Abortion

[bulletproof]

we don't seem to have it anymore, it was very informative i thought- is there any way of recovering it form the old forum? thanks.

[Korn]

Not unless someone saved it or the people who try to work on getting access to the old backups from our previous host company are more successful than they have been so far....

[bulletproof]

:(

[foxytina_69]

why dont u just start a new one bulletproof :)

[bulletproof]

well personally i just wanted to get hold of many useful links that were given throughout the debate, to use in another debate, and for general reference, but since it's here now...

abortion- is it right or is it wrong?

[foxytina_69]

i believe in abortions. i cant say if they are right or wrong because for many people it is different. but for me personally it is right if it came to that measure, as it has for sum of my family members and i support them.

[Marlene]

I am pro-choice.

[Korn]

Hi, Marlene, and welcome on board! :)

Not that words are that important, but....: First time I saw the expression 'pro-choice', I actually wondered if the person meant choice for the mother, or choice for the baby... (Now i know.) Since this is a board for people from many countries - where 'pro-choice' and 'pro-life' aren't used - maybe it would be a good idea to avoid these descriptions? What do you think? Nobody would say that they are 'against life' or 'against choice' anyway..... I hope!

Plus, personally, I think ProLife almost sounds like something you can buy in a health food store....

[Marlene]

Whoops, let me clarify: pro-choice, meaning that I believe the (potential) mother should have control over her situation and her body, and abortion should be a legal option for her.

[bulletproof]

i am pro-life

[Pooh]

Whoops, let me clarify: pro-choice, meaning that I believe the (potential) mother should have control over her situation and her body, and abortion should be a legal option for her.

See, that is where the problem arises... I'm against abortion because I think a baby inside a mothers womb is NOT her body. A new person has already been created. A mother cannot make a choice on behalf of that other person, except adopting the baby away after it has been born, if she really wants to.

[bulletproof]

i agree, it isn't 'her body', it is a whole new one, and should be given the same rights as the person in which it lives

[bulletproof]

it = he/she

[mattd]

the legal status of abortion isn't the problem (or i should say the legality of it). abortion isn't the problem. people being irresponsible sexually is the problem. by attacking the legality of abortion you're going after the symptom, not the underlying (societal) illness.

i'd consider myself pro-chioce in that i firmly believe that abortion needs to be available. there are situations that many women are forced into in which bringing a child into the world would turn both of their lives into a living hell. i don't believe i'm out of line when i say that the majority of you here (and the majority of staunch pro-lifers out there) can't relate to a situation like that, because it will never happen to you. making abortion illegal will push women who are stuck in these situations to have unsafe, life threatening procedures. keep it legal and keep it safe is how i feel about it.

now, the more effective approach to stopping abortion is stopping the need for abortion. if everyone who was sexually active practiced safe sex, the rate of unexpected pregnancy would dramatically drop. teenagers need to be better educated. the bush administrations policy of teaching abstinence will never work, and neither will trying to scare kids out of sex. we need to be honest with them, tell them to be responsible, tell them what the consiquences of being irresponsible are, and make birth control and condoms more available to them.

[bulletproof]

of course prevention is better than a cure. but it isn't all the case that a woman gets pregnant due to not using a condom- they break, and even the pill isn't a 100% prevention. these things happen. many pro-life people say abortion is acceptable if a woman is raped- i actually don't.

the way i see it is that rape is a terrible thing, but it was something that was beyond a mother's unborn baby's control just as much as it was out of the mother's, and to kill another being is cruel. so by having abortion due to rape, a mother (or potential mother) is making a terrible situation even more terrible- first rape and then the death of a baby.

i think that most people (people here at least) would agree that to kill a life is wrong- or at least to kill a person- but the point is that people have different beliefs about when life starts- when does that structureless bag of cells become a person? when does this thing recieve a soul? some would say that a pregnant woman carries a POTENTIAL life- i don't. potential life, to me, is the sperm and the egg- haploid- when they come together, life begins, a baby is growing rapidly, developing inside, completely unique- individual- a product of mitosis, which, to me means this being has a soul.

however, i do not think abortion (the prematire expulsion of the baby from the womb) should be illegal- i think abortion as it is now should be illegal- and abortion legal but with many more limitations than there are currently...

it should be done due to a person's health/life being serously at risk

it should be done much earlier on in the pregnancy, when far less formed

and the baby should be aborted and killed painlessly with the injection as they are supposed to be - not like this http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/...ning%20Standard

1% of abortions are due to rape, 1% incest, and 3% health reasons. The other 95% use it as a method of birth control- which is awful when you consider the cruelty: a woman can have an abortion at 24 weeks, and at 24 weeks a baby can survive outside the womb- he/she is aware of his/her own existance, is very formed, can move around, recognise his/her mother's voice, and most definetely feel pain.

if you look at how developed an embryo is each week, at different stages of pregnancy, and then see the points along this growth whereby abortion is still legal it may shock you to realise how person-like this 'thing', as he/she seems to be treated- as an inconvenience- actually is.

just look at this! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3846525.stm




bulletproof

[TheFirstBus]

There are just to many extenuating circumstances to make a clear call. I'll say this I do not think it should be used as a form of birth control.

[Jivana108]

I am pro-life. Im not sure how, but I dont get how vegans or vegetarians would ever support abortion. I also dont believe there is such a thing as a pro-choice, its not pro-choice, its pro-abortion.

[After The Rain]

It's possible to be against abortion and still not want abortion to be illegal. (I'm against abortion myself).

[Veganmama]

I don't think it should be used as a form of birth control. But i would rather see a junkie mother who can't even look after herself have an abortion then bring a baby into the worls that has to sit crying in the corner whilst her mother is having a fix.

Or a child that is brought into the world and is taken of it's parents as it gets abused and then is shipped around foster homes until they can go out into the world on their own at 16.

If a child isn't going to be loved and cherished, firstly they shouldn't be concived but then if their mother is so sure they want an abortion do you think a person like that would make a good mother?

[ConsciousCuisine]

If a child isn't going to be loved and cherished, firstly they shouldn't be concived but then if their mother is so sure they want an abortion do you think a person like that would make a good mother?
AMEN. :)

We can't make people make responsable, balanced choices. If we could, the world would be vegan! Until we can create a better world with safety nets for everyone, we need there to be options for those who are "broken" or just don't want a baby!

I agree, abortion should never be used as birth control in America, especially. Free birth control is available to anyone if they look around a bit...

[John]

I think that anyone who has not adopted a child is a hypocrite to say that abortion is wrong. Let's find loving homes for all the orphans of the world before we bring one more orphan in.

[Roxy]

John makes a good point here.

[DontJustDoSomething, SitThere]

Adoption is an alternative to abortion. Still, there is a difference between not offering someone to adopt their unborn child as an alternative to their potentially planned abortion, on one side, and not consider adoption as an alternative to a personal abortion.

[John]

Don't they say: "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem." I would love to be with everyone on the moral high horse but it just seems to me that abortion is a necessary "evil" in this cruel world. I think that bringing into the world and alowing there to be unwanted children is a greater crime than aborting a fetus.

I'm no better. I don't have any adopted children. And really, how many people have the patience for emotionally or physically crippled older children?

[ConsciousCuisine]

"And really, how many people have the patience for emotionally or physically crippled older children?"

Right, unwanted children create more despair and misery in our society! It is a tragedy for a child to be abused, mistreated, shuffled around in the system and feel separated and "different" from everyone! It does not just take patience to take on such a child, but it also takes having ample time and money to devote to taking on this responsability! Has anyone known anyone who has adopted or been foster parent to a child or children? The stipend you get does not cover even basic living expenses, not to mention a "salary" replacement, yes, I said a salary replacement, because it is often impossible to work when you have a special-needs child, or to afford daycare (appropriate daycare) if you don't stay at home to care for the child yourself all the time! It is certainly an issue.