor who performs abortions but for the most part seem to think eating meat is just fine :rolleyes:



I wish meateaters would have 'lifestyle abortions'
:D

The way I look at my own life, is that I choose not to harm animals. I also choose not to allow myself the opportunity to get somebody pregnant unless I can be responsible enough to live with the consequances. We live in a very disposable society where we can pick and choose our destiny at whim. Abstinance costs nothing, and some very poor people manage to raise families.

[adam antichrist]

The way I look at my own life, is that I choose not to harm animals. I also choose not to allow myself the opportunity to get somebody pregnant unless I can be responsible enough to live with the consequances. We live in a very disposable society where we can pick and choose our destiny at whim. Abstinance costs nothing, and some very poor people manage to raise families.

Thats fine for yourself but doesn't serve as a model for society. With the exception of people with reproductive dysfunction, all adult humans are capable of inducing pregnancy regardless of whether they understand it or not. That means severely disabled people who may have more than the usual trouble of rearing children as well as the countless members of society with psychiatric or religious issues affecting their capacity for parenthood or taking responsiblity for their actions (eg catholicism and the use of contraception).

I think people like to form opinions but nobody can ever know how it is for each individual let alone foresee every possible outcome and to prevent everyone from having abortions based on a model of 'best behaviour' rather than examining personal situations is equally offensive to the taking of a life, if that is how you choose to view abortion.

I think the whole abortion issue will evaporate as soon as we perfect time travel, then international terrorists and criminals like adolf hitler and george bush can be aborted before they cause any harm and only their family will suffer instead of 9/10 of the world :D