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ConsciousCuisine
Sep 30th, 2004, 03:37 PM
On a non vegan forum where there is a thread " why aren't others vegan", one reply was "you have a right to your opinions but that doesn't mean to say you have the right to cause world wide chaos because of them." ??????

As you can imagine, it hasn't gone down very well.


Yeah, Gertvegan, 'cause all of the mass slaughtering and suffering created by Omnis causes rampant peace and harmony, unlike veganism which leads to mass destruction and disharmony, right? :rolleyes:

Hasha
Sep 30th, 2004, 03:51 PM
Later the same person said to me - "Do you think you will ever get better from the vegan thing you have" What the F***K!!!!!! sorry but some people are from Mars or out of touch.....

From the vegan thing you have? My gosh, that's absolutely hilarious!!

mysh
Sep 30th, 2004, 03:59 PM
I restarted on WeightWatchers within weeks of coming over all vegan. Quite a few of my coworkers viewed the two as one and the same, and so keep on asking me if I'm still on that no meat diet... *sigh*

And I sure hope I never get "better" from this "vegan thing" I have... :D

TheFirstBus
Sep 30th, 2004, 06:35 PM
one of my good friends little sisters asked me "so how long are you not going to eat meat" I didn't have to answer becuase another one of the said "for the rest of his life". It didn't bother me they are just young and good kids.

casey_veggoddes
Sep 30th, 2004, 08:48 PM
This could probably be another thread but, this is one from a former lacto-ovo vegetarian- "I was hungry all the time and adding animal products to my diet made me less cranky but, fatter haha." This in itself isn't that stupid but, she was ALREADY eating milk, eggs, cheese, etc. since she wasn't vegan so I don't see how "adding animal products" to her diet (I guess dairy and eggs aren't animal products?) would have made such a huge difference. She was also a vegetarian for twenty years, so did this *all of a sudden* become a problem for her? :rolleyes: Sounds like a lot of BS to me.

(Btw, this is my env. science proffesor who is otherwise a total genius. Today the lecture was on factory farms and she said that chickens are fed ARSENIC on top of the antibiotics and growth hormones. Geez :eek: now isn't that going a little too far? I guess now I know what to say the next time someone says chicken is good for you...

casey_veggoddes
Sep 30th, 2004, 09:02 PM
Oh, here's some I've gotten from my mother:

"If everyone stopped eating meat all the cows would become extinct".

"You just want everyone to keep these animals out in their yards as pets."

on cow's milk and why I find it unnatural and gross: "You need to be more open minded."

"The Chinese (who don't consume as much dairy) are short! Milk is what's made our generation of men big and strong!"

the_lone_prospector
Sep 30th, 2004, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by casey_veggoddes
"If everyone stopped eating meat all the cows would become extinct"

Ha! That's one of the arguments my dad used this evening when we were talking about veganism. He believes all the usual food chain/law of the jungle crap too. And he refuses to accept that things like cake can taste great without any dairy products. I've never actually had a vegan cake but I'm sure they're just as tasty. :p

TheFirstBus
Sep 30th, 2004, 09:52 PM
How exactly do they defend that cows extinct theory??

Hasha
Sep 30th, 2004, 10:45 PM
Actually, I think they're probably right. Cows and other highly domesticated animals are franken-species whose genetic make-up was determined by the needs of humans, not by their own struggle to survive in the wild. Some domesticated species can't even reproduce without artificial insemination - how would they ever survive if humans decided not to raise them any more? What I fail to see is just why you would consider the extinction of such species to be undesirable. Given the amount of suffering they experience, given the harm that animal products do to human health, given the damage that animal raising does to the environment - I think that it would be best for everyone, cows included, if the cows and other highly domesticated animals went extinct.

John
Oct 1st, 2004, 04:06 AM
Actually, cows do just fine when they go feral. They know how to find food and they are big enough to fight off most predators. In fact, the cows that produce the "tasty" beef for fast food burgers lead a pretty much wild life in the wilderness untill they are herded up and slaughtered. These cattle are largely responsible for much of the degredation of the world's wild land.

I have also seen in the third world, how chickens are left to forage by themselves all day. They find their food for themselves without being fed and are hardly looked after at all.

In many places feral pig, goat, and sheep populations are enormous and threaten the native wildlife.

So yes, farm animals can do just fine without people.

Hasha
Oct 2nd, 2004, 02:54 AM
H'm. I guess I was jumping into conclusions. I still think that the animals from the industrial farms in the industrialized countries would be incapable of surviving in the wild. But I was ignoring the fact that not all cows/chickens/etc. are raised in such places. Anyway, I think that does leave us with a gloomier picture. As John said, these animals (well, the people who raise them, actually) are responsible for much of degradation of this planet's wild land. I'm guessing it would only get worse if they went feral. Not that there is anything wrong with cows as such, but their sheer number would cause a huge imbalance in the eco-system (as if it hasn't done so already!), much in the way that the size of the human population has done enormous damage. But anyway, I don't think there is much of a chance that a significant number of domesticated animals will go feral. Well, unless something happens (such as a catastrophic epidemic) and we go extinct, while the animals that we raised remain largely untouched. But otherwise, no, I don't think humans will ever let their animals just walk away. If the world (or rather, its human population) ever becomes significantly less carnivorous (which is what I think will happen), I'm guessing that humans will either just prevent their animals from reproducing and thus greatly reduce their number, or be brutally human and just slaughter them all.

TheFirstBus
Oct 2nd, 2004, 03:31 AM
I think there numbers would decrease if they were left feral but ont to the point of extinction. Decrease in a good sense...

John
Oct 2nd, 2004, 06:58 AM
If society came to the point where we decided that exploiting animals was wrong, I'm sure we could deal with the problem. I mean, we put a man on the moon damn it. To bad it is only a fantasy. . .

Hasha
Oct 2nd, 2004, 05:09 PM
I do think that the human kind will become less carnivorous but not because it will have decided that exploiting animals is wrong. I'm guessing that the reason will be either an environmental disaster (such as a serious shortage of drinking water) or an epidemic caused by meat-eating (such as the BSE, or rather, the human version of it). So a high scale slaughter seems quite possible to me. After this happens, humans will quite possibly decide that exploiting animals is wrong. They will decide that because they won't have anything to lose by deciding it and they will feel oh so good about themselves for having such noble feelings and having the courage to condemn their ancestors, blah, blah, blah.

mysh
Oct 4th, 2004, 01:57 AM
To change the subject back to ranting about non-vegans, I had several experiences this weekend...
I went to several restaurants (weekend away from home). At one of them, all of their dry pastas were made with lactate! (Real pasta is either egg-pasta, or else vegan).
Next one, they had a "Vegetarian Paella", made with "Spanish Rice", cooked in chicken broth :eek: . I believe that doesn't even qualify as ovo-lacto veggie... :rolleyes:
Third one, firstly, they had a brown rice and black beans side (sounded yummy, I thought), which, on the package, is labelled as "Vegetarian Rice", and then conatins chicken broth (again). Secondly, they claimed that you could make their veggie burger vegan by removing the cheese. I somehow doubt that the mayonnaise they use is also vegan... :rolleyes:

Another one was looking at trail mixes to tide me over on my long car trip (one whole hour! with two kids in the back! *whew*). Guess how surprised I was (actually, horrified, disgusted, and very very angry :mad: ), to discover the Planters makes their trail mix with... glycerin :eek: !!!!! Most companies mention explicitly when the glycerin they use is from plant sources, so the lack of mention of that makes me assume the worst. I mean, how utterly messed up is it to kill an animal for trail mix ?!?!?!?!

John
Oct 4th, 2004, 02:05 AM
I'm not sure that lactate is non-vegan. I think that it is an ingredient in enriched flour. Anyone?

mysh
Oct 4th, 2004, 04:56 AM
I will ask next time to see the ingredients myself to make sure. There are some vegetable sources of lactate, but generally it'll be milk. And the ingredient the guy mentioned may even have been lactic acid. I'll check next time.

Liberate
Oct 5th, 2004, 01:16 PM
Does anyone else ever laugh when someone says they "could never" become vegan because they were raised eating meat? I dont think they understand that a LARGE majority of vegans were also bought up eating meat, god damn.

It really makes me laugh.

cedarblue
Oct 5th, 2004, 01:37 PM
:D

uww27225
Oct 12th, 2004, 02:38 PM
I had to share this because I thought it was funny. My coworker brought in treats for her b-day. She asked me why I didn't have any and I said b/c none of it's vegan. One lady actually said, 'why can't you have cheese?' and another replied, 'oh, because it was dairy in it'. :)

mysh
Oct 13th, 2004, 10:43 PM
One of my co-workers told me today:
Another of our co-workers claimed she is vegetarian. But she eats fish, which is ok, she says, because at least the fish got to live their lives in freedom (prior to being asphyxiated, and put on her plate).
:confused:

JasperKat
Oct 14th, 2004, 02:06 AM
I was given this arguement by a friend of a friend: "Other animals eat meat. If it's okay for a tiger to eat an antelope, why shouldn't I?" I told him that yes, other animals eat meat, and that other animals also poop outside, sleep in caves, and lick themselves clean instead of hopping in the tub. I told him that should he adopt any of these other habits, he has my blessing to eat an antelope.

-JK

veganblue
Oct 14th, 2004, 03:47 AM
I'm not sure that lactate is non-vegan. I think that it is an ingredient in enriched flour. Anyone?

Lactate is a carbohydrate.
Ca(C3H5O3)2Calcium lactate is sourced from starch by biological fermentation and is a salt of lactic acid. Lactic acid is a product of anaerobic respiration and gives the muscle pain associated with not warming-down sufficiently after exercise.

Lactose is a disaccharide sugar made up of glucose and galactose, is found in milk and is responsible for many intolerances. I have heard of production from sugar beet by fermentation but it is yet another one you can't be sure about without asking the manufacturer where it was sourced.

In time it will probably be cheaper to get it from fermentation of vegetable sugars than extraction from the whey in cheese making.

Info on lactose source - courtesy of the dairy industry.
http://ift.confex.com/ift/2002/techprogram/paper_9923.htm

John
Oct 14th, 2004, 08:27 PM
I had to re-read you post a few times there Veganblue.:) I think the ingredient in pasta is ferous lactate. Maybe a vitamin put in in the enriching process? Is lactate or ferous lactate vegan?

Trendygirl
Oct 15th, 2004, 02:09 AM
I was just surfing net when I came across the net and found this site http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread27432/pg1 They are talking about slaughterhouses and if they could kill animals themselves. It has made me so sick!!!!! Some people are so stupid it makes me want to vomit, I wanted to sign up and tell them a few truths but I don’t think I have the strength. Some were having that old argument that we are no better than meat eaters because we kill plants… please give me strength! Take a look if you have the strength…I feel weak at the knees that people like them exist!