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Caitlin
Dec 10th, 2005, 09:05 PM
"The term is okay by me, it simply states that diet is the only aspect of their life in accordance with veganism. Quick and simple to the point that they may well wear leather etc and have no ethical reasoning behind their choices, only health/diet selfish concerns."

"To be perfectly honest I think the term 'Dietry-Vegan' is fine as it clearly states that the person is NOT completely vegan, and is only vegan in the dietry sense, which is therefore not calling themselves a vegan. It is also much simpler to say than ' a-person-who-doesn't-eat-anything-with-anything-to-do-with-animals.'"

thank you everyone for agreeing. and also, when you say you are vegan, someone asks "what that?" and you respond you dont eat meat, dairy, eggs or any animal by-products. the diet is the first thing you point out and more than often don't get the chance to tell them about leather, fur, products tested on animals, circuses, zoos, etc. the term strict-vegetarian is a little shady because to me just saying strict vegetarian means you are simply a strict vegetarian who makes it certain to avoid consuming meat. we all know there is more to veganism than just diet. the only aspect of veganism to them is their diet and nothing else.

laurin
Jun 3rd, 2007, 07:21 PM
If someone said "I don't eat meat, eggs or dairy" and another person responded "are you vegan" and they replied no "I just don't like eating those things". I think that's the proper way to respond to the question.

When someone asks me "are you vegan" after they found out I don't eat any animal products, I follow it up with saying I don't support animal cruelty in any part of my life.

Becoming a vegan was the best thing I've ever done in my 20 years of living so far and I take great pride in that.

berta_the_aspie
Jun 3rd, 2007, 09:07 PM
I actually replied to this thread when it was started but still haven’t changed my feelings toward this. People don’t seem to understand me and my dietary vegan label. I don’t see how a dietary vegan would (as stated by korn in the initial post) “go hunting on the weekends”, that sounds like 1% of all vegans, probably the ones with heart problems, who HAVE to eat vegan, prescribed by their doctors, but who doesn’t know or care for anything and doesn’t know that there is a vegan word and a movement.

I don’t think people get my (dietary) veganism. I am vegan because when I wasn’t I felt like a cannibal. I can’t eat animals just because they are believed to be a little dumber than people.(Except birds, dogs and dolphins) I don’t think they should be killed just cause they aren’t an intelligent species, just like I don’t think people with downs and such should be aborted JUST cause of their diagnose. I think ALL beings have the same worth, and I don’t get vegans who are pro sex/diagnose selective abortion, that just seems hypocritical to me. ( I am pro choice though, I just don’t wanna eliminate all autistics, downies and women…) I don’t love animals, just like I don’t love all people.

It also seems weird to care more about animals than about humans, especially those in need, but I guess you gotta start somewhere.
You can’t be 100% vegan. It’s impossible. You can’t know that EVERYTHING you buy didn’t harm an animal, child or the environment. To me it seems like there should be a balance, vegans should care more about human rights and the environment (make statements specially right now with everything going on and no one mentions that going vegan helps the environment) and vice verca.

I challenge you to find these vegan items:

Old school telemark boots
Hiking boots
Hiking baselayer shirt and tights that is warm when it’s wet, doesn’t stink, doesn’t give allergies, lightweight, organic, environmentally friendly, can’t be made by children/slaves
I thought I’d try Patagonias shirts but Im not sure they fill all the requirements (anyone tried it?)

Those are the only things I still wear that aren’t vegan

cobweb
Jun 3rd, 2007, 09:34 PM
^ well hiking boots are very easy to get from Vegetarian shoes, Animal Aid and probably lots of other places online. I don't know about the other stuff but would have thought they'd be easy enough.

Anyway, Berta you're doing so much more than the average joe at least, I do kind of get your label, everyone has different cut-off points I suppose, as no-one can be '100% pure vegan' ;) .

berta_the_aspie
Jun 3rd, 2007, 09:37 PM
yeah well they have to be PERFECT hiking boots not just so-so. im picky

cobweb
Jun 3rd, 2007, 09:47 PM
Hmm, I expect the Cow was thinking that when she donated her skin :mad:

berta_the_aspie
Jun 3rd, 2007, 09:51 PM
that they'd have to be perfect ? sure she was thinking that. but yeah. and i cant buy shoes online. im veeeeeeery picky

freqy
Jun 6th, 2007, 11:27 PM
i always say im a herbivore at the dinner table. i get a much better response than when i say i'm vegan , i think people think veganism is a weird dark religious cult or something ...they always seem to go quiet. but when i say im a herbivore people tend to inquire and i can get a conversation going. herbivore sounds cute !! lol.

berta_the_aspie
Jun 11th, 2007, 11:35 AM
right... people i know have no clue what veganism is let alone herbivoreism, they'd just be more confused

freqy
Jun 11th, 2007, 03:30 PM
herbivore is a more recognisable, well most people around the uk know what one is. its mentioned on tv quite allot on nature programs. i prefer the name. vegan sound to much like being mr.spock or a religious thing. i'm sticking with herbivore :)

herbwormwood
Jun 11th, 2007, 05:21 PM
I think the term is ok as it specifies a minimum standard.
Many of us go further, and that is very good. But how far?
No one should be calling themself vegan if they eat any animal products, I think most vegans agree on that.
But as far as the rest goees there are so many degrees.
For example, do we have some cushions on our second hand sofa which contain wool/feathers? Do we have some leather trimming on our car steering wheel? Do our non leather shoes contain some animal derived glue? Do our carpets contain some wool? Maybe we don't know, if the carpet was there when we moved in? Perhaps we have no choice on carpet if renting a furnished room?
When in the pub do we carry a list of vegan beers/wines etc?
What about the shell necklace our friend gave us? Or items in our wardrobe from pre-vegan days? Some life saving medication we have been advised to continue taking?

freqy
Jun 11th, 2007, 07:47 PM
->I think the term is ok as it specifies a minimum standard.

kinda.

herbivore is a softer/lighter way to explain my diet at the dinner table.
and it works really well....ive been veg*n for 14 years . 2 years vegan
and since ive used herbivore as a term for my diet, its sooo much nicer and brighter.

i shouldnt have to mention or go in depth that i don't wear leather shoes or purchase animal by products when asked what i would like for my main course.

simplify!

it works for me. after which if the people seem interested go more indepth.

toodelypip. ;)

berta_the_aspie
Jun 12th, 2007, 12:08 PM
i've been a vegan for 2 years as well!:D gosh, how to i translate herbivore to norwegian tho? isnt it the same as saying planteater?

horselesspaul
Jun 12th, 2007, 12:23 PM
For example, do we have some cushions on our second hand sofa which contain wool/feathers? Gave them to an omni.


Do we have some leather trimming on our car steering wheel?
Nah it's all plastic. I'm no Clarkson.


Do our non leather shoes contain some animal derived glue?
Not if you buy them from a vegan supplier.


Do our carpets contain some wool? Gave them to an omni.


When in the pub do we carry a list of vegan beers/wines etc?
I just stick to German lager. Vegan brewing is the law.


Or items in our wardrobe from pre-vegan days?
Ironically, all sold off in animal welfare charity shops on day one..

Being vegan is frequently a question of opportunity and access to information but the above choices were easy enough to make and this is an area that many snidey omnis like to poke around in to make themselves feel more comfortable and I don't like to give them the satisfaction.

freqy
Jun 12th, 2007, 04:17 PM
i've been a vegan for 2 years as well!:D gosh, how to i translate herbivore to norwegian tho? isnt it the same as saying planteater?

yeah herbivore = plant eater

wow your english is good ! I admire people that are multilingual. ;)

peace
freqz

Shells
Jan 25th, 2008, 04:05 AM
I totally agree, and your analysis is really strong! I just call dietary vegans "strict vegetarians" and then use plain old "vegetarian" for lacto-ovo people.

That's just what I've always learned, and I don't even know any other vegans/transitioning vegans (I'm still the latter - but getting better every day!).

Roxy
Jan 25th, 2008, 04:29 AM
Good for you Shells :) Keep on soldiering on.....it's all worth it!

chrissy
Jan 25th, 2008, 08:51 PM
As most people know, vegans avoid animal products as much as possible, not only in their diet: veganism is not only about food.

The term 'dietary vegan' has been used at least on one occasion, on one page of the site of a vegan organization.

.........snipped.......

.......people knew that veganism was about more than food, it was about respect for animals.

Let's not change that.

That's interesting; I'd never considered that 'vegan' could mean anything other than a whole lifestyle outlook, of which diet is only one, albeit important, aspect.

I totally see your POV on this - they are *not* vegans :( maybe they should be referred to as 'herbies' - like herbivores, or some other term that would distinguish the fact they are are only following a non-animal diet but *not* a vegan lifestyle for vegan principles.

I actually think this is a crucial point for the propagation of vegan principles, so how about the Vegan Society & this so-called 'Vegan' society, comes up with a suitable name for their diet & doesn't pollute the true meaning of the word.

paragonx
Jan 29th, 2008, 11:59 AM
i always say im a herbivore at the dinner table. i get a much better response than when i say i'm vegan , i think people think veganism is a weird dark religious cult or something ...they always seem to go quiet. but when i say im a herbivore people tend to inquire and i can get a conversation going. herbivore sounds cute !! lol.


I say herbivore as well. It makes the conversation light and people seem more willing to listen than to write me off as a crazy Peta person. (nothing against Peta this just has been my experience with both the terms vegan and vegetarian)

Korn
Jan 29th, 2008, 12:17 PM
I totally see your POV on this - they are *not* vegans :( maybe they should be referred to as 'herbies' - like herbivores, or some other term that would distinguish the fact they are are only following a non-animal diet but *not* a vegan lifestyle for vegan principles.


Out of curiosity, I just googled some terms that already exist just to check how often they are used on internet...


Vegitan (found 12,200 times)
Strict vegetarian (113,000)
Herbivore (1,010,000)
Plant eater (45,300)
True vegetarian (12,700)
Pure vegetarian (143,000)
Inconsistent (16,700,000) :)


The word 'vegan' was found 24,6 mill times.

The word vegetarian (which should have a different meaning than "lacto-vegetarian") was found 60 mill. times

Topaz
Jan 30th, 2008, 06:04 AM
To me, "strict vegetarian" just sounds like someone who is vegetarian all the time instead of most of the time. I like the term "dietary vegan," except I don't trust that the wait staff at non-vegan restaurants have any idea what that means.

Shells
Feb 1st, 2008, 09:02 AM
Thanks Roxy - and I know it's worth it. The biggest thing for me is changing my mindset totally, and not just setting up labels and limitations for myself (I have compulsive issues and I know what not to do with my eating habits, and that's anything drastic or restrictive). The trick for me is to make sure my mental framework is not in the mode of restrictiveness. I mean, getting rid of meat was really easy, I just didn't want to eat it ever again and still don't. Milk came (left?) really easy, as did ice cream. Eggs are quite nearly there - Woot!

I know it's not hard to be a vegan, but it's hard to make the mental leap - it's a process of undoing: undoing all the work that advertisers have been doing for hundreds of years - alienating the product from the source, the elite (west) from the modes of production, humanity/culture from nature. Some people are gifted in their associative powers and others have to work at the reassociation process. It's not easy to undo the dissociation because it's drilled into us since birth.

So maybe "dietary vegans" are just working their way in - they've mastered the reassociation of food, but it's a lot harder for them to really connect the ideas with soap and shoes.

But then again, I still don't call myself vegan until I'm really animal product free, which will take me God knows how long (I pretty never throw shoes away. It wasn't too long ago my mom had to pry a pair of broken down sandals from my hands - I'd had them since middle school!) so I might be wearing leather for a long time. I can't justify buying new shoes to replace once that are still all whole and not falling apart, it just feels wasteful to me.

I don't call myself a dietary vegan either - and won't, even once I kick the last remnants of lacto and ovo food from my diet. It's a process of first mourning the item, and then retraining my brain to realize thar mourning them is a total waste of time because ick, who'd ever want that in the first place (milk, my old shampoos, silk). But ah, this week I'm still a little bit in mourning of peppermint patties and hershy kisses. My brain is still blocking the fact that they have milk and/or egg whites in them. Reassociate, brain!

Any way, to me, veganism is totally principle based, so the term "dietary vegan" is nonsensical. Veganism isn't a diet plan - the health benefits are totally tertiary (ecofeminist vegan ideals first, environment second, shrinking waistline super bonus perk for having a consistent ethics), so to be a dietary vegan sounds... like a fad. Like the zone diet or something. I mean, it's hugely helpful to the environment especially, so I'm not saying anything snide, I just think if you're going to operate in a certain framework of ideas, there comes a point when the over particularization of labels/signs can be detrimental, and I think this is a case of that.

If you're a diety vegan because you're transitioning, using that label makes it seem like you've hit and end point and might stop your momentum. It also confuses non-veggies as to what the real point of the vegan ideal is.

I'm rambling. This is what happens when you don't sleep. :)

chrissy
Feb 2nd, 2008, 08:03 AM
.....
Any way, to me, veganism is totally principle based, so the term "dietary vegan" is nonsensical. Veganism isn't a diet plan - the health benefits are totally tertiary (ecofeminist vegan ideals first, environment second, shrinking waistline super bonus perk for having a consistent ethics), so to be a dietary vegan sounds... like a fad. ........
........

A wonderful analysis :)

ALexiconofLove
Feb 2nd, 2008, 03:14 PM
I think dietary vegans should be allowed to call themselves vegans in situations such as ordering food at restaurants, and with people who only have “vegetarian” and “vegan” in their vocabulary. I dont even know anyone familiar with the term vegan, they don’t even respect my wish to be a vegetarian…

I agree with this. If you want a meal without meat, eggs, dairy, or animal products in it, shouldn't you be able to get that without going into a long explanation about your diet choice? "Vegan" is understood more readily (IMO) than "strict vegetarian" or "herbivore" or anything like that.

Jiffy
Feb 4th, 2008, 07:54 AM
I just wish the muppetts who are so fond of saying, ad nauseam that 'Hitler was a Vegetarian', would read this thread.