Things meat eaters say and do

[sandra]

I'm speechless rianaelf.

[Melanie]

Oh my :(

[keykeypie]

"Yes, it's a small price to pay for being so tasty." I was a bit grouchy for the rest of the ride.

Hi Null,
can I ask you something? Why didn't you speak up if it bothered you?
How can we ever expect things to change if we don't speak up.....if not us, then who?

[null_void]

I do speak up sometimes. I guess in this particular instance, someone had already pointed out that the practice was pretty inhumane... I wasn't sure what I could add that would have changed this person's mind. Also, I'm not so good at talking about these things without making people think I'm just a "crazy vegan." If I talk with someone about it, I want it to be in a way that will actually cause them to consider what I'm saying. What would you have said in the same situation, out of curiosity?

[fiamma]

Hi null void,
I think a book that could help you greatly is "Empty Cages" by Tom Regan. I've only just started it, but he writes about the nature of human and animal rights and why they are so important. And he writes that animals and humans are equal because they are aware of being in the world, and they take an interest in what is around them. He also gives other reasons why animals and humans are equal, these are just two examples. I haven't gotten any further in the book but it seems logical to me from this standpoint that we all have the ability to suffer. We are not equal in the fact that dogs don't express an interest in going to the cinema and cats don't harbour ambitions of going to university, to give two examples, but we share the same physiological makeup (same internal organs), thus we can be considered equal in this respect. I think one of the biggest hurdles to progress in the AR movement is getting people to consider animals and people as equals. In your situation I probably would have asked him what he knows about the veal industry, and ask him how he thinks this is justifiable. And I'd ask him why he thinks animals are inferior to people. I think in situations like these you need to turn the situation round and when they say "Why don't you eat meat?" you answer "Well why do you eat it?" It seems so illogical to have to defend a non-violent action in the face of a violent one. I think it could lead to an interesting discussion and maybe get him to examine his own views. But from his original comment it seems unlikely.

[sandra]

I would love to be able to speak to people in a calm and reasoned manner when discussing the horrible treatment animals receive at the hands of human beings. I think it gets your point across more effectively if you can do that, but unfortunately with me I get very emotional.
As I said in my post to Null void I would end up giving a lecture as I am so enraged and upset. I have in the past stood at a family gathering shouting at someone because they angered me so much with their attitude to animals!
I wish I could learn to communicate better as it would help get my point across more efficiently. The book you are reading sounds good fiamma!

[null_void]

Indeed. Perhaps the library (or amazon.com) might have it.

[philfox]

i always think of a fantastic argument/comment at night 8 hours after said conversation :rolleyes:
everytime i ask someone why they eat meat they say cos they like it. how do you answer to something as silly. i might (strictly hypothetically) like someone to do all my housework, cleaning and laundry and to work on a farm for me, but slavery is immoral as is pointless slaughter for no real reason (i wouldnt actually like a slave btw, just an example :p
would that be a strong enough answer? i'd probably get, animals arent as important as people, stop comparing or something.
i often bite my tongue as people never understand what i try to say
i did animal rights (well the ethics of xenotransplantation) for my degree dissertation so researched a lot in various ways but people always treat my comments as dumb because i am being 'over emotional' even though i speak calmly and composed

[keykeypie]

What would you have said in the same situation, out of curiosity?
Hi Null,
Me? Oh well I'm a New Yorker so you can probably guess.
It would go something like this:
"Yes, it's a small price to pay for being so tasty."

"You Know somethin' "Joe" you're a f***king piece of crap! You DO know that don't you"?
Case closed!"

But then that's the way everybody talks to everybody around here.

But it's EXACTLY like Fiamma said.....
"It seems so illogical to have to defend a non-violent action in the face of a violent one."

RIGHT!! How can that not be illogical.

I guess my point is I don't think I could change anybody but I'll be dammed if I'm going to waste my freedom of speech by not letting them know......hey.....YOU......IT'S NOT ALLRIGHT WHAT YOU'RE DOING!

But.....I admit, there are many times I've kept silent.......I just kinda wished I hadn't.

[meggymaggoo]

What would you have said in the same situation, out of curiosity?

I would have asked him to explain exactly what they do do to calves to 'create' veal. Hopefully by saying it out loud he may have got a bad reaction from others not just you and may have reconsidered later? Even better he may have been bluffing and not actually know what happens.

Then again...

It also depends on mood though doesn't it? Some days you might not feel strong enough, or clear enough to argue succintly. On those days it may be better to say less than feed the 'over emotional' vegan tag.

[sandra]

Exactly, meggymaggoo! I think I've been labelled with that tag in the past! :( So am working on a more measured approach, it works much better. :)

[meggymaggoo]

Takes an enormous amount of discipline though doesn't it?!

Wherever I can I like to use words and phrases that are often used against those who feel passionately for animals. Such as 'sensible', 'practical', 'I believe you may be being over emotional', etc.

I know there are loads but I can't think right now - what other phrases to people hear a lot?

:)

[sandra]

That's a good idea, turn the tables on them! When they say to me 'they're only animals' I am speechless because I have such strong feelings. How can they say something like that? As if being an animal means nothing, for Heaven's sake we are animals too!
I've so much going on inside me when they say that, and I feel I'm going to explode if I don't get it all out!

[rianaelf]

aw, yeah i know what u mean

[Imapeach]

Last night at dinner:

Him: Do you eat fish?
Me: No, I don't.
Him: You should. Garfish tastes great.
Me: I'll take your word for it.

Ah, yes. I'm going to quit all my beliefs on veganism because you told me that Garfish tastes great. So do chickpeas, dumbass. :cool:

[herbwormwood]

Willl you be seeing him again?:rolleyes:

[Orange-powered]

this comment came from one of my meat-eater housemates, it was a while ago now. I had a couple of posters on my bedroom door which is downstairs, about the egg and dairy industries.
Anyway he had a problem with the egg farming leaflet even though it was factual. He said he thought it was 'inconsiderate' . I was fuming about it for a while, even though he later apologised. Its obviously how he feels. I thought, its my door I can put up whatever i bloody like! also he often leaves meat lying around uncovered..thats what I call inconsiderate!

[Dave]

The comment which sticks in my mind was overheard at the Midlands Vegan Festival in Nottingham last year. A mother was walking past with her daugher who was aged around 11 or 12 and she asked her mother what a vegan was. The mother responded "a vegetarian who eats nothing".

I thought it was classic!

[Sheila]

That is just too funny!:D

Sheila

[sandra]

That is classic Dave, it's similar to a comment a relative made to me recently while out for a family meal he said, 'What's Sandra going to eat, a bowl of dust?' :(

[Yoggy]

LOL, he's wrong there, Sandra, since dust is 90% dead skin cells it's not even vegan! :eek: :)

[sandra]

:D Thanks Yoggy,
I must point that out to him the next time he says it [if there is a next time! I'm slowly but surely being put off eating out:( ]

[Pansypuss]

When I was veggie I was invited to supper and my friend who had cooked (veggie lasagne what else?) said ' you vegetarians must spend a lot of time chopping up vegetables, I've been at it all day' - it was a very large lasagne, they must have been eating it for the next week. Anyway, she invited me again but freaked when I said I now tried to follow a vegan diet. She said 'I'm making a (guess what?) spinach and cottage cheese lasagne'. I explained that it really wasn't someting I would eat and why. Then she said 'Well what do you eat - how about fish?':eek: Anyway, I'm going to make and take a pasta sauce - mixed mushrooms with garlic, pinenuts, perhaps some sun dried tomatoes and a dash of oatly cream (which I love - better than soya I think). She will make some pasta for me (just hope she doesn't use egg pasta but I didn't think to mention that:() I'll do lots so that they can have some and see how good vegan food is. I'll also take a couple of my cook books I think.

[sandra]

I love that Oatly cream too Pansypuss! :)

[Jamie]

does the oatly cream work well in savoury dishes then? I've been wanting to make a potato gratin but not sure what to use. I was going to try soy milk and cheezley, but wondered about using soya cream. I was worried it might go bitter or something though, or just be too weird.