Is soya bad for your health?

[eve]

There are some controversies surrounding soy products, and some people (like me) avoid soy protein in various products. So this week when our national broadcaster, ABC radio national, had an interview on the Health Report on this subject, I listened and found it very instructive. The abc keeps its interviews on the website for a month - here's the interview:
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/helthrpt/stories/s1150263.htm

[i_like_deer]

john robbins (aka the guy who wrote diet for a new america) wrote an article about soy & he addresses pretty much every point that's been brought up about how soy might be bad. i found it quite informative and balanced:

http://www.foodrevolution.org/what_about_soy.htm

[harpy]

I've been doing what I think John Robbins (or maybe it was someone else) recommends, which means avoiding soy "isolates" and other highly-processed soy products and extracts, while still eating (moderate amounts of) more traditional versions such as tofu and tempeh. That seems to be roughly what the ABC guy suggests too? Will remember to check my soy milk cartons more carefully though. Thanks for the link.

[John]

I wonder if anyone is familiar with the anti-soy movement. Are these people for real or is this some kind of anti-vegetarian sneakiness?

If soy is so bad, why does the traditional Japanese diet produce such long lives? Is it the processing?

Any info?

[Sabster]

I was looking at a thread on raw foods and there was a link to a site that linked to anti-soy sources. I'll do a quick search. Someone will find something wrong with just about everything.

I was reading through the site and I find it hard to take something seriously when it's seriously lacking in references/actual research. It listed a lot of comments that alluded to high doses. Well, I don't think most people take high doses of such and such so it doesn't exactly apply (a kind of what's the point). The structure of the material looked rather poor too.

I don't know that I'd make much of it. I guess it could be a start. Perhaps others will have more respectable sources.

It sounded like the equivalent one of the vegan arguments against milk to some degree. It's a high allergen and most people lack the ability to digest it, to paraphrase. I don't think the site was anti-veg, but I wouldn't doubt it as an argument from the non-veg side of the table.

[TheFirstBus]

Anti Soy movement. As a soy supporter I am going to say thats just sad, just sad...

[Sabster]

I forgot about this thread: Soy Products (http://www.veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=484)

Other than that... I can't find the links I was looking at yesterday. That's a start though. The articles that are linked to are more neutral, which is nice.

[phillip888]

Once it was established that soy was a good source of protein, the animal slavery industry in general lost it's last (false) claim to nutritional necessity. Now that it's common knowledge that dead animals are not the only source of protein, they have put a lot of effort in to swaying consumers from soy by paying ethically challenged writers with official sounding titles to do some dirty PR work. One of the more famouse being sally fallon who's current front is the weston price organization (you will find this mentioned by animal slavery industry lobbyists a lot right now).

[ConsciousCuisine]

There is much controversy surrounding soy and its effects on humans. (Go figure?) I personally know people who avoid it and believe that it is toxic and others who eat is everyday and feel great about doing so. Some peole feel that it is only un-processed soy that carries risks.

A few things are clear- soy protein has been proven to help reduce the risks and incidnece of cardiovascular disease, has been credited for lowering cholesterol, prevention of osteoporosis, reducing the risk of developing breast and prostate cancer, and fermented soy products especially provide vital b-12 and other nutrients necessary for vegans health.

Also, many people who have eaten the S.A.D are accustomed to consuming more protein and concentrated protein than a simple "whole foods" vegan diet supplies. The use of tofu and tempeh along with other concentrated nutrient/protein foods is often a big part of a healthy transition towards a more unprocessed, cruelty-free diet.

That being said, I do know that after becoming vegetarian or vegan many people over-consume soy and other foods that the S.A.D. is lacking in and can develop food sensitivities that usually resolve if one takes a brief break from soy and then reintroduces it inot the diet slowly and as a supplemental food. Most of the cases I know of occured in people who were eating soy analogues, (milk, meat substitutes, soy cream etc.) that made up 50% of their caloric intake. Note that this "sensitivity reaction" can occur when over-consuming any food. I have seen it happen with corn, wheat, avocadoes and tomatoes as well.

[John]

Thanks. I looked around on this forum but I guess I overlooked that other thread. Reading the John Robbins article made me feel a lot better. It's good to hear something from our side on the topic.

What I got from the article was that eating soy in the traditional manner is fine. And that's the way I eat it (tofu, tempeh, soymilk, etc.). However, the anti-soy people say that even that way is bad, since the companies don't use ancient, time-consuming methods to extract toxins.

I liked how Robbins pointed out that plenty of vegetables contain toxins and carcinogens in small quantities. I guess those vegetables really don't like to be eaten after all.

Now that I think about it, I wonder where these anti-soy groups and scientists are getting their funding. . . I suppose that human demand for soy doesn't do much for cheap soy-based livestock feed either. There I go again with my over-active imagination.

[slinkyvagabond]

My dad used to be perfectly fine with buying me soy milk when I first discovered I was lactose-intolerant (about 5 years ago), but as I became vegetarian/vegan and the soy milk became a "vegan issue" rather than just a digestion issue, he got pretty stubborn about it and makes it into a big argument whenever I put it on my shopping list.

It doesn't help that his Atkins-worshipping girlfriend, who's also a nurse, thinks veg[etari]anism is idiocy and starvation and has fed him a bunch of anti-soy propaganda, which he blindly buys into because she works in the medical field and is therefore an automatic infallible authority on the situation. She claims that the increased use of soy in processed foods since the 70s or so has thrown children's growth patterns terribly out of whack due to the hormones in it.

It's gotten to the point where I'm not allowed to give my little cousins chocolate soy milk or soy ice cream, hot dogs etc when we babysit them because apparently one little bit of soy-based food is going to harm them significantly and send them headlong into puberty at ages 4 and 6. Their mother has made it abundantly clear that she doesn't want them eating "that hippie garbage," though she's always having Boca burgers. I guess it doesn't matter that all the junk food and "normal" foods the kids usually eat have soy in them. *rolls eyes*

[Roxy]

Slinky, I'm sorry to hear that you have to deal with such attitudes from your family. Of course, you have to respect the mother's wishes when it comes to feeding the children - however - it really makes me wonder how some people thrive on such paranoia about things. They are obviously not making an informed decision, rather they are making a biased decision based on propaganda given to them by a nurse - not a nutritionist.

Good to see you sticking to your guns!

Roxy

[veganmike]

It doesn't help that his Atkins-worshipping girlfriend, who's also a nurse, thinks veg[etari]anism is idiocy and starvation and has fed him a bunch of anti-soy propaganda, which he blindly buys into because she works in the medical field and is therefore an automatic infallible authority on the situation. She claims that the increased use of soy in processed foods since the 70s or so has thrown children's growth patterns terribly out of whack due to the hormones in it.

Ridiculous! Atkins people put massive ammounts of soy in their products. Just check www.atkins.com and their line of Atkins own brand food. Soy lecithin, soy protein isolate and so on.

FAQ on their webiste stated (I couldn't find that one today, maybe it's gone) that you CAN be vegetarian and still follow Atkins, but you would have to eat lots of high protein foods such as dairy, eggs and... soy-based products such as tofu!

Nurses should stay out of nutrition. lol :)

[ConsciousCuisine]

She claims that the increased use of soy in processed foods since the 70s or so has thrown children's growth patterns terribly out of whack due to the hormones in it.

It's gotten to the point where I'm not allowed to give my little cousins chocolate soy milk or soy ice cream, hot dogs etc when we babysit them because apparently one little bit of soy-based food is going to harm them significantly and send them headlong into puberty at ages 4 and 6. *
I have seen dairy do this exact thing. Early puberty is often stimulated by hormones in milk and other animal products. Once adopting a vegan diet, the progression slows down to a "normal" rate for the children in every case I have seen.

[slinkyvagabond]

I have seen dairy do this exact thing. Early puberty is often stimulated by hormones in milk and other animal products. Once adopting a vegan diet, the progression slows down to a "normal" rate for the children in every case I have seen.

That's so interesting, because their mother constantly gives them dairy milk! She thinks it's very healthy for them, and from the discussions we've had I sense it's her way of sort of extending breastfeeding, if that makes any sense, though they were of course weaned long ago. She's a big proponent of breastfeeding and understandably feels she's much closer to her kids because of it, but can't grasp that the dairy industry robs cows and their calves of that same vital bond.

But I digress. I should probably bring up that the four year-old, who drinks more milk than her sister, has been lately getting frequent short stints of flu-like sickness--sometimes with such high fevers that she has to go to the emergency room once or twice per bout--and losing weight at a time when kids should still probably have a little chub on them. The doctors say it's possibly a metabolic disorder (though no bloodwork has been done yet to determine this)...could it be caused by all the milk?

[ConsciousCuisine]

Well, I can tell you that dairy sensitivities are common and can cause just the type of symptoms you are describing. Drinking milk interferes with the absorbtion of many vital nutrients and actually leaches calcium form your system...Dairy is a terrible thing to give to any living, growing creature except for the one it was intended for...the baby of the one producing the dairy!

[korova]

i just read up about it & i have to say that i'm still very skeptical about it all.

[ConsciousCuisine]

Korova, which part of the issue are you skeptical about? Are you pro or anti soy?
:)

[John]

The more I think about it the sillier the charges seem. Not to mention based on very flimsy evidence. I'm going to stick with soy. It kind of sucks that meat-eaters are dissing tofu through pseudo-science now.

[Gorilla]

this is an interesting article on soya from my local newspaper:

www.thisisbrightonandhove.co.uk/brighton__hove/health/FOOD_FOR_THOUGHT161.html

[phillip888]

this is an interesting article on soya from my local newspaper:

www.thisisbrightonandhove.co.uk/brighton__hove/health/FOOD_FOR_THOUGHT161.html (http://www.thisisbrightonandhove.co.uk/brighton__hove/health/FOOD_FOR_THOUGHT161.html)
"Vegetarians should eat a mixture of cereals and pulses, as plant proteins have insufficient amounts of the essential amino acids necessary for growth and maintenance of healthy muscles and organs"

I hate it when a persuasive article is saying the right things, then dumps this absurdity on the reader. Pulses and cerials are 100% unnecesary for optimum protein intake. To see a supposed nutritionist say they are in an article is disturbing. It means I have to read the rest of the article as 'probably not true' and then do research to find out the truth.

[eve]

http://act.greenpeace.org/ams/e?a=1439&s=ensoya - this is a Greenpeace website regarding soya - it starts by saying Greenpeace is campaigning globally against genetically engineered (GE) soya and determined to protect China, the homeland of soya, from contamination by GE soya. Take action, be part of our global effort to build the Cyber Great Wall and keep GE soya away from the world, especially from China , the homeland of soya!

Every grain of GE soya imported into China is a potential source of contamination. To protect the homeland of soya, we demand that companies stop importing GE soya into China.

[Fruitbat]

As in all things - soy in moderation. Also t is probably wise to avoid excessive processed soy products like soy burgers, suy nuggets, soy bacon, soy cheese, soy ice cream and dairy substitutes as many have high fat levels. I think it is important to include some soy in the diet - I use tofu but not excessive amounts. Soy may have many health benefits but I am sure there is no need to consume all soy to get those benefits and by having other things as well you get the benefits of other foods (such as beans, lentils etc). Soy is shown to lower cholestherol but there is no reason for a vegan to have high cholestherol anyway so there is no reason to consume soy products for that...

[eve]

I've read a report by conservationists that the spiralling foreign demand for soya beans could mean the loss of millions of hectares of forest and savannah in South America. A WWF report, Managing The Soy Boom: Two Scenarios Of Soy Production Expansion In South America, says the area cultivated for soya in countries like Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, and Paraguay has more than doubled since 1994.

Soya accounts for about 70% of oil meals used in animal feed in Europe. As soya is one of the most sought-after crops in the world, it is crucial that consumers can eventually buy a product that does not contribute to the destruction of South America's natural wealth.
:confused:

[slinkyvagabond]

Maybe they should stop using soy in icky processed foods. Most soy-fans, like us, won't touch that crap, and most people who live on a processed diet, like omnis, are soy-phobic otherwise. And they could stop raising animals for slaughter on soy based foods. Or stop raising them for slaughter, period.

Just a thought.