View Full Version : What are the moral arguments of veganism
Sep 20th, 2005, 02:24 PM
New poster here. Sorry if this thread is touching on some other threads or sites; I don't really have much time to search. I search for "moral" and i got 8 pages I can't read through them all I have school work to attend to and such.
Well anyways I was wondering if some people can provide what their moral philosophy is or what another moral philosophy that supports veganism is. For example are most vegans on this board vegan on utilitarian grounds, religous grounds, etc... My goal is to hear about as many moral philosohies (or ethical codes) that is possible on this forum.
I have been reading into different philosophies lately trying to find which one is right for me. I've read into Peter Singer's ideas briefly. I also was thinking of ordering Gary Franciones book which has something to do with saving a child or a dog in a fire. Utilitarianism seems good but it has its flaws. Many religions have flaws too. I'm hoping for philosophical guidance so I can choose one way to live my life. I posted this thread on another vegetarian/vegan forums and my account was banned and all posts deleted. If this type of post isn't allowed just let me know any I wont' post anything coming close to opposing views in the future. Thanks.
Sep 20th, 2005, 02:53 PM
First off, welcome. I think it is fine to post such questions, so feel free. i don't really see why such a post would be unacceptable.
Second off, save the child if you can only save one - any philosophy that suggests otherwise seems seriously flawed to me.
Veganism is the notion that the use of animals in this day and age is unnecessary, and therefore, as far as I can tell, to kill and abuse animals for mere human gain is immoral. That seems to be it in a nutshell to me. We do not need to eat flesh for health, in fact, the most healthy diet is a vegan one, so there really is no excuse. It is also not necessary to wear clothes that rely on animal skins or furs or fleeces, they are not ours to take advantage of. I am sure someone can answer this more thoroughly, but I like to give short answers where possible, so I hope this helps.
I don't think you have to find one philosophy which is right for you - do your research and find the best parts from each one that suits YOU.
Sep 20th, 2005, 04:58 PM
On top of what Kam says, many of us also try to limit the harm we cause to the whole planet, and all forms of life - including humans. Choosing ethical companies to buy goods from, supporting organic and fair trade foods, etc.
Sep 20th, 2005, 05:42 PM
I posted this thread on another vegetarian/vegan forums and my account was banned and all posts deleted. If this type of post isn't allowed just let me know any I wont' post anything coming close to opposing views in the future. Thanks.
Well, I don't know what you wrote on another forum but I hope this isn't banned as it takes away your freedom of speech in my eyes, as long as you aren't spouting hatred, racism ect.. then what you have said in this post is a perfectly good question!!
Firstly, you do what you think is right!! I am vegan firstly for animal rights/ethical/environmental reasons, and in more recent years I also see the benefit to the health of my family as well as myself. I think the majority of vegans become vegan due to the barbaric ways animals are kept/abused/ killed for human consumption and used to the 'supposed' benefit of humans.
It is a good idea to read as much literature as you can about the reasons/morality of being vegan and then form your own opinion. But I would say that compassion would have to form the majority of reasons for why you would become vegan to start with.
Some questions for you - are you vegan? or looking to become vegan? if you are vegan, why did you take the steps to becoming vegan?
As you probably know veganism is a big step when you first go into it because it goes against the grain of the diet/ethics of the majority of society (even though nowadays the vegan goodies you can get compared to when I started being vegan, when you had to make everything from scratch, has vastly improved eg: vegan cheese and better tasing soya milk etc!!). So taking that step alone is usually down to passion/compassion in the first place, and the strengths of those feelings. It is all to easy to turn the other cheek for most but for the few the realisation that you have to 'change yourself before you change the world', and for those who have taken the steps to being vegan, most have done because they realise they can't continue to abuse non-human animals, their own bodies and the environment.
Yes, there are those who do it purely for health or even religion. I can't answer for them but I am sure you will get your answers off here about that too :0)
Good luck in your quest for knowledge :0)
Love and light
Xxxx Stormy xxxX
Sep 20th, 2005, 08:23 PM
For me, the moral reason for veganism is simple. If my existence does not depend on the exploitation/death of sentient beings, then why would I exploit/kill them? That doesn't mean that I can be 100% assured of never participating in an activity (like driving or flying or having an operation) that may exploit animals in some way (including the human type of animal). It just means that I can't justify treating sentient beings as lesser than me purely for pleasure or convenience or whatever reasons people use.
There are MANY books written on this topic. And the authors are much more eloquent than I, but there's another answer for you. :)
Sep 20th, 2005, 08:25 PM
Ourselves, other people, other animals, our mental and physical health, the environment - all comprise one 'substance' ethically-speaking. (Nature is the word I'd use.)
I think if you try to see nature holistically like this many moral 'issues' resolve themselves. The notion of self-interest collapses if you act in accordance with nature because to act against nature is detrimental to yourself.
In this context, living non-violently is the project - of which veganism is, or should be, an important expression.
Sep 21st, 2005, 07:25 AM
The thought of eating animals or their products is repulsive to me, and is totally unnecessary when there are so many goodies growing! Humans and non-humans are precious, so is the environment, and anyone can tell you that a vegan lifestyle is the most gentle on the planet.
I recommend that Francione book - as for the dog and the child, it has to be read in context. For example, if that dog were a well loved family companion, and the baby was the child who grew up to be Hitler - then what? No, you have to read the whole book which is one of his best. :)
Sep 22nd, 2005, 03:22 PM
I recommend that Francione book - as for the dog and the child, it has to be read in context. For example, if that dog were a well loved family companion, and the baby was the child who grew up to be Hitler - then what? No, you have to read the whole book which is one of his best. :) Then you don't know at this stage that the child is going to grow up to be Hitler.
Sep 23rd, 2005, 08:05 AM
But the point is, that sometimes a choice has to be made and it isn't always the obvious one. Kam, you said: "save the child if you can only save one - any philosophy that suggests otherwise seems seriously flawed to me." In any case, that is not Francione's philosophy by a long way. Do read the book. :D
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