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AbFab
Sep 5th, 2005, 03:38 PM
Hi, Jo1234.

I don't claim to speak for anyone else, but I for one WOULD consider someone who in pre-vegan days purchased something non-vegan, as still a vegan now, even if they haven't gotten rid of said item, but don't contribute any more to the meat and by-products industry. I think it's all about trying, and being realistic. Personally, I have always hated leather sofas - they get hot and sweaty in the summer and you have to peel yourself off them. Plus I can just SMELL them!

I know what you mean about the unnecessary lack of labelling - it seems so pointless, and I really don't know why more companies don't do it wherever they can. Maybe they can't make a commitment to keeping that item vegan, maybe it's made on a production line where there may be cross-contamination. Maybe they think it will put off the rest of the consumers who see the vegan label and think 'eurgh, this is bound to be tasteless and bleurgh'. I don't know. Keep hassling them, I reckon!

Keep up the good work.

Gliondrach
Sep 5th, 2005, 05:24 PM
Hello, Jo, and welcome.

It doesn't matter if you still have leather things. As you say, the animals aren't suffering now. I still have a few leather things. I've had them for many years.

Regards,

Martin.

Kiran
Sep 5th, 2005, 10:19 PM
Like others said.. if you already have leathers in your house-hold it is fine. There is nothing much you can do about it. You are a vegan if you don' buy leather stuff from now on. No worries.

Gliondrach
Sep 5th, 2005, 10:23 PM
I've only just managed to get back on here. I lost the connection at about 6 o'clock - more than four hours ago. I don't think I was the only one because, until just a minute ago, there had been no posts since before that time.

puffin
Sep 5th, 2005, 10:32 PM
I've only just managed to get back on here. I lost the connection at about 6 o'clock - more than four hours ago. I don't think I was the only one because, until just a minute ago, there had been no posts since before that time.
Your not alone :cool:

Joe, when i became vegan i had a few pairs of leather shoes and just bought non vegan ones when they became worn.

Kiran
Sep 5th, 2005, 10:35 PM
The forum is normally put offline when back-up, archiving and maintenance takes place. And it could be a long process.

Seaside
Sep 6th, 2005, 02:28 AM
This is one of those gray areas in which it is not exactly correct from a vegan viewpoint to say keeping old leather items is 100% fine and good, or 100% bad and unveganly. If someone is out leafletting and trying to gain converts while wearing their old leather jacket because it hasn't worn out yet they will look like a hyprocrite to people who are unfamiliar with veganism. People who were wearing leather clothing while throwing red paint on people who wore fur did not make a very good impression on outsiders. A person shouldn't feel bad about major purchases made before they were vegan, but they shouldn't be content with keeping them because they purchased them before they went vegan.

My dad has a leather sofa, and if there is someone sitting in the only cloth covered chair in his living room, I will sit on the floor. But that is me. I gave up using leather before I gave up eating eggs and cheese.

mophoto
Sep 6th, 2005, 04:45 AM
i am going through the same problems. i just turned vegan and have avoided leather shoes, but the weather is going to get cold soon and my flip flops aren't going to cut it. i have read on this forum that converse was bought out by nike. can't really wear those in good conscious. i hate being poor.:( i am so torn by what to do. i got a good pair of walking shoes for christmas last year, maybe i should just donate them. but what will i wear? this christmas my family will get a very detailed list.


i haven't worn leather since going vegan, wouldn't feel right doing it, but i feel it is a personal choice.

Roxy
Sep 6th, 2005, 05:05 AM
Jo, I would say the same as mostly everyone else here. I would consider someone a vegan if they are living a vegan lifestyle to the best of their ability, but they own a leather item purchased in their pre-vegan days.

Michelle
Sep 17th, 2005, 05:11 AM
well, everyone here is right, i think...however, and i don't think i've ever admitted this here, but i don't actually tell people that i am vegan simply because i do have leather seats in my car and we do have leather furniture in the house---these are things that my husband picked out/bought before we were married, but since i drive the car and sit on the couch, i feel a little hyprocritical calling myself vegan...which of course is just the choice that i am comfortable with. i just tell people that i don't eat meat, eggs or dairy and that i don't believe in using or abusing animals (including humans) :o

mophoto
Sep 17th, 2005, 05:28 AM
well, everyone here is right, i think...however, and i don't think i've ever admitted this here, but i don't actually tell people that i am vegan simply because i do have leather seats in my car and we do have leather furniture in the house---these are things that my husband picked out/bought before we were married, but since i drive the car and sit on the couch, i feel a little hyprocritical calling myself vegan...which of course is just the choice that i am comfortable with. i just tell people that i don't eat meat, eggs or dairy and that i don't believe in using or abusing animals (including humans) :o

i understand what you mean about not labeling yourself. i still have cleaning products, lotion and shampoo i need to use up before i can say i am 100%, but when you tell someone you are vegan they only question the food aspects, which can lead to a good conversation. if i had money i would just donate everything questionable, for now i just threw away 3 lip balms in my purse because they contain lanolin. my lips are getting chapped just typing this. need some vegan lip balm!

Tofu Monster
Sep 17th, 2005, 08:46 AM
my lips are getting chapped just typing this. need some vegan lip balm!

you need this (http://www.pussypuckerpots.com/) my vegan friend! just look at the flavours they have to choose from!! :eek:

eve
Sep 17th, 2005, 09:34 AM
My, how your looks have changed! :)

abrennan
Sep 17th, 2005, 09:40 AM
Bring back captain Kirk

"Spock, I want an investigaton and a report"

Gliondrach
Sep 17th, 2005, 09:42 AM
Your not alone :cool:

Joe, when i became vegan i had a few pairs of leather shoes and just bought non vegan ones when they became worn.

I think that you may have become a bit confused there, Vainposter Slayer. You now buy non vegan shoes?

Mr Flibble
Sep 17th, 2005, 09:45 AM
I wouldn't call someone vegan who found a leg of lamb at the bottom of their freezer 10 years later and had it for sunday lunch because it needs using up as opposed to giving it to a meat eating friend. However when it comes to things such as leather it isn't always practical to donate everything to charity and buy new things. Thankfully I didn't own a home when I turned vegan so I didn't have much, and since I've furnished a flat with my priniciples in mind from the start. I do still have a pair of trainers I got about 8 years ago (made by Nike of all people!) with some leather on for using when I go to the gym which are still in good condition (no comment!). It feels odd putting them on when I do, but I'd be a hypocrit for buying them in the first place if I were to just throw them away (they arn't new enough really to donate anywhere). I can just about bare people around me using animal products but wasting them (like when we go for a curry and my counterparts order about twice as much as they could ever physically eat) just shows a complete and utter lack of understanding or respect. So no, I don't think still owning a leather sofa still makes you less vegan.

I can personally recommend, for the sake of well being, to donate it to charity (such as Oxfam in the UK who have second hand furniture stores) and replace it if you have the money. I get a lot of satisfaction out of having my own personal completely (touch wood, i've probably made a few mistakes and I'm not sure about one of the rooms in this rented place that has a carpet, the rest of floors are wooden) vegan space, knowing there's nothing dead or remains of anything dead lurking around the place. Of course it completely depends on your financial situation, personally it's something i'd happily spend a few months saving for.

RedKiss
Sep 17th, 2005, 10:06 AM
One of the most unique and wonderful things about being Vegan is the all the efforts we go to stay crulty free. As it has been said many times, it is almost impossible to become 100% crulty free, because in the long run with the history of products, some where there is probably something not vegan. No matter how many times you see the words. "All Manmade Materials". you always wonder. I for one will continue the quest and revel in all efforts to maintain as much freedom as possible, while doing what part I can to try and convince the rest of the world to change it's evil ways before it's too late.


__________________________________________________ ____________

If people like you don't care alot, nothing is ever going to get better, it's not.
"The Lorax" - Dr. Suess

gypsyveg
Sep 19th, 2005, 06:14 PM
Funny, if I have a leather couch, but order vegan when I'm out - it would be weird if they said I wasn't because then they would try to feed me cheese, chicken or fish - Yuck!!

Gliondrach
Sep 19th, 2005, 11:50 PM
Funny, if I have a leather couch, but order vegan when I'm out - it would be weird if they said I wasn't because then they would try to feed me cheese, chicken or fish - Yuck!!

The first thing you should say, upon entering a restaurant, is: 'I don't have leather furniture, you know?' Just in case they are wondering.

princessemma
Oct 17th, 2005, 11:22 PM
It is quite confusing to a new-vegan what is and isn't vegan, I mean at what point you are a vegan as opposed to 'trying to be a vegan' I suppose in a way it's like a religion in that no-one is 100% but you do the best you can according to your circumstances. I personally will probably say I tried to live a vegan life-style as opposed to saying I am a vegan because there will always be that 'old jumper I thought was acrylic' or an 'additive in something not listed in the ingredients' strange because I always call myself a vegatarian even when I didn't know about gelatine or animal rennet in some foods until I'd been eating them a long time. I felt bad but still felt I was a vegetarian.

Pilaf
Oct 21st, 2005, 12:02 AM
The most important thing is that your heart is in the right place and you put forth effort, one step at a time. It's a journey.

TheFirstBus
Oct 21st, 2005, 05:13 PM
I would like to comment on using second hand leathers and wool as to coin it 'recycling' :D

Mr Flibble
Oct 21st, 2005, 05:39 PM
I would like to comment on using second hand leathers and wool as to coin it 'recycling' :D

Do you mean when you say this if it's leather or wool you owned previously and are now using, or new second hand things you've acquired. If the latter, I'd argue that you're taking out of the second hand pool items which could be used by non vegans who instead buy new. Personally I got rid of everything I could afford to when i turned vegan, and I wouldn't want a bit of dead animal whether it's second hand or not.

TheFirstBus
Oct 21st, 2005, 06:20 PM
I don't think we live in a perfect world. There will be second hand leathers and wools and in some situations I don't see it as a breach of ethics to use the second hand ones.

Mr Flibble
Oct 21st, 2005, 07:38 PM
I don't think we live in a perfect world either, but why buy an animal product when there's alternatives available? You're still supporting the trade in animal products, whether new or not, still increasing the chances of people buying new leather by decreasing the amount of second hand available and still increasing the likelihood of someone buying new knowing they can sell second hand.