Atkins

[John]

It's just that I've gotten kinda good at spotting scams, and Atkins has scam written all over it. To bad the health of millions is being destroyed. Oh well.

[julieruble]

Howso?

[julieruble]

Oh, I guess you shouldn't listen to me.

I never said I shouldn't listen to you. It just frustrates me when people assume people who disagree with them have not looked into their opinion.


Your reaction/response to my well-intentioned gift prooves my approach to be more than you can handle or are ready for. Most people would be in defense of what thier loved ones are doing, even if it is a poor choice, I suppose. I am the opposit. I am pained when I see people I love doing stupid, unhealthy and dangerous things.


I didn't really think I reacted badly. I'm sorry if you thought I my tone was different than I meant it to be. I was just expressing frustration. Also, I not only love my parents, but have seen their health improve as a result of the low-carb, healthy diet they are following.

I'm sorry if I offended you, but I've spent a good amount of time reading on the subject and, while I certainly am not implying that I know more about it than you, I have made what I feel is an educated decision to -- while not necessarily supporting -- not condemn people who choose this diet option, since I certainly do think it can be done healthily.

[beforewisdom]

Low-carb craze fails to cross Atlantic


- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Frances D'Emilio



Aug. 9, 2004 | ROME (AP) -- Continental low-carb? No thanks. We'll have slabs of black bread for breakfast, rigatoni with broccoli and hot pepper sauce for lunch and a plate of shrimp paella for supper.

While recipe books for diets like Atkins and South Beach are gospel for many in the United States, the American craze for low-carb versions of brownies, breads and pasta hasn't crossed the Atlantic to the Continent.


Only Britain, where junk-food habits and ample figures often mirror those of their American cousins, is turning into an island of low-carb fans.

"The Atkins Diet craze that has gripped America will not result in Germans eating more sausage and less potatoes," said Dr. Volker Pudel, director of nutrition psychology and research at the University of Goettingen in Germany.







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"Just think about German breakfast. You cannot just have eggs without the bread, and you cannot eat butter without spreading it on bread. It just won't work in Germany, this diet," said Pudel in a telephone interview.

One reason for Europe's snub of low-carb diets like Atkins and South Beach might be need -- or lack of it.

Europeans like to walk, even when they have no place to go.

An entire European family could make a picnic of canapés from the staggering high pile of cold cuts in just one New York deli sandwich. Italians return from abroad stunned by cherished U.S. dining habits like all-you-can eat restaurants and doggy bags for all you can't eat.

"To give up a plate of pasta for a diet is, in my view, blasphemy," said
Andrea Pargallo, a bartender in Napoleone bar on Piazza Venezia, as he
served customers their morning cappuccino and cornetto (brioche).

"The Mediterranean diet is the best in the world. Indeed, we don't have all so many obesity problems like our friends across the ocean," said Pargallo, 31.

He was referring to Italy's staple diet, praised by nutritionists and built heavily around grains like rice and pasta and fruit and vegetables.

In France, where natives walk dogs with one hand and clutch a white-flour baguette in the other, pharmacist Niama Wallah said she was unfamiliar with the cutting-carbs approach to weight loss.

"But with the level of obesity that you have in America, it doesn't surprise me that people are going to such lengths to diet," said Wallah, who runs a pharmacy off the Champs-Elysées in Paris.

With Europeans so loyal to their linguine and so faithful to their pommes frites, European food manufacturers and supermarket chains haven't been plunging into low-carb product lines.

"We don't have low-carbohydrate products," said Omer Pignatti, a spokesman for Conad, a chain of supermarkets in Italy. "There isn't any on the Italian market and we don't foresee any such initiatives."

Surveys seem to bear out his assessment.

"We've seen low-carb to be an entirely U.S. phenomenon," said Lynn
Dornblaser, director of consulting services for London-based Mintel
International Group, Ltd.

Dornblaser was among those presenting a country-by-country survey of
low-carb products at a food industry meeting in Las Vegas earlier this
month.

In the United States, the number of new low-carb products ballooned from two in 1999 to 1,329 so far this year, the survey found.

Continental Europe saw few such products being introduced until this year, when a U.S.-based company which sells low-carb bagels, buns, cheesecakes and other products, began offering its fare via the Internet to Europe.

In Britain, new low-carb products sharply rose from five last year to 159 in 2004. Among the items are "no-bread" sandwiches sold by a popular sandwich chain, Prêt à Manger.

"We did this very much in response to basically the low-carb fever that was sort of coming over here," Nellie Nichols, Prêt à Manger's head of food, said of the product, which is sold in square boxes to resemble sandwiches. "They are going down very, very well."

"Carbs have become the devil's work, haven't they?" said Matt Hind, 25, a trainee lawyer buying his lunch in central London. "I think people are
always looking for quick fixes when it comes to weight."

With obesity a matter for mounting concern in Britain, the tabloids there sprinkle their pages with names of celebrities going low-carb, including, reportedly, singer Robbie Williams, former Spice Girl Geri Halliwell, actress Minnie Driver and food writer/celebrity chef Nigella Lawson.

Asked why low-carbs haven't caught on in most of Europe, Dornblaser, who
works out of Mintel's Chicago office, said Europeans "have got a better
understanding of portion control," as well as balance and variety in diet.

"In the U.S., rightly or wrongly, we like to have a magic pill."

---

EDITOR'S NOTE: Correspondents in London, Paris, Warsaw, Madrid, Amsterdam
and Frankfurt contributed to this report.

[Mystic]

I was in Hawaii just over a week ago (I am based in Australia), and I could not believe how carb obsessed they were over there. Every menu and every second item in the supermarket I saw had low carb this and no carb that, and 'only 7 carbs per serve' labelled all over it. I also saw a lady remove her chicken and salad from her sandwich, eat that and then she was licking the mayonnaise off the bread. HOW SAD!!!!

What I also found sad is that when I got back home, I noticed how carb obsessed we are here too. The other day I saw Atkins food lines in my health food shop...a health food??? I don't think so. Subway has also released its low/no carb menu alternative, and I overheard a girl in my lecture at uni saying that the best dinner for weight loss is just having meat and salad (the salad bit is ok, but where do the potatoes, rice and pasta fit in?) - Personally I cannot form a meal without carbs.

I think the whole world needs to take the example of the Europeans and just realise that the reason they are fat is because they eat too much of everything!!!! Having Europeans as Ancestors (Polish), I grew up with a love for thick dense breads, hearty soups with potatoes and barley...and no one in my family is fat...and I have a BIG family!!!!

Sorry all...I am just passionate because I love my carbs and they should not be blamed for peoples inability to control their food intake (or the fact that their carb intake consists of supersized french fries and butter laden white bagels which are the size of a potion of 6slices of bread!)

[Pembroke]

I abhor the atkins diet with every thread of my existance :mad:

The last line of that article is so true..... "In the U.S., rightly or wrongly, we like to have a magic pill." Hmm, could the answer to our problems be right in front of us? a.) too much junk food b.) lack of excersize

Low-carb does NOT belong in the health food aisle...... Eergh, frustrating.

[gertvegan]

The low carb craze is here, though I don't really pay an awful lot of attention to it. The supermarkets are very dominent in Britain with the likes of Asda ( Walmart owned ) , compared to other European countries and British shoppers have become very reliant on them. This may be a reason why fatkins has taken off. Supermarkets are evil.

[Gorilla]

i can't say i've really noticed that many low-carb products for sale in supermarkets, but i rarely shop in them nowadays. i know Boots (high street chemist) sell a lot of Atkins products, like snack bars and chilled salads - but why anyone would want to pay £3.50 for a plastic bowl full of lettuce leaves and some scabby looking bits of meat i don't know!

i've also seen low-carb chocolate bars such as Kit-Kats in a few shops. they're about 5 times the price of a regular choc bar! do people really crave choc that much?! The low-carb Coke is stupid too, as it has less calories than a regular Coke, but still more than a Diet Coke which has practically none - but as they market it as low-carb they can charge a fortune for it.

it *is* all about a quick-fix, faddy diet that's gonna give everyone some serious health problems in the future...but how can you get that across to the sort of people who say, "i don't care if Atkins kills me, at least i'll die thin" ???? :(

[harpy]

I mostly agree about Atkins, but I think there is something to be said for watching the amount of carbohydrate you eat, or maybe rather the type of carbohydrate (glycemic index/load etc). I used to do the thing of basing meals around pasta, rice etc but I have now upped the vegetable: pasta/rice ratio (so it's vegetables with pasta rather than vice versa) and make sure I have some beans or nuts with it, and feel a bit better for it. I often used to get ravenous and lightheaded a couple of hours after eating and now I don't.

Some continental European countries apparently have a diet which is a bit lower in carbohydrate, or certainly refined carbohydrate, than the typical British or American ones. For example, I gather that Italians usually tend to have their pasta as a starter than as a main course, and the article also mentions black bread which is presumaby rye bread and a bit better for you than the sliced white stuff that sells in vast quantities in Britain.

[Artichoke47]

There's a store in Indianapolis that says "Lo Carb" or something as the sign. That must be the name of it. I shake my head and laugh every time I go by.

[webster]

Ditto, ditto, ditto - It makes me so glad I don't live in the States anymore. I think it would drive me crazy if I lived over there now. (Or worse yet, I would probably be as daft enough as everyone else and couldn't avoid getting caught up in it ...)

[l337_v3g4n_1]

heh, I saw that some time ago, I watched all of the episodes on the page... that foamy the squirrel is brilliant. if you want to see more episodes that were removed from the site because of bandwidth, go to www.scarysquirrel.com it's somehere in there. can't find it? google, man!

[l337_v3g4n_1]

...you fat bastards.


heh. when I was watching it the first time my mom heard it and thought it was south park... she rushed to see.


...you fat bastards

[Roxy]

lmao

[l337_v3g4n_1]

excuse me, mabe a bit off topic, but does lmao stand for "laugh my ass off"? and then lmfao would stand for... "laugh my f***ing ass off... right? :D

[Roxy]

You got it :D

[Phoenix20]

LOL- That was so funny and cute! That squirrel is my hero. (especially at the end)

[l337_v3g4n_1]

there is a singing episode...

[gertvegan]

HERES (http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041031/NEWS/410310373/1002/NEWS01) an update on the anti-Atkins lawsuit filed by 54-year-old Jody Gorran, supported by the pcrm, who plan to keep bringing lawsuits until one makes it into the trial stage.

[phillip888]

"This idea that "maybe calories, not carbohydrates, are to blame for our obesity epidemic," and that low-carb diets work solely by lowering calories, is unfounded"

Holy crap! I just read this and almost did a backflip. So apparentyly the laws of physics DO NOT APPLY when lobbying for atkins or the beef industry, or whomever owns your ethics today. Please try to keep in mind that the average IQ here is above room temperature, so such statements are especially transparent. Trying to paint meat as 'flavourul' and intice people with cheesecake isn't going to work either. Even people reading this site interested in veganism (your primary target I assume) will still see through this stuff. People who become interested in veganism or vegetarianism are usually on the road to rejecting corporate/government subversion, and have a heightened awareness of such tactics, especially when they are in transition from one lifestyle to the other.

Gertvegan: I hope Gorrans case gets a lot more publicity that this, especially the motivation for the lawsuit. The fact is corporations with the philip morris like ethic need to be sued out of all their profits plus some, because quite simply that's the only way they percieve the world $$.


I'm hoping that there is some sort of government action against lobbying corporations that work for atkins and other corps too. Why is it that endangering the lives of people through known deception is anything but a criminal offense? Because in the US corporations can not be held responsible for their criminal actions due to legislaton by our corporate run government.

[julieruble]

Some "lobbyist" : one who doesn't even post anymore. I'm not trying to entice anyone ... ESPECIALLY not trying to entice vegans to eat meat. That's ridiculous. I'm trying to entice vegans not to make ridiculous generalizations about something just because all they've heard is the hype.

By the way, Phillip, I have to admit seeing your posts makes me cringe. I'm so sick of hearing how I, a 20-year-old English/Biology student at a college in NC, is a lobbyist for an industry I hate that I could really gag.

[veganblue]

Hiya Julieruble! I was alarmed when I read that your parents have been in ketosis for six months! Ketosis is the protein breakdown process that CC spoke of and is terribly unhealthy in the long term (greater than 6 weeks).

The breakdown of protein for energy is very ineffecient in the sense of energy available per aminoacid brokendown -which is why there is weightloss during the Atkin's diet. The toxic byproducts are ok in small amounts in the short term since the body is amazingly adaptive but ammonia is released which must be oxidised to urea otherwise it will do great damage to living cells. This requires calcium ions which will be taken from muscles and bone tissue. In the long term the great danger is bone density reduction.

I hope that your parents have lost the weight they desired and returned to a healthy balanced diet plus bone density stimulating free-weight exercises. If not they risk osteoporosis, far more difficult to address at older ages. If they are continuing the diet I suggest that they get a checkup for bone density at their GP - if they haven't already.

Just a bit worried for your parents.

Atkin's does work in the short term - but even a change in habit totally unrelated to diet has been shown to reduce weight. A friend successfully formed a vegan Atkin's diet and apart from a few side effects felt it was useful but found it hard to get as much protein as was deemed necessary from a vegetable based diet. I can only see this as a good thing. A varied vegan diet is rather hard to get wrong if you are eating a mix of grains, nuts, fruit and veg in all their wonderful diversity. The key is diversity of course.

[julieruble]

What a polite post. After being called a lobbyist and such, it was refreshing. I don't have much time now, but I'll reply later! Thanks for your concern, veganblue.

[ConsciousCuisine]

I have been studying Atkins and other diets for over 14 years. I have read hundreds and hundreds of studies on the related subjects as they relate to health, weight loss and nutrition. I have worked with hundreds of people who have followed the low-carbohydrate (75% of them on Atkins) interviewing them, monitoring their cholesterol, blood sugar levels, homocysteine, diet, activity levels, diet and so on. The results are harrowing and not at all suprising.

I have worked with clients in the last few years, designing a "low carb" Vegan Nutrition Plan to lower the risks inherent in the traditional Atkins-style diet; you will noticew I say "lower the rsiks", not eliminate or remove.

Again, I cannot state this any more clearly than I have before; the "atkins" diet is toxic, unhealthy and creates conditions in the body that will set one up to succumbing to all of the major "lifestyle" illnesses that plague Americans- high blood pressure, heart disease, high cholesterol, diabetes, gout, kidney disease, dental issues and more! I am not just talking out of my a** here, people. I am a Nutritionist who has studied this topic and put much energy into looking at this issue from every angle.

PLEASE DO NOT *EVER* FOLLOW THE "ATKINS" PLAN AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE YOU CARE ABOUT TO DO THE SAME!

[julieruble]

I don't think many folks here are in danger of deciding to go the Atkins route.

Cardiovascular indicators for heart disease were actually improved in short term studies of the Atkins diet. And diabetes, especially, is supposed to fare very well when carbohydrates are lower. But thank you for your experienced and educated opinion.