About vegan babies (among other things)

[Melina]

Hi everyone, I'm new here.. vegetarian for 13 years, vegan for 2 weeks! Loving it and feeling great!
I think I'm beginning to win my husband over to veganism too!
Now I am thinking about my 16 month old daughter who we've been raising semi-vegetarian (she eats fish), I want to make the switch to feeding her vegan foods but there are so many things that concern me; first, I will need to find some recipes for her... most of the vegan dishes I make are full of nuts, seeds, crispy veggies that she cannot chew yet... but also, when she gets older, say she is invited to a birthday party and is the only vegan there... doesn't it prove to be a social issue as well, I mean, what if all her little friends think she is weird because she has this special diet? I don't want her to grow up with feelings of being different or not belonging, etc. I'd like to talk to other parents about this. We are moving soon to Dawson Creek BC, I've read some posts on here by The First Bus who lives there and doesn't seem too happy there because there are no vegans or like-minded people there, this concerns me. I guess if it's really that bad we will not stay there, but I'll have to go there to see for myself I suppose. Anyhow it's great to be here, I look forward to getting to know you all!

[Stu]

Well if I was you, I'd feed her good vegan food, and let other people (e.g. friends' parents) feed her what they want.

And why not stay in The Netherlands? It strikes me as being a great place.

[DianeVegan]

Some of the posts from ConsciousCuisine are really good (and I'm sure there are other members with good post/replies as well) and she has raised at least one vegan child, it appears. You'll find many supportive people here.

Alas, your daughter will be different because she has a beautiful mother from another country who's really intelligent. So what if she doesn't eat animals? She's going to have such a problem if she looks like you anyway :D

[Imapeach]

Welcome to veganism :)
I too was raised in a different lifestyle with a different diet to all my school friends and was teased, outcasted etc to a degree because of it. And you know what? The diet I ate even involved meat!

The point is, any child that is remotely "different" will get special attention, whether friendly or unwanted. I believe it can have a healthy effect however in the long run, as it certainly opened my eyes to the ways of the world at an early age! I hate to think what a mindless drone I would be today if I had been raised like a "generic" child!

[Melina]

Thanks for all your messages & support! I especially like what you say Imapeach, really got me thinking, I don't want her to be raised as a mindless "generic child" and yes you are right, it is good to open her eyes to the world at an early age. I really needed to hear that!
Dianecrna, thanks so much for your compliments!!!!
I'm originally from northern Quebec, Canada. I am used to having a lot of space and access to wilderness. Holland is a tiny, overpopulated country with no nature to speak of. Everything here is artificial; straight man-made canals, trees all planted in straight rows. Nothing is natural and there is no place to go, to get away from people. I am an outdoorsy person and my spirit needs wilderness to escape into, which is impossible here. It's overcrowded, the cost of living is astronomical, and frankly I cannot get used to the mentality of the people (I've been here 3 years). I find them to be extremely in-your-face, blunt, and rude. And there is a lack of respect for personal space and privacy here. We are moving because my husband got a job offer in Dawson Creek (he's Dutch but has fallen in love with Canada and wants to leave as much as I do!), he can make much more money in his profession over there, plus the cost of living is much lower, so we'll be better off in so many ways. I want my children to know what nature is. Here, they can only see animals in zoos.

[cedarblue]

Some of the posts from ConsciousCuisine are really good (and I'm sure there are other members with good post/replies as well) and she has raised at least one vegan child, it appears. You'll find many supportive people here.




try what did your vegan children eat today (http://www.veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1385) for some ideas and the vegan family house (http://www.veganfamily.co.uk/) is also a nice site to look around.

try looking through the 'kids & relationships' thread, there is loads there but lots of advice, tips and experience too! :)

[sionthebard]

Hi Melina,

My daughter who is now 8, was brought up vegan for the first 3-4 years of her life. Both her mother and I were vegan at the time and we were obviously concerned about whether or not she would be getting a healthy, balanced diet, but we were committed to raising her without feeding her on animal products. Fortunately there was very little she would not eat that we tried her with, and she particularly loved fruit, so much that there were times that she really didn't want to eat anything but things like mangos, apples, pears, bananas and wild blackberries, bilberries, raspberries and strawberries when those were in season (and a great family day out wandering through the hills & woods of West Wales looking for them). We were worried because she seemed to want to be fruitarian!

We read a few books on bringing up vegan kids, but I think that as long as you keep a good varied diet you shouldn't really have too much problem. You can introduce supplements into her foods (and indeed your own!) such as plant derived omega 3,6 or 9 oils which are apparently important for proper brain development in young children and which she might lack once you cut out the fish. Here in the U.K. you can buy organic cold-pressed oils from flax, hemp, evening primrose etc from Granovita and I am sure you will be able to find these in The Netherlands or Canada - you might have to mail order if living a bit out of the way.

Sadly my daughter now eats meat - myself and her mother separated about 3 years ago, and her mother's views are very different now to when we met. I still give my daughter mostly vegan food when she is with me, but allow her a few veggie things like croissants which she has a particular fondness for. I have no regrets about bringing her up vegan initially, she was always 'brighter' and above average in the various development tests that the health visitors used to carry out in the first couple of years of life or so and she is a very intelligent, socialable, inquistive child to this day.

The 'food at parties' issue is a complex one. I am a bit more pragmatic about that, as most parties will have vegetarian food. If you insist on her only eating vegan food, she may not get it from other parents as they might simply just not know that something is 'only' veggie rather than vegan, it might create some kind of hostility and may come across as being rude or arrogant on your part. It is one of those questions that there is no easy answer for. Just wait until she is a bit older and gets invited to a meat-eating friend's party at MacDonalds :eek: !

Anyway, I would definitely encourage you to go ahead with the vegan diet for your daughter, you can always change back if you think it isn't working. Please also feel free to get in touch if you have any questions. I don't have all the answers but will help as best I can.

Sion.

[Melina]

Thanks everyone, this has been very helpful!!!

[feline01]

There is a great book called Raising Vegan Children in a Non-Vegan World by Erin Pavlina that addresses issues like what to do at friend's houses, school, parties etc... It's available at Veg Family (www.vegfamily.com) which is a terrific resource for parents of vegan children or parents interested in veganism for their children. My kids are just beginning to eat solids meaning not jarred baby foods and they enjoy beans both whole cooked beans like chickpeas and they love lentils either in soup or stew with some peas and brown rice. Neither of them like stuff that isn't mushy so I do puree the cooked beans though Ben just ate his first whole chickpeas yesterday and he was really enjoying some whole-grain vegan cereal this past weekend. Me and my husband have accepted that our children will be different but since we're both pretty crazy in our own right-I never thought our kids would be considered "mainstream" anyway. If normal is raising a child who thinks a McDonald's french fry counts as a vegetable and ice cream is their favorite source of calcium, then I'd rather not raise a "normal" child :rolleyes: .

[kokopelli]

Hi Melina
This is just to say, tofu's a good food for babies.
And most kids love houmous.

My 3 kids have all been vegan for their whole lives and they're all fine.
It's definitely been the right diet for them!

:)

[Melina]

Feline, I'm going to get that book. My husband and I have agreed we are going to raise her vegan. What happens when she is older, and can think for herself... ? I will not be able to control what goes into her mouth all the time, and instead of her tasting non-vegan foods out of curiosity, hiding, lying, and then feeling guilty about it (which I read somewhere is what often happens)... I am going to educate her, set an example, and hope for the best. I think that is really all I can do. If she wants to eat dairy & meat when she gets older, I will not stop her. Her father is going to continue eating meat he says. I'd like to see that change but at the same time, I love him and need to accept him for who he is and where he is at. I was not always a vegan. I think people join us when they are ready and he just is not ready yet although he is eating more and more vegan and becoming more conscious.
Anyhow, I have started feeding our daughter more and more vegan foods. She's happily eating potatos, beans, lentils, peas, carrots, tofu, brown rice, lots of fruit, dates, soy milk, soy yogurt, calcium-fortified orange juice, etc, etc. Luckily I do not have a finicky eater, she loves almost everything I offer her! I am getting more and more ideas from off the internet and this forum, and it's all been good. I'm just wondering about the B12 and Omega's. I heard flax oil is a good source of Omega 3, a teaspoon a day for adults, 1/4 teaspoon for her? Is flax the same as linseed? I read it's good to add this to her juice? She is drinking B-12 fortified soy milk, still I feel I should get her a supplement just to be on the safe side? I have no idea about vitamin supplements for babies. I am going to visit the healthfood store as soon as possible and inquire about these things but if you all have any advice it would be greatly appreciated!

[feline01]

We've been giving our two about 1/2 teaspoon of organic flax seed oil a day since they were about 2 months, in their organic soy formula. Linseed oil is not the same thing. We haven't supplemented their B-12 because their formula is fortified and they were breastfeeding (up to yesterday, I weaned completely :( ). I will be looking into B-12 supplements though once they start weaning off their soy formula. From my research, I think we'll probably be giving them multivitamins once they are off of the soy formula or if it reduces significantly. Once you move to CA, it's very easy to purchase vegan children's multivitamins. Pangea (www.veganstore.com), Vegan Essentials (www.veganessentials.com) and a Different Daisy (www.differentdaisy.com) are great sources for kids vegan vitamins.

I think you have to just do what you suggested: teach them well and hope they make the right decisions when they are older. That comes to anything whether its avoiding animal products or using drugs-whatever.

I'll try to PM you a great guide for vegan children that veganblue had sent me months ago, I just have to find it on my hard-drive. :)

[John]

As far as I know, flaxseed and linseed are the same thing.

[feline01]

As far as I know, flaxseed and linseed are the same thing.
Oops, I just googled and you're right, John, it's the same :) . I guess I was thinking of furniture polish vs. Omega-3 laden oil not thinking they were the same :p .

[John]

It's a miracle plant.

[dahmin]

Thanks for all your messages & support! I especially like what you say Imapeach, really got me thinking, I don't want her to be raised as a mindless "generic child" and yes you are right, it is good to open her eyes to the world at an early age. I really needed to hear that!
Dianecrna, thanks so much for your compliments!!!!
I'm originally from northern Quebec, Canada. I am used to having a lot of space and access to wilderness. Holland is a tiny, overpopulated country with no nature to speak of. Everything here is artificial; straight man-made canals, trees all planted in straight rows. Nothing is natural and there is no place to go, to get away from people. I am an outdoorsy person and my spirit needs wilderness to escape into, which is impossible here. It's overcrowded, the cost of living is astronomical, and frankly I cannot get used to the mentality of the people (I've been here 3 years). I find them to be extremely in-your-face, blunt, and rude. And there is a lack of respect for personal space and privacy here. We are moving because my husband got a job offer in Dawson Creek (he's Dutch but has fallen in love with Canada and wants to leave as much as I do!), he can make much more money in his profession over there, plus the cost of living is much lower, so we'll be better off in so many ways. I want my children to know what nature is. Here, they can only see animals in zoos.

i agree, the flat netherlands is awful. i lived there for more than 4 years. people are rude, arrogant, hyprocritical, and racist!!! not to mention it's so vegan unfriendly, very dairy, cheesy. :mad:

[Melina]

What part of the country were you in?

[dahmin]

What part of the country were you in?

the extreme boring Eindhoven. the whole town basically runs by Philips.

[Melina]

I'm further to the north, which is even more boring! And yes it is extremely dairy-mad here. Luckily though we have a good line of soy milks, yogurts, puddings, ice creams which I believe are imported from Finland.
Well I purchashed the linseed (flax) oil for her and am giving her 1/2 teaspoon daily in her calcium fortified orange juice which she loves. I'm guessing she can't taste it! She is off the formula completely and drinking B12-fortified soy milk, getting right around her daily requirement so I am questioning whether it is wise to get her supplements. Can you get too many vitamins and is this harmful? She is eating a very well-balanced diet. I have been gathering lots of wonderful vegan recipes from the internet and she loves everything I make, as long as it is well-cooked, soft enough for her to "gum" (she only has two teeth in the front!), and presented to her in small pieces. This is working out great. My husband is being so supportive and I am so grateful for that! Thanks for all your input!

[dahmin]

we are so glad that we moved to London! it's such a wonderful vegan friendly place. so many nice vegetarian restaurants to go (but not many vegan ones).

my daughter is still on soy formula. why? she's such a picky eater. she only likes pure water; rice and raw onion sometimes. when we feed her other solid food, she can chew but just doesn't want to shallow. sometimes the food would stay in her mouth for 2 hours! it's been so difficult. however, we just don't know how she does it, she is so plum and round, growing nicely, very active and wise, but stubborn like hell! :D

[feline01]

my daughter is still on soy formula. why? she's such a picky eater. she only likes pure water; rice and raw onion sometimes. when we feed her other solid food, she can chew but just doesn't want to shallow. sometimes the food would stay in her mouth for 2 hours! it's been so difficult. however, we just don't know how she does it, she is so plum and round, growing nicely, very active and wise, but stubborn like hell! :D

Now that is interesting. My son, who only has 3 teeth, has now started chewing organic cereal and beans and eats them while my daughter, who has about 8 teeth, just plays with the food in her mouth and won't chew or swallow. She just pulls it out of her mouth again. Neither seem to overjoyed in "regular" table food, they prefer baby food. Oh well, I guess it's just a matter of time-they are only 12 1/2 months old.

[Melina]

I think it's so interesting and wonderful how even at this young age, babies are all so different.

[kokopelli]

Although linseed oil and flax seed oil ARE from the same plant, I doubt whether the linseed oil sold in hardware shops is food-grade :eek:

I don't think you'd need to give your daughter extra vitamins as long as she's getting B12 and is eating a well-balanced diet.

In my experience, kids raised as vegans don't want to eat non-vegan food once they're old enough to understand the issues anyway. My kids are very careful label-readers and get more upset than I do if they accidentally eat something with non-vegan ingredients.

[feline01]

I was talking to my husband today about how we're always thinking of what we're going to feed the kids and how to make their diets the healthiest. I realized that none of the omnivore parents I know think that way when they are feeding their children. It's more of a "if it's okay for me, it's okay for them" even if it's heavily processed, sodium and fat laden, full of artificial colors and flavors junk. I thought of my kids, who eat beans, brown rice, nutritional yeast, flax oil, fruit and veggies, oatmeal, whole-grain cereal, rice and almond milk and organic soy formula and wonder how any health professional, in their right mind, could think that sort of diet is anything but the most healthy diet out there.

In my opinion, it's almost neglect to not feed your child a well-balanced vegan diet.

[kokopelli]

In my opinion, it's almost neglect to not feed your child a well-balanced vegan diet.

I totally agree, feline :)

Well, not exactly 'neglect' maybe, but from my own experience, my kids seem to be much fitter and healthier than any omni kids we know.
It always seems weird to me that people get so uptight about parents raising kids as vegans, as if the normal diet is so wonderfully health-promoting, and veganism is somehow dangerous, when experience seems to prove the opposite is actually true.