PDA

View Full Version : Non-valid arguments for eating meat



Pages : [1] 2

Korn
Apr 22nd, 2004, 11:24 PM
http://www.animalfreedom.org/english/opinion/argument/eatingmeat.html

Michael
Apr 25th, 2004, 09:01 PM
This will certainly come in handy next time someone tries to tell me off for being a vegan! Thanks :D

Roxy
Apr 25th, 2004, 10:06 PM
Thanks for that link Korn - very handy!

Roxy

Kiva Dancer
Jan 22nd, 2005, 09:50 PM
Thanks for the link, Korn.

veganfreak
Feb 9th, 2005, 05:48 PM
Don't forget to add "tradition" to that list. People always argue that eating meat is "traditional" and therefore OK, which is patently absurd. Tradition has been used to justify all kinds of oppression (racism, sexism, classism) so it is no surprise to see it mustered in defense of speciesism (crap, hope I spelled that right ;) ).

John
Feb 10th, 2005, 12:38 AM
I find it funny when people say that eating meat is natural.

If eating meat is so natural, then why don't you eat it raw?

starsky79
Mar 24th, 2005, 08:22 PM
I find it funny when people say that eating meat is natural.

If eating meat is so natural, then why don't you eat it raw?

I totally agree. If a dog (or other carnavore) finds a dead animal in the road they see it as food. If humans are truly carnivourous, then why are we repulsed by dead animals?

TheFirstBus
Mar 26th, 2005, 05:30 PM
Maybe some meat can be eaten raw. But the meats most popular in north america seem to be ones that would make you sick if you ate them raw (chicken, beef). If we were so meant to eat meat where are our claws and sharp teeth for downing and animal then tearing its flesh off. Good to note that humans never really started on this meat eating fad until they had a tool to kill the animal. Thats not natural.

John
Mar 26th, 2005, 09:09 PM
You could eat beef and chicken raw but that would seem pretty unnatural to most people.

TheFirstBus
Mar 27th, 2005, 04:00 AM
would you not get sick if you ate beef or chicken raw??

EcoTribalVegan
Mar 27th, 2005, 04:03 AM
would you not get sick if you ate beef or chicken raw??

I've heard there's an incubation period of ~45 minutes-1 hour until dead animals become infected with harmful bacteria (excluding any deseases the animal could potentially be carrying). But like everyone else has said...eating raw meat has almost never existed in "civilized" societies.

Astrocat
Mar 28th, 2005, 01:03 PM
Here in hickland some of the true hicks really are odd enough to eat raw meat sometimes - some of them do it when they're feeling especially mindless while edrunk and in a mood to do something dumb, for example...

They often get pretty sick from it, so i hear from the hicks i have spoken to about this situation, but then again.... people weren't naturally set up healthwise to eat fresh flesh raw, never mind commercial flesh.... so, yeah...

Oh, and the incubation period before something in contact with an area infected with dangerous micro-organisms (ie flesh in an abbatoir environment which is unhygienic - the vast majority if not all abbatoirs could be classifiable as unhygenic by definition) is reckoned to be around 5 seconds.

:P i think the 45 minute thing is just wishful thinking on the part of omnivores, to be honest with you.

Hens are by far the most diseased creatures raised within the flesh industry - i think a person would need to have issues with ignorance or stupidity if they would willingly eat commercially raised hens or chickens' flesh raw !

EcoTribalVegan
Mar 28th, 2005, 08:37 PM
Oh, and the incubation period before something in contact with an area infected with dangerous micro-organisms (ie flesh in an abbatoir environment which is unhygienic - the vast majority if not all abbatoirs could be classifiable as unhygenic by definition) is reckoned to be around 5 seconds.

:P i think the 45 minute thing is just wishful thinking on the part of omnivores, to be honest with you.

Hens are by far the most diseased creatures raised within the flesh industry - i think a person would need to have issues with ignorance or stupidity if they would willingly eat commercially raised hens or chickens' flesh raw !

Well then, if that's the case (only 5 second gestation period for raw meat bacteria) that is only more of a reason not to eat meat :) .

But I wholeheartedly concur, eating raw meat is by far one of the stupidest things one can do for their own health.

phillip888
Mar 28th, 2005, 11:59 PM
People do it regularly though. It seems people don't understand that raw dead flesh is not only home to bacteria that may be pathogenic, but it can also contain worms that deplete vitamins from their hosts and spread pathogenic bacteria that they harbor. Not a fun thing to experience I'm sure.

On the other hand the best foods for removing intestinal parasites like worms are plants...

Lilith
Jul 1st, 2005, 04:35 PM
"in nature hardly any species of animal imprisons other animals for their entire lives so they can eat them when they want to"

This is a good comeback but doesn't this in a way justify hunting to the meat-eater? It's almost like saying: 'it's wrong to imprison an animal all it's life to be eaten but it's OK if it roams free and you kill it and eat it yourself.'

Am I making sense?
How would you tell a meat eater that it's wrong/unatural to even hunt and kill an animal yourself too?

Mozbee
Jul 1st, 2005, 04:51 PM
"in nature hardly any species of animal imprisons other animals for their entire lives so they can eat them when they want to"

This is a good comeback but doesn't this in a way justify hunting to the meat-eater? It's almost like saying: 'it's wrong to imprison an animal all it's life to be eaten but it's OK if it roams free and you kill it and eat it yourself.'

Am I making sense?
How would you tell a meat eater that it's wrong/unatural to even hunt and kill an animal yourself too?

Well maybe you could tell Mr Omni "If he thinks it natural for humans to hunt animals, then maybe he should do it in a more natural way, unclothed and without the aid of weapons" :D

Korn
Jul 1st, 2005, 05:33 PM
How would you tell a meat eater that it's wrong/unatural to even hunt and kill an animal yourself too?
You don't need to explain why you don't do what you don't do (kill and eat animals)! :)

But can they explain why they do it and even why they find that it's natural to do it... what or who it is that gives them the right to kill other beings? If it's unhealthy to eat meat, painful for the animal (and maybe for it's family), and unnecessary kill an animal, I guess they would have a heard time explaining you why they still choose to do so.

We also have this thread: Did humans always eat meat? (http://www.veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1194)

Pilaf
Jul 1st, 2005, 11:10 PM
It's amazing how resistant people are to change. Even the people I know who eat meat and know it's bad for their heart just sigh and say things like "yeah but protein is essential.. you don't get any protein!" After I offer to arm wrestle them and they refuse for some reason, I kindly explain to them that they're wrong and that a vegan diet contains ample protein. Then they say something stupid like "well I gotta support myself.. scrape up a living. I can't be damned to be concerned about cows" and I tell them "it's a lot cheaper to buy a vegan diet than an omnivorous one. And besides, it's not just about the cows. A vegan diet is humanitarian. If the entire world were vegan, there would be almost no hunger." Then I give them the actual facts from Diet for a New America which I printed off these forums. Even then, after all that..after staring all the facts in the face.. they still say I'm crazy and I've been brainwashed by "liberals". Which proves the greed of the average human.

Korn
Jul 1st, 2005, 11:16 PM
It's amazing how resistant people are to change.
I think part of it is that old habits are hard to break, but even more important: they don't know how good good vegan food is. They falsely believe they have to eat food they won't enjoy as much as what they are currently eating.

Lilith
Jul 3rd, 2005, 03:46 PM
You don't need to explain why you don't do what you don't do (kill and eat animals)! :)

But Omni's make us feel like we have to!
It's ridiculous/

"But can they explain why they do it and even why they find that it's natural to do it... what or who it is that gives them the right to kill other beings?"

They try to....but in a nutshell: no.

"If it's unhealthy to eat meat, painful for the animal (and maybe for it's family), and unnecessary kill an animal, I guess they would have a heard time explaining you why they still choose to do so."

I guess the saying "Ignorence is the only evil " is true then.
Even if you try inform them of these things they refuse to believe.
I suppose it's too traumatic for many to realise that we live in such a murderous world.

"We also have this thread: [URL=http://www.veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1194]Did humans always eat meat?

Thanks :)

"Well maybe you could tell Mr Omni "If he thinks it natural for humans to hunt animals, then maybe he should do it in a more natural way, unclothed and without the aid of weapons""

Lol! yeh I'll just get my head bitten off (pardon the meat-eating pun) for saying that cos they won't be able to think of a good argument for it. It's so annoying!! But at least it shows that I (we) stand 'correct' and them corrected.

Mozbee
Jul 3rd, 2005, 05:00 PM
Go on Lil, test em out!

Love Mozbee :D

Tombstone
Jul 9th, 2005, 03:06 PM
Don't forget to add "tradition" to that list. People always argue that eating meat is "traditional" and therefore OK, which is patently absurd. Tradition has been used to justify all kinds of oppression (racism, sexism, classism) so it is no surprise to see it mustered in defense of speciesism (crap, hope I spelled that right ;) ).

Yea, I hear people often saying 'We've been eating meat for thousands of years'. I think to myself 'doesn't that make it WORSE?' If I punched someone in the face, they'd complain. By their logic, if I continued to punch them in the face all my life, then that'd make it more acceptable?

EDIT: A couple more things I thought of that I hear all the time:

"Animals are born on a farm so they don't know any different" (which is to say that they don't know their own 'natural' habitat, therefore anything they endure on a farm would be the only thing the animal knows; it would assume it 'belongs' there)

Of course is completely ridiculous, given that if someone gave birth to a baby, then put it in a barrel and kept there, it does not make it morally acceptable just because that's where the child was from birth.

"We are capable of eating meat therefore it is morally acceptable" (specific examples of how we are capable or meant to eat meat are things like our teeth, positioning of our eyes, intelligence etc)

Again, utter nonsense, given that we are all capable of many things that we choose not to do. Everyone is capable of robbery, murder, rape etc, yet we know that these things are unreasonable. The notion that we should do whatever we are capable of is nonsense.

Pilaf
Sep 7th, 2005, 06:43 AM
"We are capable of eating meat therefore it is morally acceptable" (specific examples of how we are capable or meant to eat meat are things like our teeth, positioning of our eyes, intelligence etc)

Again, utter nonsense, given that we are all capable of many things that we choose not to do. Everyone is capable of robbery, murder, rape etc, yet we know that these things are unreasonable. The notion that we should do whatever we are capable of is nonsense.

Exactly. If every human did whatever he/she wanted just because he/she were "Capable", there'd be more crime and suffering in the world.

To be Human is to be able to make decisions which we deem good, and which progress society in more positive directions.

Roxy
Sep 7th, 2005, 06:47 AM
Exactly. If every human did whatever he/she wanted just because he/she were "Capable", there'd be more crime and suffering in the world.


Although, most humans are capable of showing compassion and love, but they choose not to. Perhaps if they did just because they were capable, the world would be a lot better place :)

Morna
Jan 10th, 2006, 07:37 AM
I find it funny when people say that eating meat is natural. If eating meat is so natural, then why don't you eat it raw?

I LOVE that one. Oh, and have you noticed that without help from some kind of tools, we can't kill and eat much of anything? We just don't have the equipment. No claws at all, and our canine teeth are short and blunt, not sharp daggers like those of true carnivores (such as cats).