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cog505
Oct 12th, 2005, 02:30 PM
I wish people would stop trying to justify veganism in a purely dietary sense. I think it devalues the cause. Whenever people ask me if I miss meat I say of course not. It's not like giving up cakes because you're fat or not eating wheat because it doesn't agree with you. Veganism has nothing to do with diet and everything to do with... compassion, respect, life, unselfishness, humanity etc... The taste of anything in my mouth for 5 seconds does not equate to the beauty and complexity of life.

Veganism is not a diet

eve
Oct 12th, 2005, 02:32 PM
You are absolutely right. :)

Plunder Bunnie
Oct 12th, 2005, 03:52 PM
I wish people would stop trying to justify veganism in a purely dietary sense. I think it devalues the cause. Whenever people ask me if I miss meat I say of course not. It's not like giving up cakes because you're fat or not eating wheat because it doesn't agree with you. Veganism has nothing to do with diet and everything to do with... compassion, respect, life, unselfishness, humanity etc... The taste of anything in my mouth for 5 seconds does not equate to the beauty and complexity of life.

Veganism is not a diet

Agreed!

Pilaf
Oct 12th, 2005, 04:56 PM
Veganism is indeed not a "diet." A friend of mine the other day suggested my "vegan diet" isn't making me lose weight and "you should eat some meat and lift weights like you used to."

I looked him dead in the eye and said "You have no idea of the deep philisophical and ethical roots to my Veganism". He changed the subject pretty quickly.

ConsciousCuisine
Oct 12th, 2005, 05:01 PM
I looked him dead in the eye and said "You have no idea of the deep philisophical and ethical roots to my Veganism". He changed the subject pretty quickly.

Pilaf, you remind me of me :D

Pilaf
Oct 12th, 2005, 05:03 PM
Should I be scared? :)

ConsciousCuisine
Oct 12th, 2005, 05:12 PM
Hmmm, I am never scared! I guess you don't have to worry...we aren't twins :D

Tigerlily
Oct 12th, 2005, 06:03 PM
Exactly, I agree.

Won't you just have a teeny bite of this cake I made? I know you want to!

No, it's not worth it! The chickens and the cows didn't only suffer a teeny bit for my teeny bite.

Pilaf
Oct 12th, 2005, 06:14 PM
Exactly. I'm not for going around preaching it to people, but if people constantly irritate me and try to push their cruelty food on me, I'll let them know exactly how I think.

vjonnyv
Oct 12th, 2005, 06:23 PM
My roommate, for some reason, has decided to be a vegan (but as I make progress and he cuts corners, he mocks how "extreme" I am). Anyway, he's doing it just for losing weight and I tell him that because of that, he's not a vegan. It's something that really does bother me.

twinkle
Oct 12th, 2005, 06:29 PM
Ah, it's a bit of a catch 22 that - now when he finally falls off the wagon for good he can tell people he quit because of "holier-than-thou" vegans who kept telling him he wasn't vegan enough, and everyone will nod :(

It's irritating when you think people don't quite get it, but even if he's doing it for the "wrong" reasons at least that's a toehold you can work on - my housemate is s-l-o-w-l-y edging towards veganism, but he won't look at any literature or tell people he's trying to become vegan unless he has to, it's like he's ashamed of it. I don't really know how to make that better.

Skajen
Oct 12th, 2005, 06:43 PM
i lost a tiny bit of weight (i mean tiny- still health size 10-12) when i turned vegan and when ppl wanted 2 know my secret i told them, they thought i was on some faddy diet! working in the mental health profession i notice a lot of people with eating disorders tend to be vegan because its restrictive, its a diet to many! to me its a lifestyle, i do it because its right not because i want to loose a few pounds!

Pilaf
Oct 12th, 2005, 07:05 PM
I agree completely with Jen. If someone happens to lose a little weight, that doesn't mean he/she turned Vegan just to lose weight. In the long run, that's not the real reason people stay Vegan.

sugarmouse
Oct 12th, 2005, 08:03 PM
on pro anorexia sites, i have frequently come across the advice 'go vegan' as an excuse not to eat.its just sad.

in that way,veganism is more like a religion to me...a paradigm or train of thought i follow 24 hours a day:)

vjonnyv
Oct 12th, 2005, 08:13 PM
Ah, it's a bit of a catch 22 that - now when he finally falls off the wagon for good he can tell people he quit because of "holier-than-thou" vegans who kept telling him he wasn't vegan enough, and everyone will nod :(

It's irritating when you think people don't quite get it, but even if he's doing it for the "wrong" reasons at least that's a toehold you can work on - my housemate is s-l-o-w-l-y edging towards veganism, but he won't look at any literature or tell people he's trying to become vegan unless he has to, it's like he's ashamed of it. I don't really know how to make that better.
I understand that. I don't like militant vegans, but I don't like people that aren't doing it properly. It's not just about what we eat, he doesn't seem to realize the complete transition in lifestyle. But it is difficult. He won't be a vegan for much longer, which is fine by me.

Anyway, I did lose a lot of weight becoming a vegan. And I mean a lot. I lost about 25 to 30 pounds, which is fairly significant. He noticed that, and I think that may have influenced his decision.

Roxy
Oct 12th, 2005, 08:18 PM
I once had a doctor of Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine tell me that he hopes I do not stay vegan for long because he doesn't think it's very healthy. I told him that I didn't think it was healthy for the animals, if I chose NOT to be vegan. He didn't continue the subject then.

Yes, I agree, Veganism involves diet but is so much more than diet. Not eating animal derived products in only one small part of such a big picture.

Pilaf
Oct 12th, 2005, 08:52 PM
on pro anorexia sites, i have frequently come across the advice 'go vegan' as an excuse not to eat.its just sad.

in that way,veganism is more like a religion to me...a paradigm or train of thought i follow 24 hours a day:)

Exactly. It's almost dogmatic to me. Not really "religion"...more like a practical, ethical set of rules to live one's life by.

John
Oct 12th, 2005, 11:21 PM
Just point out that your shoes aren't made of animals either.
What's that got to do with diet?

Pilaf
Oct 12th, 2005, 11:31 PM
Exactly. A good vegan learns to omit animal products from every practical aspect of his/her life.

Mystic
Oct 12th, 2005, 11:34 PM
I completely agree - and because I did have an eating disorder before, people tend to correlate the two issues. People would love it if I started eating animal products again, and I have often felt that to be "normal", I need to eat them. But I have come to realise that that is a load of crap, because the "diet" is a small portion of the entire spectrum. My shoes, belts and handbags are not made of animals, nor are my beauty products.

I cannot look at Odi in the eye and honestly believe that I have respect for animal life if I knowingly eat/wear or use them or their products.

It hurts me that pro-ana sites use animal advocacy as a means to mask their eating disorders. It gives us all a bad rep.

tipsy
Oct 12th, 2005, 11:34 PM
in that way,veganism is more like a religion to me...a paradigm or train of thought i follow 24 hours a day:)

agreed, agreed, and when people who im not going to debate with start debating with me that is basically what i tell them...

"i dont question you about your belifs, why are you trying to argue with me about mine!"

Pilaf
Oct 12th, 2005, 11:40 PM
Yes. I find it helpful not to try to "convert" people, either. If they ask a Vegan "why?", one of the best things that Vegan can do would be to provide that person with some free literature/web links to informative websites.

Of course that doesn't always work. Apparantly, my pitifully misinformed Uncle, whom is a bit of a conservative, thinks that I've joined a "cult" and that my bones are gonna break and I'm gonna die of brain swelling, despite me being the healthiest person in my immediate family. Omnis refuse to see Vegans as being healthy. The propoganda spread by the Meat, Dairy and Egg industries is so engrained in the world's conscience nowadays that people believe in it.

Propoganda can be a powerful tool indeed. Just look at Nazi Germany. Were they right? No.. but the upper echelon, the corrupt and evil people behind the scenes, uses propoganda and rhetoric to spread their views, just like the cruel Ani-ploitation industries do today to keep Vegans down.

The best thing we can do, overall, for our "image" is to attempt to appear modest, unassuming and helpful to others. Remember that they honestly don't know any better. The world is in bad need of an education about Veganism, and we all can do our part, indivudually.

cog505
Oct 12th, 2005, 11:59 PM
I don't think it's helpful to use Nazi germany as a reference point for the rights of being a vegan. It concentrates on a purely evil act when veganism is about love and compassion. I hate this argument and I think it polarises veganism and makes it look extreme.

Besides anything else it's 60 years out of date.

Save extreme rationale for the righteous religious out there... they're doing a great job of f**king the world up...

Plunder Bunnie
Oct 13th, 2005, 12:12 AM
Wow, a little harsh

cog505
Oct 13th, 2005, 12:24 AM
It was a bit harsh. I was actually just thinking of that religious lunatic cowboy who inhabits the whitehouse, the fat one that inhabits the occupied territories of Gaza and half the leaders in the middle east.

Sorry Plunder bunny.