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Korn
May 27th, 2005, 08:30 PM
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/life/2005/01/07/images/2005010700080201.jpg


From http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/life/2005/01/07/stories/2005010700080200.htm

A secret the Himalayas hold
Murli Menon

Some excerpts (read the whole article, it's interesting!!):



There are about 1,000 descendants of the Aryan tribes and they live scattered around Gilgit, Hunza, Kargil and Leh. Being nature worshippers, they celebrate the Bononah (nature) festival and are strict vegans, which means they are not only strictly vegetarian but also don't consume milk or milk products
[...]
The few thousand Brok-pa Aryans have over 5,000 years lived in these hostile terrain at 15,000 ft altitude, subsisting on a vegan diet. Music and dance are a way of life for them. Both men and women wear colourful costume, decorating their hair with flowers, and are full of joi de vivre. They live in harmony with nature, and are cheerful and stress-free despite living in small rock shelters. They trek long distances.
[...]
The weather in September is pleasantly cold, though temperatures in January can plummet to -20 degrees Celsius. There are an unusually large number of Aryans above 70 years. Many are active even at 90.

DoveInGreyClothing
May 27th, 2005, 11:06 PM
I often tell people who say things like "veganism is a new fad" that it's been practised by eatern religions for thousands of years, BEFORE B12 supplements (which are really only needed in the western world due to hygeine and modern farming methods anyway). Thanks for the link, Korn.

celtic rose
May 28th, 2005, 06:01 AM
They are truly at one with the Earth. Wonderful.

Korn
May 29th, 2005, 07:32 PM
This site has another picture, (but the woman looking into the camera doesn't look like she has got blue eyes and fair complexion).
http://www.culturalportraits.com/CPIndia/People/Drokpa%20Women.htm
I have been trekking in the Himalayas before, and taken many photos (but from another area). I promise that if I do it again, I'll visit these people and post more pictures. I planned to go there once when I was in the area, but was told that if I did, I had to spend several months up there because there would be no way to get back until the snow melted next spring. Not that I would mind spend a few months with these people...
http://www.culturalportraits.com/Photos/Drokpa%20Women-L.jpg

kriz
May 29th, 2005, 08:04 PM
I would love to learn more about this beautiful culture. :)

l337_v3g4n_1
May 30th, 2005, 04:01 PM
sounds like heaven

beautiful

Pilaf
Jun 16th, 2005, 04:58 AM
This is wonderful information. I can use it if a vegan argument arises in another forum out there. So many people are under the misconception that veganism is some sort of fad.

Realfood Mary
Jun 16th, 2005, 08:33 AM
That is really beautiful. Is there more information on them anywhere? Like what do they wear? Was the guy who wrote it black by the way? Because from my end of the melanin spectrum they look pretty brown!

forest
Jun 17th, 2005, 05:25 PM
What a wonderful article. I'm going to refer people to it whenever I get the 'veganism isn't natural' and 'we're meant to be omnivores' garbage. It proves the point perfectly that by living in harmony with nature and not trashing the land with intensive farming and pesticides we can be natural vegans without having to supplement with B12 tablets - Just as nature intended.

Alistar
Aug 24th, 2005, 11:18 AM
but the woman looking into the camera doesn't look like she has got blue eyes and fair complexion
http://www.culturalportraits.com/Photos/Drokpa%20Women-L.jpg
Is she supposed to have blue eyes and fair complexion?

Kiran
Aug 24th, 2005, 11:20 AM
I would love to learn more about this beautiful culture. :)

You need to go to northern india.. I am indian but it is such a big country that I never could go that north. I wish I could live amonst those vegans. I recon they are raw vegans or something.

vegandolly
Aug 24th, 2005, 11:43 AM
"a tribe that prides itself on being racially pure Aryan"

I feel uncomfortable about this in terms of hitler's stance on the subject.

Are the two things unconnected are is there justification for my discomfort.

I am confused.

abrennan
Aug 24th, 2005, 12:26 PM
"a tribe that prides itself on being racially pure Aryan"

I feel uncomfortable about this in terms of hitler's stance on the subject.

Are the two things unconnected are is there justification for my discomfort.

I am confused.

Hitler and his mates stole the word Aryan and the Swastika. The Indians around the world have suffered from this for generations. There is no link.
Aryan is a millenia old sanskrit term that means NOBLE ones. It is thought to originally refer to the peoples who spoke a group of langauges now called proto indo-european from which it is thought all indian and euro languages evolved.

The Buddha calles his group of monastic and lay followers the Arya Sangha which means the Noble Community, or more literally the Holy Association.

The earliest known use of the term is in the Rg Veda (Rig Veda) which is the oldest text known to humanity. Using astronomical observations contained within it has been dated as being 10,000 years old.

The Nazis stole the word and tried to develop a myth to underpin their attempt to rule europe. They invented the idea that they were destined to do it. If they had won it would now be what was written in history book. As it stands it's real intent is forgotten by many but the symbols have, in the west anyway. maintained the erroneous meanings in many peoples minds probably due to movies that continue to use them.

rest assured there is no real connection.

here is an interesting link to a description at wikpedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan)

Antony
Australia mate

Korn
Aug 24th, 2005, 04:03 PM
"a tribe that prides itself on being racially pure Aryan"

I feel uncomfortable about this in terms of hitler's stance on the subject.

Are the two things unconnected are is there justification for my discomfort.

I am confused.

Of course nobody who is into non-harming want to be associated with nazism; from the pictures, if they are authentic, these people doesn't look like what the nazis have described as Aryans either.

If an old nazi leader liked carrots, we can't avoid talking about carrots 60 years after his death just because he happened to have an interest for carrots. :) The same goes for references to certain tribes, races or tahini brands - and it's not that vegans 'like' these people because they belonged to that tribes. There is no link at all between nazi ideals and the vegan movement; like Antony wrote, they just 'stole' the word.

Swastikas, which looks like the nazi-symbol (but are different), can be seen all over India, and nobody seem to be bothered with the fact that the Nazis try to 'steal' it. We shouldn't be bothered if someone we definitely have no links to are associated with a word that simply means 'noble', or with a tribe that possibly are ancestors from Aryans and most likely live on a vegan diet. :)

I'm surprised there has been no VHS-comments a la 'Until there is research showing that members of this tribe have MMA levels between .07 to .27 Ámol/l, the members of these tribes should not be considered healthy vegans' on other sites yet.:)


*(VHS = Vegan Hypochondriac Syndrome)

Gliondrach
Sep 9th, 2005, 10:38 AM
Some people in the area of the North West Frontier, as it used to be called, have blue-grey eyes. My father saw them when he served there with the Army. Some people believe that they are the descendants of Alexander The Great's army. If they are, they won't have inherited their blue eyes from that source. Most Greeks and Balkan people have brown eyes.

I've been to India and Afghanistan. In Afghanistan I looked for people with blue eyes but didn't see any. I plan to go to India again one day. I'll have to take a look at this area.

Swastikas were also used by the ancient Scandinavians.

snaffler
Sep 9th, 2005, 11:08 AM
This is truly amazing and I am so proud of people like this who live away from the traps of regular society in a peacful cruelty freeway.

Just remember if any person ever says again that veganism pah just another new faddy diet....reference this story korn put up.

Kam
Sep 9th, 2005, 11:28 AM
I'd love to visit!!!

By the way, do we know that they don't use animal products to wear, or are they dietary vegans? Not that I have a problem with a tribe with limited resources using the fleece of anmials that have died naturally to keep warm, I am just interested to know.

Korn
Sep 9th, 2005, 12:03 PM
IBy the way, do we know that they don't use animal products to wear, or are they dietary vegans?
I don't know.

Here is some related stuff from the World Vegetarian Congress (http://www.ivu.org/congress/wvc53/texts.html) in 1953:



Vegetarianism in Ancient Cultures
DASTUR F. A. BODE


DASTUR BODE, a High Priest of the Zoroastrian religion, explained that culture means right living and includes a proper diet. Though our cultures may appear different we are not divided by them for there is an inner culture revealed by self knowledge and we must grow in unity through self realisation.


When we come to know that the macrocosm and the microcosm are the same in essence we see that we are not mere creatures and -brothers but associates of the Creator.


Speaking of the Aryan culture, the oldest in the world Bode said, "the word Aryan meant one who is spiritually awake" and that the Zoroastrian religion taught the unity of life many centuries before Christ. It was not true that they worshippes the outer physical fire but the inner fire of the heart, spirit and life. Zoroastrianism taught that life cannot be produced from on-life - therefore it should be held sacred. The Christian commandment "Thou shalt not kill" was translated from Zoroastrian teachings.


"There is no conflict in nature" said Dr. Bode, "it is harmonious -and faithful at all times. Only when man comes along is there conflict. Good and evil are conditions within us-if we wish to be good we have the opportunity and no one makes us kill animals and men.


Referring to India he said the country was once totally vegetarian for religious reasons and many family's to-day trace their vegetarianism back 2,000 to 3,000 years. No meat-eaters are allowed to enter their homes, so strongly do they feel about the evil of flesh-eating. Indians are fortunate in having in Dr. Prasad, their President, a man who lives a simple life and is a strict vegetarian. Only under the influence of western "civilisation," Mohammedans, Arabs, during the last few hundred years have the traditional ideas been forsaken.


Buddha taught Ahimsa, the doctrine of non-hurting and saying that sorrow is the result of the desire in man creating causes for which he suffers. We must learn not to desire, not to exploit. Animals may need to be protected and fed but not killed.


In modern times Mahatma Gandhi has started the return of India to an appreciation of the sacredness of life, by example and teaching. If we can feel equally for each one, however low in the scale of consciousness, we shall turn the earth into a paradise.

LittleNellColumbia
Sep 9th, 2005, 12:18 PM
Damn these vegan chickadees are hot! nah im just tired and being a nutta, (not that they aren't hot) but yeh this sound awesome and i want to go and see this place of heavenlyness

Gliondrach
Sep 9th, 2005, 03:29 PM
We can travel in India together, Happy. I'll meet you in Delhi. There's a nice little restaurant near Connaught Circus. Superb dahl.

LittleNellColumbia
Sep 9th, 2005, 11:36 PM
Sounds like a plan! I havnt yet tried dahl.....:D

Kiran
Sep 10th, 2005, 01:05 AM
Sounds like a plan! I havnt yet tried dahl.....:D

Yeah.. travel all the way from australia to India just to try Dahl... It is a very rare commodity and you can't make it in Australia. It can be made only in India. So people travel from all over the world to India to try Dahl. :p :)

catmogg
Sep 10th, 2005, 01:06 AM
This is so interesting. Perhaps we should have a thread about veagn 'communities' all over the world. Does anyone live in a vegan commune?

Kiran
Sep 10th, 2005, 01:10 AM
This is so interesting. Perhaps we should have a thread about veagn 'communities' all over the world. Does anyone live in a vegan commune?

I used to live in a large vegetarian community in India. Not vegan though. Well.. that is not an interesing fact because in India you will find vegetarian societies all over the country. No big deal.

But, it is really an interesting fact that there is a complete vegan community. That is cool. I don't think there are any more complete significantly populated vegan societies anywhere else.

LittleNellColumbia
Sep 10th, 2005, 02:00 AM
Yeah.. travel all the way from australia to India just to try Dahl... It is a very rare commodity and you can't make it in Australia. It can be made only in India. So people travel from all over the world to India to try Dahl. :p :)

Yup why not, it would be a very enlightening dahl experience:p
Im a bad cook:D