Is soya bad for your health?

[Gorilla]

true slinkyvagabond, soya is in so many processed foods these days surely that would help if they removed it. i expect they feed animals on soy and pad out processed foods with it to keep costs down.

i make my own soya milk and buy only UK-grown organic beans as they're certified non-GM and will obviously never be planted in a former rainforest! i buy tofu from a company who say they don't use beans from vulnerable areas, although i have a tofu making kit so when i get round to it i'll try making my own with my UK beans. :)

[eve]

Maybe they should stop using soy in icky processed foods. Most soy-fans, like us, won't touch that crap, and most people who live on a processed diet, like omnis, are soy-phobic otherwise. And they could stop raising animals for slaughter on soy based foods. Or stop raising them for slaughter, period. Just a thought.

Rather judgmental today aren't you? What sort of soy do you buy that has not been processed? Just the raw soybeans? Don't most people live on a mainly processed diet? Apart from fruit, vegetables, and nuts, most foods have been processed in one way or another, including soymilk. Who are the soy-phobics? Most soy grown for human consumption finds its way into all sorts of foods, including bread, and of course bread is also processed. But I do agree that it would be good to stop raising animals for slaughter.

[Gorilla]

i can't speak for slinkyvagabond, but i'm not slagging off processed foods as i eat a fair amount of them. what i thought was that it's usually the really cheap, highly-processed foods that are filled out with soya to keep costs down (in the UK at least), and these are the foods people should probably eat less of as they're usually also high in fat, sugar and salt, with little nutritonal value.

just a suggestion :confused:

[Finch]

I really hope this isn't all true. Isoflavones acting like oestrogen and slowing sperm in men? Is it true Vegan men have a harder time getting their women pregnant? It doesn't focus solely on slow sperm in men, but also on how soy is eating away at the forests of the world.

Guardian article (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/foodmonthly/story/0,9950,1342291,00.html)

[Artichoke47]

Soy isn't eating away at the forests; mankind and his destructive mind is!

I wouldn't be concerned about consuming soy in moderation, like tofu twice a week or something.

[John]

Wow, soy makes it harder to get a woman pregnant? Another reason to eat more soy!

Seriously, to use the example of forest destruction in this context is disingenuous. Almost all of this soy is grown as feed for livestock.

BTW, you can save Korn work by posting in already-existing threads such as Anti-Soy? (http://veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=626).

[neoveg]

I'm just passing through most of the posts on this topic, but I wanted to chime in really quick. I've been digging around a lot lately about the pros and cons of soy. From everything I've found (from both veggie and non-veggie sources) soy in its raw form (bean, tofu, temphe, milk) are not as bad as soy protein isolates. I ditched all the fake meat foods about six months ago after learning that the protein isolates could possibly be more harmful than beneficial to your health. Processed foods, in general, are not good for you.

Arguments that Asian cultures use soy all the time and they are "okay" are not a valid in my opinion. They don't use soy as their main source of protein like many western vegans do.

I contacted a few of the fake meat companies this past summer and most of them would not comment on the use of protein isolates. The makers of Tofurkey sent me a great response stating they don't and won't use soy protein isolates because of the risks it make carry. They said it was just their opinion and not proven one way or another. So I'll still use their products. It was pretty cool too .. when I sent the emails out I didn't want to come across like I was interrogating anyone .. just casually asked if they used them in their products .. so it was funny that I got the "no way" response.

I know this belongs on another thread, but it scares me to hear about parents feeding their infants soy as much as they do. I hope research is done thoroughly someday to prove pros and cons one way or the other. I make sure I balance my kids diets out w/soy and other non-soy (veggie) protein sources until they are older and more developed.

Don't be fooled by the research too ... soy has its lobbyists just the same a meat does. It's big business for both worlds.

[foxytina_69]

well soy hasnt killed anyone yet so im not giving it up LOL.

[eve]

famous last words?

[kokopelli]

I really hope this isn't all true. Isoflavones acting like oestrogen and slowing sperm in men? Is it true Vegan men have a harder time getting their women pregnant?

If it is true, how come China and Japan are so highly populated?
From my own personal experience, I have 3 vegan soy-consuming children by my vegan soy-consuming partner, and we're all fine.

I used to worry a lot more about diet when I first became a vegan, and I do think it's important to be aware of all the issues, but I also think that people can become obsessed with potential problems, when we can see every day the negative health and environmental consequences of animal based diets.

[kokopelli]

I do agree that it's probably better to avoid industrial highly-processed soy products, though...although I do use TVP sometimes, mostly we eat soy in the form of tofu and soymilk, and I agree that it's a good idea to get protein from a variety of sources and not totally rely on soy products.

In any case, the whole protein issue tends to be overplayed...actually it'd probably be quite hard NOT to get enough protein.

[Trendygirl]

This makes me so mad when people slag off Soya and make is sound like it is really bad for you! Like dead animals are good for you right?

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/life/story/0,6903,359663,00.html

If this article has got you confused I recomend watching the video lectures by some great doctors at....

http://www.vegsource.com/

and...

http://www.drgreger.org/talks/

[stickydate]

Hey Trendygirl - there is so much propaganda within the industry - both dairy/meat as well as soya. I don't know what to believe so I just eat what I want coz I like it or I don't (as long as it is vegan coz I don't believe in factory farming). I personally don't eat soy coz I don't like it (besides tempeh)

[PinkFluffyCloud]

HeHe, as Bender says (Futurama) - "Kiss my shiny metal ass!". :D
Just eat/drink it if it's Vegan and it feels good to you, I say! :)

[Trendygirl]

I love Soy but it took me a while to really appreciate it!

You are right there is lots of propaganda from both the dairy/meat industry as well as the Soy industry after all there are both big business! That’s why I posted the links by the doctors, the lectures are quite long but well worth a watch. I have seen and read quite a bit about these doctors and the good thing is that they are not tied to any industry. They are all MD’s and they make a lot of sense. I always try to have a good dose of scepticism and try think for myself. What they were saying made sense when I thought about what they were saying. I even e-mailed one of them once about linseeds/flax and he got back to me about even though he is extremely busy and there was no propaganda in the e-mail. At the end of the day I am not a scientist or a doctor but from everything I learnt I would say the article slagging of Soy is a lode of crap.

[Trendygirl]

This quote is what made me most suspicious about the anti soy article

....you need to eat, as the Japanese do, lots of meat or fish with tiny bits of soya.

Far as I knew everyone should be cutting down on meat consumption and the Japanese eat a lot less of it than people in the west, but this is not what the article suggests!

[feline01]

A longetivity study done recently showed that the group of people who live the longest are the Okinawans (Japanese) and they consume some of the highest amounts of soy, in the form of tofu primarily, than most groups in the world.

[Panda]

I have read a lot about processed Soy products and health and I don't think that just because it isn't meat you can dismiss the claims that it isn't good for the health. I personnally won't touch soy products, with the exception of organic tofu because that is a fermented soy which hasn't had anything done to it and has been lived on for centuries. I know that there is lots of propaghanda going round about this. But we can't just dismiss it just because we are vegan. The soy milk industry is booming now and no one really knows what too much processed and alteration of soy can do to the body.

I am just writing this because I am concerned about all health for everyone and its not a good idea for us just to decide what is good and bad for us just because of our feelings. I am sure its a lot better then dairy but just be aware and research and try to see both sides of the equation.

[eve]

I agree with Panda that organic tofu is fine, but I'd certainly never touch soy protein isolates. Just because something is soy, doesn't make it good, especially American soy which is mostly genetically modified.

[Trendygirl]

I know what you mean about Soy being messed around with too much and I don’t think that is a good thing and that could cause some problems. However this article was suggesting that all soy is bad for you and the article seemed like it had been wrote by someone with some sort of affiliation to the meat industry or it wouldn’t have told the readers to eat lots of meat.

I know that just because something is from the plant kingdom doesn’t mean that it is healthy. However I as said before I trust what the vegan Doctors have said about it and the fact that millions of people have been eating it for thousands of years. I don’t want to sound narrow minded but I think that a lot of this stuff that has been wrote about soy not being good for you is down to the lucrative meat industry getting frightened of it’s rise in popularity.

[eve]

Nobody has been eating soy isolates for thousands of years, it is relatively new. And it is still essential for vegans to read the ingredients listing on all labels.

[feline01]

Probably stupid question but how is soy lecithin derived. It seems to be in everything these days and very hard to avoid.

Anyone know?

[Trendygirl]

Have you read the article? I am not going to dispute soy isolates as I don’t know enough about them. The article is talking about soy is not talking about isolates.

This is an abstract:

I'm vegetarian and eat loads of tofu and soya milk. Should I stop?

Soya has become vegetarians' meat and milk, the major source of protein in their diet. But eating soya actually puts vegetarians at severe risk of mineral deficiencies, including calcium, copper, iron, magnesium and especially zinc. According to Dr Mike Fitzpatrick, a New Zealand biochemist who runs a soya information website (see below), this is because soya contains high levels of phytic acid, which blocks the absorption of essential minerals in the digestive tract. To reduce the effects of a high-phytate diet, you need to eat, as the Japanese do, lots of meat or fish with tiny bits of soya. :mad:

It is telling veggies to eat meat!

[Trendygirl]

Also.....

Is soya bad for you?

It contains high quantities of various toxic chemicals, which cannot be fully destroyed even by the long cooking process. These are: phytates, which block the body's uptake of minerals; enzyme inhibitors, which hinder protein digestion; and haemaggluttin, which causes red blood cells to clump together and inhibits oxygen take-up and growth. Most controversially of all, soya contains high levels of the phytoestrogens (also known as isoflavones) genistein and daidzein, which mimic and sometimes block the hormone oestrogen.

I am sorry but I don't believe that soy is bad for you! If you mess around with it too much like you say with isolates but plain soy no.

[feline01]

Have you read the article?

Yes, that's how I formulated my question. I don't blindly post in threads based on an article. The article didn't say and I wasn't clear if soy lecithin is a form of soy isolate or is something completely different.

Did you somehow get the impression I was implying I agree soy is bad? I certainly don't think it is though I agree about moderation and avoiding highly processed soy products. Which leads me back to my original question regarding soy lecithin, I don't know if that is considered highly processed.