PDA

View Full Version : Health arguments against dairy products



Pages : 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7

mememe
May 23rd, 2006, 12:03 PM
What is clomid? I love the idea of twins, so they are done in one bash as it were, but isn't it less healthy for them to be sharing a womb, and don't they come out a bit smaller? How can you increase your chances of having twins, other than find someone with a histroy of twins in their families?
And other than taking fertitlity drugs, I meant.

veganblue
May 23rd, 2006, 12:17 PM
Thanks mememe - that was really interesting! I have no huge personal interest in reproduction but it's good to know *things*.

I don't know how families cope with 8 after over successful implantation!

moonshadow
May 23rd, 2006, 05:25 PM
thanks for posting that explanation!

i hate when people ask me if i think i don't ovulate because i'm vegan... no, i have pcos, and like most people with pcos, i have ovulatory problems. most vegans do ovulate just fine, and most people with pcos aren't vegan....


other than taking fertility meds and, i guess other than drinking gallons of milk (!) i don't know of any way to increase the chance of twins. i kind of hoped that we'd have had twins, but i'm more than fine that xylia came on her own!!!!! she's a right handful! but, a sweet one :)


mememe-- i hope that nature brings you twins. in that, 'you never know, it could happen' kind of way.

kriz
May 23rd, 2006, 06:12 PM
Think of yourself as replacing the vegan quotient of the population. :)

I like that idea.;)

DoveInGreyClothing
Jun 7th, 2006, 08:18 PM
I'm sure I read in a women's mag that eating yams at conception increases your chances of having twins! This could well be an old wives' tale with no basis however.

Korn
Oct 26th, 2006, 09:47 AM
It's interesting to see how many humans have been fooled to feel that drinking milk from a cow is natural for humans, and I guess it's because we have a tendency to mix natural with normal. I'm pretty sure most people who drink cow's milk would find it strange, and maybe slightly disgusting - if, when drinking milk, someone would tell them that the milk came from a pig, elephant or horse, because they are not used to drink milk from these animals. I'm also pretty sure that most cow milk drinking humans would find it more than strange to drink milk directly from the udders of any of these animals - maybe they should try eg. drinking milk from a horse once, and see how 'natural' it felt? :)

Korn
Apr 22nd, 2007, 08:56 AM
Here's some more info about the link between dairy products and Parkinson's disease:

Dairy food linked with Parkinson’s disease in men (http://www.healthrelatedinfos.com/2007/04/19/dairy-food-linked-with-parkinsons-disease-in-men.html)
American Journal of Epidemiology: Consumption of Dairy Products and Risk of Parkinson's Disease (http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/kwk089v1)

frank language
Jul 9th, 2007, 04:16 AM
She didn't mention that dark green leafy vegetables, brocolli, various nuts (such as almonds) and fortified soya milk (to name a few) can be just as good a sources of calcium (if not better) than milk products - which are chock full of nasties. :rolleyes:
Well, even without the nasties, she really didn't mention that milk contains calcium but not the magnesium to balance it. This can lead to cardiac arrhythmia.

steven1222
Jul 11th, 2007, 06:30 PM
Unfortunately, this increased risk is not likely to have an effect on milk-drinkers, because it is still low as an actual percentage.


milk contains calcium but not the magnesium to balance it. This can lead to cardiac arrhythmia.

Maybe it can if people consumed only milk, but it is necessary to assume that most dairy users get magnesium from somewhere else. Otherwise, they would all have that. Anyway, I now know why one of my evil relatives said cardiac arrhythmia is normal!

Trethewey
Jan 16th, 2008, 08:13 PM
Milk is truly disgusting. I really enjoyed watching the Mcdougall DVD section "Marketing Milk and Disease" for my Nutrition class. It showed how the dairy industry spends millions of dollars every year to propagate its message on the naive, American public. Mcdougal says that 9 out of 10 cows have the BLV (Bovine Leukemia Virus). He goes on to tell that milk is mixed in big vats and distributed, thus every glass of milk is likely to contain BLV. Veterinarians, and dairy farmers have higher incidences of leukemia consequently. At the end of the DVD he says something like "Milk is for baby cows, you are not a cow" except more eloquently, of course. It just makes me so mad to see and hear commercials recommending 3 a day for dairy when i know its to the detriment of society.

paragonx
Jan 30th, 2008, 08:13 PM
How did all this get started (drinking milk i mean).

I am so sad after reading all of this. Just as i, and all humans should be. :(

x-SaRaH-x
Jan 30th, 2008, 10:04 PM
i think it's sad when people ask you why you don't drink milk and you have to explain to them about all this, and yet they still just shrug it off. How can they not care??

Sometime sit does make me think 'why do i care if they don't? What is it in me that makes em decide to change when they can just ignore it?' Those thought upset me really :(

kferg
Feb 4th, 2008, 06:27 AM
People believe just about everything they read in magazines or see on the television. I've seen so many commercials that say "3 glasses of milk a day will help you lose weight." (I really don't know if the correct number is 3, I'm just taking a guess).

HAHA no it won't. Not eating saturated or trans fat or too much refined sugar will keep you healthy, and getting off your ass and exercizing will help you lose weight and stay healthy. People want the easy way to be healthy, so the milk industry decided to tell everyone that milk is good for you because, hey, we'll believe anything that isn't too extreme and doesn't require a long process of change.

Bottom line, people like things easy and free of drastic change. When some people hear that meat and dairy is bad for them and they shouldn't consume it, they choose to ignore it because they are WAY too scared to try to change that much, even if they know it will benefit them in the long run.

Roxy
Feb 4th, 2008, 07:19 AM
Bottom line, people like things easy and free of drastic change. When some people hear that meat and dairy is bad for them and they shouldn't consume it, they choose to ignore it because they are WAY too scared to try to change that much, even if they know it will benefit them in the long run.

Yes, I agree. Apathy has a lot to do with it :(

veggiemaya
Feb 5th, 2008, 03:57 AM
People believe just about everything they read in magazines or see on the television. I've seen so many commercials that say "3 glasses of milk a day will help you lose weight." (I really don't know if the correct number is 3, I'm just taking a guess).

HAHA no it won't. Not eating saturated or trans fat or too much refined sugar will keep you healthy, and getting off your ass and exercizing will help you lose weight and stay healthy. People want the easy way to be healthy, so the milk industry decided to tell everyone that milk is good for you because, hey, we'll believe anything that isn't too extreme and doesn't require a long process of change.

Bottom line, people like things easy and free of drastic change. When some people hear that meat and dairy is bad for them and they shouldn't consume it, they choose to ignore it because they are WAY too scared to try to change that much, even if they know it will benefit them in the long run.

in my opinion..i find that most of the time it's for simple reasons..
#1- these people that we tell about dairy's harmful effects are most likely looking at us already as if we are strange because that is the label that we have been given for whatever reason. so why should they believe what we are telling them..especially when they see something that contradicts us on tv?! come on..you can't say something on tv if it isn't true, right? (hahaha)
#2- to be a vegan requires a little thing called "discipline".."will power". things that, i dont know if you have noticed but..most everyday people are lacking. that would mean they would have to give up their yummy mac and cheese? choc chip ice cream? eggs and bacon for breakfast?? ha! fat chance! (pun intended)
honestly, i find it to be rather pathetic..that people can be given the knowledge that something is extremely bad for their health, not to mention what happens to the animals that are supplying it...and yet still continue to consume it. seems like a majority of people that are not too fond of themselves if they are willing to essentially poison their bodies. and even worse than that...to hear these facts and not even stop to consider giving it up at all? seems like we are surrounded by a lot of thoughtless and electively ignorant people.

Korn
Feb 5th, 2008, 09:17 AM
to be a vegan requires a little thing called "discipline".."will power".
At least some motivation is needed in the transition phase. Once old habits are changed, I don't really think any kind will power, discipline or even motivation (!) is needed. It just becomes second nature, a new habit.

On another note, it's interesting to see that some people (who have spent years learning maths, reading, writing, walking, talking, driving a car or whatever) only wants to become vegans if "it's easy". It is easy, but others can't do the work for them... and changing old habits always needs a little effort.

VelvetDragon
Feb 6th, 2008, 07:34 AM
( Source: SeedsofDeception.com )

Last year, the Tillamook County Creamery Association moved to ban the use of a genetically engineered drug that increases milk production in cows. Soon after, the association reported that the drug's manufacturer, Monsanto Co., was pressuring Tillamook farmers to reverse the decision.

For those familiar with the history of this controversial drug, a growth hormone sold under the brand name Posilac, the intrusion by Monsanto is no surprise.

For the record, they didn't give in and Tillamook still doesn't use rBST.

I had a friend when I was in school who grew up on a large family-owned dairy farm. I would go over to her place, and saw the living conditions of the cows. It is not nearly as bad as a factory farm, but it was still very unpleasant and made the very concept of milk disgusting to me. (I'm surprised THEY drank so much milk, I guess I'm easily grossed out?) The cows were on pasture rather than in concrete stalls, as are most of the dairy farms in Oregon (including the Tillamook ones, which are a collection of family-owned dairies).

However, they took their babies away just days after they were born (after they had drank the colostrum). The babies had to live alone in little paddocks, being bottle fed powdered formula (I often went along when she did this), instead of getting to live with their moms. Male calves were sold and raised for slaughter (not veal in this case). Females were raised for the short life of dairy cows. The cows were bred each year, through artificial insemination. The cows did need to be milked multiple times each day so that they wouldn't get horribly swollen, painful udders -- remember, babies suckle on demand, keeping that from happening.

I saw a cow with mastitis (common for many nursing mothers at one time or another). They treated her for her infection with salves and antibiotics and she was kept out of milk production. They took her aside and MILKED THE PUS OUT. This was for her benefit (stripping the pus helps prevent abscesses), of course, but it was absolutely disgusting. I immediately wondered how many times a mild or just-starting case of mastitis is missed and that pus gets into the milk!

Being lactating their whole lives, the cows likely suffered from mastitis over and over, as well as cracked and swollen udders and other problems that lactating animals suffer from. All without getting to actually feed their babies!

The cows were semi-tame. They were not wild or feral, but they were not handled with love, coddled, etc. except for a few show animals. They were well conditioned to getting into line for milking and come in for food, and so on, and these things didn't seem to stress them. They weren't scared of humans. However, they were not slowly conditioned to handling necessary for hoof trimming and so on -- these things were just kind of forced on them, and it obviously stressed them out a lot. (I know some dogs who find nail trims terrifying as well. Now imagine an entire herd of cows being quickly worked through with no attempt to make it easy for them!)

This was at a family-owned dairy.

At some factory farms, cows often never see daylight. They are kept in dark concrete buildings, either in open lots, or stalls. They do not get to graze or go out on pasture.

They often dock (cut off) their tails. Why? Because their tails sometimes get infected because of the poor conditions, they're afraid their dirty tails will contaminate milk or give them infections, and because the workers don't like being swatted in the face. This is not done with any anesthetic. They crush the tail, or cut off blood flow to the tail with a band or tourniquet, and then cut off the tail with scissors (sometimes heated) or shears. The AVMA has researched the procedure and does not agree with reasons that proponents claim. (http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vetext/INF-AN/Tail-Docking-Dairy.pdf)

Factory farms also dehorn breeds that have them. When they're young, this may involve applying a caustic paste to their horn buds, searing the buds with a hot iron to kill the horn-creating cells, or actually scooping out the horn bud with a sharp or electric tool. Mistakes can cause deformed horn stubs to grow, or hurt the calf even more by damaging extra tissue around the horn, which heals even slower. The process is painful. If done when they are older, it can be dangerous, as the horn has a blood supply. They can't burn the horn off on weanlings, so they clip them very deeply. They use a saw on yearlings and adults. The animal is restrained but not sedated for the procedure.

They feed them growth hormones to make them produce more milk. Antibiotics are less commonly fed to dairy cows than some other farm animals, but it does happen, and it can end up in their milk.

pixeequeen
Feb 10th, 2008, 09:50 PM
http://style.uk.msn.com/wellbeing/healthyeating/article.aspx?cp-documentid=7486404

Interesting quite good objective write-up I thought, considering it's intended audience.

Sluggie
Feb 10th, 2008, 11:17 PM
I thought that article was really funny. In the pro-dairy section they said milk is good for preventing osteoporosis, and in the anti-dairy section they said it causes osteoporosis!

Confused? You will be ...

sandra
Feb 10th, 2008, 11:30 PM
It's good to see the bad side of dairy being highlighted for a change! :)

Fungus
Feb 10th, 2008, 11:40 PM
Interesting article .. nothing new though I guess

Roxy
Feb 10th, 2008, 11:46 PM
It's good to see the bad side of dairy being highlighted for a change! :)

Absolutely! :)

emzy1985
Feb 11th, 2008, 05:04 PM
Haha they mentioned vegans!

jinhale
Apr 14th, 2008, 02:32 PM
http://www.mad-cow.org/00/paraTB.html
and
http://alan.kennedy.name/crohns/welcome.htm

They are both very well done reports/web sites with plenty of resources. I was drinking lots of milk and eating meat years ago when I lost quite a bit of weight (20+ lbs) in just under 2 weeks and then another twenty or so through gradual loss.

I can't afford health care and apparently that worked out for me quite well as I have managed to gain quite a bit of weight back - all but 10 lbs on a vegetarian diet milk and egg free diet. To be fair I used quite a bit of plant based antibiotics like oil of oregano, licorice, coconut oil, raw garlic, etc.

I only wish I knew all this earlier; everyone has to make a buck I guess, even if millions of people get sick and die in developed nations because of preventable illness.

fondducoeur
Apr 14th, 2008, 08:59 PM
My mom has Crohn's Disease, and it is really terrible. It was after I had been vegan for a while that I learned there was a link (John Robbins mentions it in The Food Revolution). I think its really a shame that people don't realize that drinking milk can have these sorts of consequences. I have seen first hand how terrible this illness is.