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Yogini
Oct 30th, 2005, 01:41 AM
I always worried a little bit about sharing recipes that were published in cookbooks or magazines, particularly about sharing them online. But I just started working on a Masters of Library Science and last week we discussed copyright law. According to my professor, recipes are not protected by U.S. copyright statutes! So we actually aren't breaking any laws! Yay!

Love,
Anna

Mr Flibble
Oct 30th, 2005, 09:26 AM
According to my professor, recipes are not protected by U.S. copyright statutes! So we actually aren't breaking any laws! Yay!

Contrary to popular american beleif, the internet is not american :eek:

How does US copyright law compare to international copyright law on the subject? Whilst this server is hosted in the US, many of it's posters are not US citizens and subject to their own laws. For instance, some pornography which is legal in germany and held on german servers is illegal to access in the UK.

John
Oct 30th, 2005, 09:03 PM
Contrary to popular american beleif, the internet is not american :eek:

Actually, the Internet is American.:p It was invented by the USA and:

"ICANN is the governing body of the Internet's physical presence. Currently administered by the United States of America, talks in the past have resulted in the US reneging on a Clinton Administration promise to bring the auspices of the Internet under an international body."

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet#ICANN)

Yogini
Oct 30th, 2005, 09:06 PM
I have access to Westlaw and will research international copyright law when I get the chance. I have to houseclean today. :(

Love,
Anna

ConsciousCuisine
Oct 30th, 2005, 09:11 PM
The recipes (ingredients) themselves aren't protected, but the instructions (directions) are.

Mr Flibble
Oct 30th, 2005, 09:16 PM
can you patent a manufacturing process of food in the same way you can a pharmacutical?

eve
Nov 28th, 2005, 06:22 AM
Actually, the Internet is American.:p It was invented by the USA
Actually, John, the internet is not american. Yesterday I had a chat with a law professor who is the leading intellectual property authority in the world. After our little chat on other matters, I mentioned this query about the cook book, and your comment about the US owning the internet. He confirmed that the US does not own the internet.

As far as breaching copyright is concerned, he confirmed that as CC remarked, the ingredients listing is not copyright, but the method IS. He said that the person compiling a new cookbook to go on the internet, can simply use a recipe from another book, but adapt the method in some way; it can be a minor adaptation. If that person is in Australia, she can apply for copyright for her cookbook (where the same applies that someone can copy the ingredients but not the method). :)

cedarblue
Nov 28th, 2005, 07:56 AM
as far as i understand it, if one posts a recipe here say, from a book, if one credits the book, states somewhere something like 'adapted from the recipe' and makes changes to the method in following the recipe so it is not exactly the same, things should be ok.

Mr Flibble
Nov 28th, 2005, 08:28 AM
Actually, John, the internet is not american. Yesterday I had a chat with a law professor who is the leading intellectual property authority in the world. After our little chat on other matters, I mentioned this query about the cook book, and your comment about the US owning the internet. He confirmed that the US does not own the internet.

I think the point is that the US control the root DNS servers. If they decided to take them all offline the internet as we know it would grind to a halt for potentially several days whilst the rest of the world (such as ripe or apnic) made their own and ISPs updated their DNS servers to point to them.

harpy
Nov 28th, 2005, 09:32 AM
My understanding is the same as cedarblue's - if you credit the source or make some wording/ingredients changes (or presumably both, ideally) you are likely to be OK.

Realistically, authors and publishers are liable to get upset if someone makes a large chunk of a book freely available, but they aren't going to object to a bit of free publicity.

Korn
Nov 28th, 2005, 10:16 AM
I think the important thing is to respect the person who has made the cookbook, and not instead try to create workarounds for not being caught in breaking copyright law. If a vegan makes a cookbook and posts some recipes on internet, he probably wouldn't copyright the page if he would be OK with having the recipe posted somewhere else. If he would be happy with having his recipes copied, I guess he rather would have added that it's OK to post the recipe elsewhere if you add a link to the source.

I also think it's irrelevant if internet is to be considered American or not. A person has to follow the laws (well, he doesn't have to) of the country he lives in, and if he posts something illegal from that country, readable by others in the same country, it doesn't really matter if he posts in on the net or puts a sticker on his car... even if internet or his car happened to be American from a legal point of view.

I think it's great that some people are making vegan cookbooks or vegan recipe sites, and that we should let them decide how we should deal with this. If they don't want the recipe to be posted somewhere else than on their own site, or in their book, please don't post it here. But this isn't really a problem - it's always possible to send them a mail and ask if you're in doubt.

John
Nov 28th, 2005, 10:54 PM
Yeah, I think it might be wrong to post copyrighted recipes. Why would they copyright the book if they wanted people to freely distribute the recipes? Let's consider the people working for a living to make vegan cookbooks. :)

BTW, I was only making what I think is an interesting digression pertaining to the Internet. I don't think it bears much importance to this conversation.

Artichoke47
Nov 29th, 2005, 01:20 AM
I just don't think people should worry about posting 1/300th of a cookbook on the internet, giving the author credit and giving the title of the cookbook. If anything, it will promote sales.

Tigerlily
Nov 29th, 2005, 02:20 AM
Yeah and we aren't selling these recipes either! Just sharing some good food.

John
Nov 29th, 2005, 11:07 PM
I've noticed that thieves always have some sort of justification for their actions.

Artichoke47
Nov 29th, 2005, 11:58 PM
haha. I've bought about 48 vegan cookbooks.

Artichoke47
Nov 29th, 2005, 11:59 PM
And if you count the ones I've given as gifts, probably 55.

I don't need a justification; I was explaining that sharing a recipe does not hurt an author.

Tigerlily
Nov 30th, 2005, 02:45 AM
I've noticed that thieves always have some sort of justification for their actions.

Yes, why pay when I can get it for free?

jillian
Nov 30th, 2005, 03:41 PM
I just don't think people should worry about posting 1/300th of a cookbook on the internet, giving the author credit and giving the title of the cookbook. If anything, it will promote sales.I think people should worry about posting 1/300th of a cookbook. What if everyone who chose to break the law posted a different recipe? It would essentially be possible, then, for various individuals to make the entire cookbook available online. It's also a touch naive to think that anyone who creates anything does it merely for the credit. Do you work? Does your boss pay you with money, or "a little credit"? There are a lot of fantastic vegan cookbook authors out there, and I would hate to see them get out of the game because they feel they can no longer make money on their work.

Tigerlily
Nov 30th, 2005, 04:37 PM
Do you download music, Jill? Or movies?

jillian
Nov 30th, 2005, 04:55 PM
Do you download music, Jill? Or movies?No. The only condition in which I would download music is if I paid for a service. Just because you can get something for free doesn't mean it's right for you to do so. But I presume that every person here that pushes for circumventing copyright law has never created anything in his/her life. Each creator has the right to permit usage of his/her work as s/he sees fit (provided that there is no publisher, record label, etc. that is part of the legal deal). If writers/musicians/artists want their work to be part of the public domain, it's fortunate for people who want access to it but can't afford to purchase it.

A thief is a thief no matter the genre.

Artichoke47
Nov 30th, 2005, 06:42 PM
This is just ridiculous to suggest that someone is a thief. I purchased something; I can share the content of it with others, not the exact content, but something similiar.

Do you let others use your toothpaste that you bought?

Artichoke47
Nov 30th, 2005, 06:47 PM
Also, who are these legal experts claiming is the thief? The one sharing the recipes or the one reading the recipes?

Just so I know how to respond to these alleged thefts...LOL

Artichoke47
Nov 30th, 2005, 06:55 PM
And I hope none of the accusers on here ever watch a movie or listen to music without buying the DVD or CD themselves. No borrowing from a friend or listening to free radio is allowed. :cool:

jillian
Nov 30th, 2005, 07:31 PM
Also, who are these legal experts claiming is the thief? The one sharing the recipes or the one reading the recipes?

Just so I know how to respond to these alleged thefts...LOLIt disturbs me that you find this funny. If someone admitted to taking 99 cent lipstick from the dime store would you still laugh? Intellectual property crime is still crime.


And I hope none of the accusers on here ever watch a movie or listen to music without buying the DVD or CD themselves. No borrowing from a friend or listening to free radio is allowed.
This is not a paralell situation. Once you give out a recipe it is forever in the possession of the recipient, provided that the recipient does not lose the copy. This is equivalent to copying a CD or DVD and giving it to a friend. Loaning out your property is not the same. The object in question is in your possession, then someone else's possession, then yours again. You can do anything you wish with the object, in general, except replicate it for distribution purposes (even if that is distribution of one). (If you meant to say "No, borrowing from a friend or listening to free radio is allowed" -- note the inclusion of a comma -- then forgive me as you would be arguing a different point entirely.)

I know a lot of people have a difficult time viewing intellectual property as property, but it is. I'm probably not far out suggesting that most individuals on this site would not walk into a store, take something off the shelf and leave without paying for it. People need to consider that taking recipes, music, movies, games, etc. without paying for them (if that is not what the creator intended) is the same thing. Even if the creator chooses to offer a recipe or two from his/her cookbook on his/her website, that does not mean that is open license to share it around with everyone, particularly online where an extremely large group of people will have access to it. You have to take into consideration that when cookbook authors choose to share recipes online, there is usually careful deliberation about which to share. Anything the author considers to be the intergral selling point of the book is never going to make it online. The author wants the public to buy the book for those particular recipes. A casual owner of the cookbook is not going to have that kind of discretion, and, at least in the U.S., the law is not on his/her side.