Vegan Raw Food

[Mr Pearcore]

One acts defensive when one has something to defend.
Get off your high horse and calm down.

"I used to be a Vegan who only cared about the animals - however, my health issues are now catching up with me, and that gives you various dilemas, such as whether or not to take regular medication, (animal tested). I hate the thought that I am then perpetuating the whole animal-abuse cycle, and impacting on the environment."

and if you are being a raw foodist to help the environment as some have claimed to be the reason, then you would not drive etc, because if you thought instead of shooting then asking questions later, youd have realised that is pollution.

I am off for dinner now. Cheerio.

[foxytina_69]

first of all sweetie im not on a high horse nor was i not calm. i was asking u a few questions, i dont see how that isnt calm, and yet i dont know where you are getting the "one acts defensive" from because i wasnt trying to defend myself at all :\

second of all i see her quote, and yet i do not see where she stated she needed pills because she was vegan, nor do i see anything about vitamin tablets. she was simply questioning taking medication regularaly.

pfc never said she wanted to be a raw foodist for the environment, she said it was about her health, but that in doing so it DOES help the environment. considering we are in 2005, some people need to drive, there is nothing we can do to change that. one can do only as much as one can do, and no more than that.

have a nice dinner :D ;)

[PinkFluffyCloud]

Excuse me!
I have been Vegetarian for about 17 years, Vegan for about 5 of them. Of course I don't need medication for my Veganism, but you can be an UNHEALTHY Vegan. I explained that I smoked and drank, and generally did not take care of myself, I was ONLY Vegan for the animal side of things, that is why I have certain health issues now. I am not seriously ill or anything, but just because I am now eating well and taking care of myself, the problems caused by my PAST behaviour cannot be erased.:(
Possibly, if I wasn't Vegan, I would now be in a worse state! :o

Mr. Pearcore, what a pity you have to be sarcastic! I do have a car which I use as little as possible. I am moving soon to somewhere I will have enough space to grow almost all my Organic food, thus eliminating a lot of my present worries. I will not need to go shopping, and I will live near to the local school, so my son can walk in each day. I intend to live very simply, which will make me feel better, anyway! :)

................And it sure felt like you were biting my head off, asking about Raw Foodism, then saying you didn't CARE who did it!! If you don't care about it, why ask???? :rolleyes:

[PinkFluffyCloud]

BTW, Mr. Pearcore, your attitude reminds me of people who are anti-Vegans, the way you mis-quote me. :mad: I NEVER said I needed medication FOR my Veganism, being Vegan was the only good aspect of my lifestyle before. But it is perfectly possible to be Vegan and eat too much chocolate, bread, sugar and fat, unfortunately. Luckily, I woke up to what I was doing! :)

You are the one who actually sounds defensive to me! I am always honest, I don't need to feel defensive - EXCEPT when people mis-quote me and twist my words. Why would anyone need to take medication FOR their Veganism?? What a very odd thing to say. :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[foxytina_69]

i agree pfc. sometimes people feel threatened because of the thought that their own lifestyle may not be as good as they thought it was. :rolleyes:

[PinkFluffyCloud]

Yes, and thanks for leaping to my defence!
I don't think I was ever being 'Holier-than-thou', because I am not even a successful Raw Foodist (yet!).

[1984]

Hey Eve, check out this article , I believe this is where I heard that story from.
http://www.living-foods.com/articles/whyswitch.html I believe it says that our bodies produce only a finite number of enzymes and eating cooked food draws from this supply and that aging is just simply running out of enzymes. Very interesting! I wonder if it's true.

[eve]

Thanks for that url, it makes interesting reading, and the FAQs are worth a read too. I don't know about
ageing is just simply running out of enzymes as there are many changes that go on in our bodies over the years.

There gave no references for their statement that our bodies produce only a finite number of enzymes, and that they disappear as we eat cooked food. I'd also read that our brains have a finite number of cells that die off and cannot be replaced. Then later I read it was all in the synapses, and they don't die off.

Someone earlier used a phrase about being 'perfect' with raw foods. Well, I think it is beneficial to be satisfied with the amount of rawfoods we consume. I don't aim for perfection, and in fact 100 percent raw, would mean no marmite, homas, tahini, etc - even though they are ingested in very small quantities, plus the occasional warm drink. Though I've given up the soyaccino at the shopping mall, as I have better uses for the $3 a pop!

I ignore postings by Mr Pearcore these days, as he is too high and mighty for me.

Foxytine_69, I don't think I've ever posted to the 'what did u eat today thread' - but perhaps just out of interest since you ask, I'll start tomorrow! :)

[foxytina_69]

:D

[snivelingchild]

Why do so many people prefer vegetables to be cooked? I like every vegetable better raw (except, like beans, which I don't eat when eating raw). Personally, I think the most atrocious invention by man kind is cooked spinach, that green sloshy slush. :eek: Even carrots, a very delicious crunchy food, are eaten cooked, taking all the flavor and texture out. I don't understand it.

Am I the only one that thinks veggies taste better raw?

[Panda]

I Don't understand why either. The only vegies I eat cooked are potatos and pumpkin and occasioinally zuchini but I have been eating that raw lately its pretty yummy. I eat sweet corn raw to now. Everything just tastes sooo much better raw. I can't eat cooked broccoli anymore to mushy.

[MzNatural]

I prefer eating vegetables raw. Occasionally I eat them lightly steamed, sautéed, or sometimes baked. I am between 70-80% raw most days.

[Aurora]

I agree. Most vegetables are better raw. In fact I can't stand cooked carrots.

[phillip888]

Mr Pearcore appears to be a baiter (is he a pro or what?). Hey, this did turn out to be a good thread about the benefits of raw food though, well except for the insults and really lame stereotypical insinuation.

The enzyme thing is overemphasized in raw circles (especially raw fad opportunists). Your body produces enzymes until the day you die. They're not particularly complex, and raw food doesn't usually add/assist digestive enzymes to your existing ones in the way many people seem to imply. The enzymes in raw food are for the function of the plant. In fruit some enzymes convert carbs into simple glucose and fructose. In that respect they sure make digestion easier because it's easier to digest glucose than complex carbs (especially indigestible or toxic ones found in many unripe fruit), but they certainly are not relevant once that fruit is being broken down in your digestive system.


Oh, and straight edge seems to come up often in vegan discussion forums. Is that an attempt to group progressive groups or something? I'm mostly raw and take good care of my body, but I would never dismiss a nice magic brownie as an ethical wrong, nor would I consider abstinence healthy or ethically judge-able. Last time I checked straight edge was a reaction to consumerism and fascism, not just a form of veganism.

[phillip888]

i trust mother nature, and feel its right to reach for something created by earth and found in nature. after all, mother nature created humans. things that were meant for us to eat, shouldnt need to be altered in any way to eat them. thats just the way i feel :o

Well, there are some not-so-well paid tele-marketers gone PR/Lobbyists out there that know you're right, and that is very bad for their owners/employers. Seriously though, this thread is classic and follows the 'The Center For Consumer Freedom' disinformation methods to a tee (fear first, then labels and accusations, then retreat when it's time for facts to be brought to the table). It's unfortunately very effective. If you'd like to learn more take a peek at sourcewatch.org. They have a fair amount of information on the front and their tactics.

Oh, and raw food rocks. Ppppt...

[eve]

Thanks phillip888, interesting topics, though I've not finished reading them all. :)

[Wildflower]

Personally, I think the most atrocious invention by man kind is cooked spinach, that green sloshy slush. :eek:


No kidding! Whenever someone tells me they "don't like spinach" I say, "Well...have you had it fresh and uncooked? Like in a salad?"

I like everything raw. cooked tomatos don't bother me, but everything else is better raw. Yummy raw veggies!

[snivelingchild]

I know! I forced myself to eat some cooked carrots grandparents made especially for us and it was horrible. I felt so bad I still ate them all though.

I completely agree about the spinach. My boyfriend told me he hated spinach, now he eats FRESH organic spinach in MANY salads. :)

He also used to hate brocolli.

[Gorilla]

i'm a 'weird' person who doesn't like raw vegetables ;)

i like raw carrots and salad stuff (e.g. lettuce, tomatoes etc.) but that's about it, everything else has to be steamed at least - and i HAVE tried to like them raw, honest!!!! most raw veg is too bitter and crunchy for my taste.

[Mystic]

Raw & Cooked: Capsicum (aka bell pepper), SPINACH :D tomato, cabbage, cabbage, carrots, mushrooms, spring onions, fresh herbs (basil, coriander etc...), snow peas, sugar-snap peas, green beans and cauliflower
Never Raw: Potatoes, pumpkin, sweet potatoes, eggplant, zucchini, broccoli, bok choy (and all Asian greens), corn, regular onion, parsnip (actually parsnip is inedible in any form), turnips, beetroot, swedes, celery (and the celery has to be hidden)
Strictly Raw: Lettuce, cucumbers, sprouts, fennel

[John]

I like raw broccoli but I have to force myself to eat it when it's cooked.

[Kiva Dancer]

I like a mixture of raw and cooked. Nutritionally, there are some compounds that are best when cooked and some that are best in its raw state so I like to go for a mixture of each to get the full benefit.

[phillip888]

I just found something interesting about mucous plaque. It's the carrier of intrinsic factor (the compound used for absorption of protein based vitamins like B12). In poor or damaged digestive systems (like ones damaged by diet, or that are fed a poor diet) it builds up because it can't be absorbed in to the wall of the small intestine. When it reaches an excessive volume it becomes a matrix for holding composting food. This allows carcinogens to stay in your small intestine for extended periods of time, while blocking nutrients. It apparently builds up severely with the ingestion of processed foods and dairy milk. It can be mostly removed by roughage over a period of time, but impacted matter that has been protected by it is not removed easily.

Interesting stuff. Ah, I'd claim I'm not selling anything, but you know, I don't need to. After all I'm not being paid to be here.

[veganblue]

That's great Phillip! Would you be able to post the link to that information since I have been having difficulty finding anything on mucoid plaque, what it is made of etc. Any assistance would be very welcome.

[veganblue]

Vegetarians Have Healthy Bones Despite Low Bone Mass (http://www.medpagetoday.com/tbindex.cfm?tbid=783)


Raw food veggies are thinner but healthier (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1065017.cms)

Plant diet may not be bad for bones (http://www.foodnavigator.com/news/news-ng.asp?n=59013-plant-diet-may)


29/03/2005 - People who eat no animal products and only raw plant-based foods may have healthier bones than previously thought, shows US research.

Researchers at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis studied 18 strict raw food vegans, aged from 33 to 85, and found that although their bones were light in weight, they may be healthy.

The vegans, who had been on the diet for an average of 3.6 years, had lower body mass indices than a comparable group following a more typical western diet, including refined carbohydrates, animal products and cooked food.

They also had significantly lower bone mass in important skeletal regions such as the hip and lumbar spine, sites where low bone mass often means osteoporosis and fracture risk. But they did not have other biological markers that typically accompany osteoporosis, shows the study, published in the 28 March issue of the Archives of Internal Medicine (vol 165, pp 1-6).

"For example, it is clear from research that higher rates of bone turnover equate to higher risk of fracture," said lead author Dr Luigi Fontana. "But in these people, although their bone mass is low, their bone turnover rates are normal."

In other areas too, the raw food group appeared to be healthier than the conventional diet group. They had less inflammation, indicated by low levels of C-reactive protein, which is made by the liver as a response to inflammation in the body. They also had lower levels of IGF-1, one of the most important growth factors regulated by calorie and protein intake. High levels of IGF-1 have been linked to risk of breast cancer and prostate cancer.

And in spite of the fact that the raw food group did not drink milk or eat cheese, they had higher vitamin D levels than people on a typical, Western diet. Fontana attributed the vitamin D levels to sun exposure.

"These people are clever enough to expose themselves to sunlight to increase their concentrations of vitamin D," he said. "I thought vitamin D might be a problem for them, but it was not."

Fontana also measured levels of the hormone leptin, which seems to play an important role in the regulation of bone metabolism. In some transgenic mice, low leptin levels are related to high bone mass. But interestingly, the raw food dieters had both low levels of leptin and low bone mass.

In short, the people on the raw food diet are lighter with lower body fat. They have less bone, but they have normal markers of bone turnover, higher-than-normal vitamin D and very low levels of leptin and inflammatory markers.

Fontana added however that the team is not yet sure whether the vegans’ bones are healthy or not. Current clinical measurements would indicate that many in this group have osteoporosis or less severe bone loss called osteopenia. But with low levels of inflammation, normal bone turnover and high vitamin D, Fontana says the usual clinical parameters may not apply.

"For example, post-menopausal, frail women with osetoporosis have low bone mass and an increased risk of fracture," he said. "But they also have increased circulating levels of inflammatory molecules called cyotkines. That's a different biologic condition from what we are seeing in the raw food vegans."

"We think it's possible these people don't have increased risk of fracture but that their low bone mass is related to the fact that they are lighter because they take in fewer calories."

Further study is needed to prove that raw food vegans have light-but-healthy bones.