PDA

View Full Version : Order of reasoning for going vegan?



Pages : [1] 2 3 4

The_Lincoln_Imp
Sep 9th, 2005, 12:18 PM
Environment
Ethics
Health
Religion

Put them in the order of your own reasons.

Mine:

Ethics
Environment
Health


Off the scale non-issue: Religion

LittleNellColumbia
Sep 9th, 2005, 12:48 PM
Ethics

Health

Environment (the second two are pretty much equal)

Religion is also off the scale of issues for me:)

terrace max
Sep 9th, 2005, 01:06 PM
I believe it's helpful to see our actions holistically, rather than in arbitrary compartments.

Aren't ethics, health and the environment essentially the same thing?

By this I mean you can't be healthy in a dodgy environment. You can't do something good which is also bad for the environemt. You can't be healthy long term if you're doing something wrong etc. etc. This is supported by scientific enquiry: for example, try dividing a human being from the environment at a biological, let alone molecular, level...

For these reasons it's no coincidence that veganism is healthy, ethical and good for the environment!

LittleNellColumbia
Sep 9th, 2005, 01:11 PM
I agree very muchly, but i couldnt be bothered thinkinking about writing it coz im tired:D but well said

The_Lincoln_Imp
Sep 9th, 2005, 01:54 PM
I believe it's helpful to see our actions holistically, rather than in arbitrary compartments.

Aren't ethics, health and the environment essentially the same thing?

By this I mean you can't be healthy in a dodgy environment. You can't do something good which is also bad for the environemt. You can't be healthy long term if you're doing something wrong etc. etc. This is supported, rather than contradicted by scientific enquiry: for example, try dividing a human being from the environment at a biological, let alone molecular, level...

For these reasons it's no coincidence that veganism is healthy, ethical and good for the environment!

True, over time all reasons become one but during that initial moment of breakthrough I think most of us will have tended to have specific reasoning. Ethics clearly refers to animal concern which was the sole reason for me personally. Been reading a few vegan books recently and they always group the reasoning by the above four so just chose to play this thread poll across such linear logic.

terrace max
Sep 9th, 2005, 02:23 PM
True, over time all reasons become one but during that initial moment of breakthrough I think most of us will have tended to have specific reasoning

I'm sure that's right. I think my initiation was largely environmental (or maybe ecopsychological!).

Seaside
Sep 9th, 2005, 06:24 PM
Reverence for life. If everyone shared reverence for life, ethics, health, religion, environment, etc. would all take care of themselves.

Barley
Sep 10th, 2005, 11:49 AM
Ethics
Health
Environment

Religion is a non-issue for me too. I do take environmental considerations quite seriously but, and call me a fatalist if you like, the world is so f***ed up now, I wonder why I do - anyone else feel helpless like that? My greenness versus the US of A - some competition.....

Gliondrach
Sep 10th, 2005, 11:53 AM
I'm a vegan because I am a thoroughly nice chap,

eve
Sep 10th, 2005, 12:01 PM
Like seaside, for me it's reverence for life. :)

Mr Flibble
Sep 22nd, 2005, 12:37 AM
ethics

environment (surely this is ethics?!)

health (a bonus, not my motivation)

religion (my religion I chose partly because it encourages veganism, i didn't become vegan because of the religion)

ConsciousCuisine
Sep 22nd, 2005, 01:09 AM
religion (my religion I chose partly because it encourages veganism, i didn't become vegan because of the religion)



Do tell, which religion that encourages veganism do you subscribe to?

Roxy
Sep 22nd, 2005, 01:51 AM
Is it Buddhism?

foxytina_69
Sep 22nd, 2005, 02:02 AM
animals.

RubyDuby
Sep 22nd, 2005, 02:11 AM
theres a religion called animals?:p I need to research that one! :D

Jacqui
Sep 22nd, 2005, 07:42 AM
I was under the impression that Buddhists could eat meat as long as they didn't order the killing, and I thought they were okay with dairy as well.:confused:

Mr Flibble
Sep 22nd, 2005, 10:40 AM
Buddhism yes, although buddhism is a collective name for a lot of religions that share similarities and beleifs. Most Buddhists in the world, like christians are born into the religion and hence are cultural followers. Cultural followers inevitably end up worshipping myths that have existed in the countries before hand, as opposed to the original teachings of a religion. A lot of things attributed to Buddhists arn't Buddhist at all, as a result of thousands of years of corruption and kings/warlords twisting things for their gain (sound familiar to any of Henry 8ths cult followers (aka church of england)? ;)). Most non bigot christians will agree that christmas was a rebranding exercise on the winter solstice, as it was easier to convert pagans (most of whom were cultural pagans) if you still let them keep their holidays. In Buddhism, as opposed to commandments (thou shalt not etc etc because i'm god and i say so) there's precepts, and most Buddhist orders subscribe to at least the core 5, the first of which is about not killing. How can eating meat be described as not killing? How can keeping a cow pregnant all it's life, killing its offspring so it can be milked and then killing it when it's milk production falls be counted as not killing? Unless you are are a monk/nun the precepts are generally reguarded by cultural followers to be things that you should follow, but you don't have to. Many followers have religious days, where they don't eat meat, don't drink etc, then the rest of the time do as they like.

I was personally well under way formulating my own theories, phylosophies and ethics on the world before finding buddhism, and I wouldn't really say I've changed my life in any way for Buddhism. It just fits in with my way of things the best. I think that mindfulness is highly important for a happy life, and to acknowledge that the present moment is all that exists. I agree that meditation can be helpful in helping us with these things, and I'm a big fan of WBO's meditation technique (Mindfulness of Breathing and Metta Bhavana (Development of Lovingkindness)), so I've been attending their centres on and off for the past 5 years. I'm not ordained, and I'm not sure I ever want to be. God wise though, I'm still agnostic, and I don't think any human can ever say for sure what god is the real god. I don't know how I got here, what I am, whether I'm the centre of the universe/god and you lot are my imagination or not, but I must have come into existance somehow, and it just doesn't make sense. So as far as the god part goes, I'm pretty sure it's just something that's currently beyond human comprehension, much like rocket science is beyond the comprehension of a hamster. For some reason humans seem to require religion as a way of answering questions for them that they either don't want to think about or can't answer, but I'm very much a scientist, and whilst I'd love to follow god based religions like paganism, there's just too much to buy into that can't be sanely argued.

abrennan
Sep 22nd, 2005, 11:16 AM
I was under the impression that Buddhists could eat meat as long as they didn't order the killing, and I thought they were okay with dairy as well.:confused:

As Mr Flibble says there are many groups under the buddhist umbrella and a lot of cultural baggage in many of them.

When Siddartha Gotama took students they were a group homeless people who were dependent on the community for their food. He called the Bhikku's which looslet translates as beggars. They were beggars. They were not allowed to own anything beyoung their robes and bowl and water filters so they could collect water without insects getting into it and being eaten.

Anyway they would only eat once a day. Any of the food they got had to be begged for. They would go from house to house with a bowl and the householders would come out give then some of the food they had organised for their own families. Remember that most of the community were subsistence farmers. They had very little for themselves and not much more. If they had eaten meat, which was not a daily occasion for them, then that would be all they had to offer. So according to the rules the monks and nuns were not to refuse this because the householder couldn't whip up a special dish just for the bhikkkus and bhikkunis.

BUT if the monks and nuns knew that the animal had been killed in order to offer some of it to them they were to refuse it. The large part of the beggars diet was vegetarian but there was a small amount of meat because this formed part of the diet of the people supplying the food.

If you look at the teachings of the Buddha you are not only not to kill but you are to remove violence and anger and exploitation from your way of thinking, acting and living. this means to be vegan in my viewpoint. But also buddhism is not a "Thou shalt" philosophy. It is a method of investigating your life and deciding for yourself. Be a lamp unto yourself is a famous quote from the last few words that the Buddha spoke before he died.

I eventually became vegan out of compassion and reverence for life due to looking deeply into myself and my life and the lives of other beings.


see ya

antony:)

In most regions today there is no real need for monks and nuns to consume meat. But do to cultural and personal reasons many do.

My Teacher is Thich Nhat Hanh. He encourages his students to be vegetarian at least and he requires hid monks and nuns to be vegetarian, There are vegans amongst them.

So there you go.

Mr Flibble
Sep 22nd, 2005, 11:34 AM
This discussion should perhaps follow on in a new thread, but whilst I'm here, I agree that Thich Nhat Hanh is a great teacher (I've several of his books, at least one of is in my top 10) and very inspirational person. However, the main thing stopping me from visiting his retreat/meditation centre (http://www.plumvillage.org/) in France is that they can't cater for vegans!

I emailed them a while back and from their website:

"The food is vegetarian. Unfortunately, we are limited in our capacity to accommodate people who have special dietary or medical needs. "

http://www.plumvillage.org/retreats/YearRoundRetreatInfo.htm

abrennan
Sep 22nd, 2005, 11:36 AM
That is no good at all

Kam
Sep 22nd, 2005, 01:02 PM
Health

Environment

Ethics

It's LIKE a religion to me!

I think you could add more reasons, like LOVE! I know someone who went vegan primarily because he loved a vegan girl and wanted to be with her and thought it would help win her over. He is now vegan for all the reasons above, not just for love, but it's what got him in the first place. And they are still together.

eclectic_one
Sep 30th, 2005, 04:50 PM
I agree with some others that my main reason for being a vegan is a reverence for life and not being able to stand the thought of causing any more suffering than is necessary. I too think that this combines all the "reasons." I have recently read a few books that point out how most religions encouraged vegetarianism to some degree. I consider myself a Christian/Buddhist/Taoist, because these three "religions" all seem to speak to me. (I think ALL religions have some of the "truth," but these three speak most strongly to my heart.) It surprises people that Judaism and christianity have actually been viewed as vegetarian/vegan by some theologians. Some even point to the fact that before the flood, God had only made mention of non-animal sources of food. They further point out that God made certain pronouncements (i.e., drain all the blood from the animal) not because He wanted us to eat meat, but because people were already doing it and He at least wanted us to not cause any more suffering than necessary. As far as blood sacrifice in the two religions, these theologians further point out that some prophets cried out against animal sacrifice (saying that God does not want your burnt offerings, etc) and that such sacrifice was actually kept from older local religions. Of course, Buddhism more strongly asserts the importance of not causing suffering--including allowing others to cause suffering--in what most consider "lower" creatures. I too agree with others that milk and eggs (at least here in the US) cause suffering by how the animals are treated and what happens to the baby animals in each industry.

aubergine
Sep 30th, 2005, 05:39 PM
Primarily health - I was very, very ill and as it cleared up as I sorted out my diet, it led me to Veganism.

Next would be Animal Welfare. What I have learned in the last year has served to cement my decision.

To a lesser extent would be the environment.

Last of all rould be Religion. Although it plays no real part in my life now, I was raised in a fairly modern Christian envronment where we were taught about compassion. *If* Jesus ever did exist, I cannot believe he would sanction what goes in the Livestock industry, and how it pollutes this earth. In the Bible it says we are stewards for this world. A fine job we seem to be doing...

Plunder Bunnie
Sep 30th, 2005, 05:48 PM
Ethics
Spirituality (i dont belong to any organised religion, but am a very spiritual person)
Environment
Health

Camyle26
Oct 17th, 2005, 10:24 PM
Ethics
Health
Religion
Environment




:)