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Amaya
Jul 15th, 2004, 03:07 AM
Sorry if this was already brought up.

Do any of you have problems with out much vegan food costs. I hear some of you talking about organic foods and soy and it all cost more then 'normal' food. It really bothers me, i'm on a budget i don't make that much. Why does it cost so much, do you ever think the price will go down? Junk food and meat cost so much less it is really fustrating.

DontJustDoSomething, SitThere
Jul 15th, 2004, 05:24 AM
Hi Amaya, if you compare organic food (w/ organic meat) with organic vegan food - vegan food is cheaper. Or you could compare non-organic SAD food with non-organic veg food - veg is still cheaper. Plus, you save some doctors bills later in life :)

Mystic
Jul 15th, 2004, 06:43 AM
I find that vegan wholefoods (I buy conventional, not organic) like lentils, chickpeas and brown rice are waaaaaaay cheaper then meat or junkfood. Vegan junkfood and convenience food IS way more expensive though

foxytina_69
Jul 15th, 2004, 07:39 AM
i find its alot cheaper, and lasts alot longer. a steak lasts one night but a bag of apples lasts quite a few days. i only have to go shopping two times a month now, and the bills are alot cheaper. i just try to not buy convenience foods.

eve
Jul 15th, 2004, 07:55 AM
Amaya, considering that vegans don't spend on meat, bacon, eggs, cheese, fish, butter, etc, means there may be a little extra to spend on tofu, nutritional yeast, extra fruit and so on. We don't all support organic either. And by the way, vegan fare is quite 'normal'. :)

harpy
Jul 15th, 2004, 12:12 PM
Do you have organic "box schemes" where you are, Amaya? This is where you order fruit and vegetables (and sometimes other groceries too) for delivery to your house or a local collection point once a week (or once every two weeks in our case).

Here in the UK at least it usually works out cheaper than buying organic stuff from supermarkets, and the food is usually supposed to be more locally produced (or at least not air-freighted).

ConsciousCuisine
Jul 15th, 2004, 01:35 PM
Amaya, My family only purchases organic foods for preparation at home. It is expensive. At a local market, you can get 10 conventional cucumbers on sale for $1, while the organic ones are $1.89 a pound! Brown rice is 4 lbs for $1 and organic brown rice is $1.29 a pound! So yes, it is more expensive to be organic, but as it becomes more "mainstream" I am seeing companies like Trader Joe's and Whole Foods making it only a feww pennies more expensive per item, and I know that progress is being made! Organic foods have been shown to be higher in nutrients, lower in toxic chemicals and kinder to the earth and farmers. I am glad more and more people are seeing the importance of moving towards an organic lifestyle!

Also, because no unnatural preservatives are used in most of the foods and so they don't "last" as long as conventional ones do, my family goes shopping every few days to ensure that we are getting the freshest foods possible. We buy what we need and consume it within a day or two, then go shopping again!

If you are having issues with budgeting and organic foods, be sure to read up on which foods are the most important ones to buy organic so you can make informed choices and do your best to incorporate as many organic foods as possible.

Some of the reasons to buy some foods in particular as organic is that they are known to be heavily sprayed with pesticides and/or are genetically modified, as is the case with citrus and berries (heavily sprayed) and soy products (genetically modified). If you'd like a more complete list of "The top foods to buy organic", let me know and I will send it out.

Being a new vegan is often tough enough socially, but the cost issue can be a pain, at least it looks that way initially. If you stick to whole foods, you can do it affordably!

Blessings!

phillip888
Jul 15th, 2004, 07:39 PM
I find that people who thing vegan food is expensive are often talking about processed substitutes and deserts. I eat almost all raw foods, so I buy organic produce. My food bill hase gone from roughly 6% of my income to about 10%. In my eyes food is important. It is after all one of the three most important needs for survival, and it has a huge impact on health. I consider 10% of my income a miniscule amount to pay for something so important. I also don't even keep my purchases as cheap as possible. My health is important to me, so I pay a little extra to eat right.

I also have a hard time thinking of conventional foods as vegan. After all they are sprayed with pesticides. Pesticide means killing of animals considered pests. I realize animals die often either way, but I didn't become vegan to be apathetic about the death of others because it benefits me in some way. I know some peple have a hard time getting organic foods, but I could never use that excuse where I live.

Also if you want cheap abundant vegan food, look into sprouting. If you live somewhere where you can garden, you can grow a lot of food for your self and have a fun hobby. A lot of people are so dependant on the system they never even consider this, but a ten by ten meter plot can grow enough to supply most of your food. Some people even grow window gardens, I'm working on one myself using discarded aquariums. I also grow mushrooms on top of my fridge, and will be expanding those too. Ther are a lot of ways to produce food at home, and many require very little work, they do the growing on their own the rest of the time.

cedarblue
Jul 15th, 2004, 07:46 PM
I also grow mushrooms on top of my fridge, and will be expanding those too. .




is that 'you are growing mushrooms' or did you just find them growing?? LOL
sorry phillip888 - i jest :p

Roxy
Jul 16th, 2004, 05:44 AM
I like to buy and eat organic wherever possible. I have found that all round, organic foods are more expensive than conventional ones. However, in some cases, the difference is minimal eg, 20 cents difference between organic and non-organic bananas. But then again, there is a $2 difference when it comes to organic tinned tomatoes vs conventional tinned tomatoes.

Like Phillip, I agree that it is important to fuel your body with the best food available. And I believe that organic varieties are the best available. I have read that organic fresh produce is better for you because it contains more nutrients and less chemicals. I also believe that organic farming methods are much more environmentally friendly than other farming methods.

I have also found that organic companies seem to be more environmentally friendly with regards to their packaging eg, using recycled materials and vegetable based inks.

If you can't afford to buy organic all of the time, I would suggest you do it wherever you can, or perhaps when organic items are on sale.

Roxy

eve
Jul 16th, 2004, 06:47 AM
I also have a hard time thinking of conventional foods as vegan. After all they are sprayed with pesticides. Pesticide means killing of animals considered pests. I realize animals die often either way, but I didn't become vegan to be apathetic about the death of others because it benefits me in some way.
It's true that conventional fruit & veggies are sprayed with pesticides. But on the other hand, organic products use heaps of blood and bone, manure, and horn (for biodynamic). That means they rely entirely on the abattoirs - where else would they get their blood and bone, and manure? Also, remember that the poor animals are often pumped with chemicals so they grow faster than normal, etc. Does this not have an effect on their manure, not to mention their blood and bone?

A poor choice for consumers. But the main thing is to work for the ending of abattoirs, then growers will have to practise 'green manure' to replace the current methods.

Mystic
Jul 16th, 2004, 07:34 AM
I think it just boils down to personal choice and lifestyle. I don't believe that conventional foods are harming me, because I wash everything and look out for additives with big scientific names and numbers etc...

I will say that some organic food tastes better (there is a pasta sauce that I buy that is delicious) but some of it tastes horrible...like dried apricots...ewwww...give me the bright orange sulphur anyday!!!! Things like rice, I cannot tell...

I could not afford as an independent student to eat organic, and I do not think it is necessary either. But that is my opinion. Like I said...organic is a personal choice.

ConsciousCuisine
Jul 16th, 2004, 10:11 AM
USDA Official Guidelines for "Certified Organic" foods:

Foods labeled "organic" or "100% organic" may not be grown using any of the following:

Chemical fertilizers, herbicides or synthetic pesticides
Ionizing radiation
Sewage sludge (used for fertilizer)
Genetically modified ingredients

Animal products used to grow cannot be given hormones nor antibiotics and must be fed organic feed or allowed access to pasture


(It is important to note that conventional growers use animal products in growing food as well- just not "certified organic" animal products)

Alexis
Aug 5th, 2004, 07:42 AM
I think cost comes down to time and what exactly you want to eat. As a college student I ate many more staples high in starch (such as rice, pasta, potatoes, homemade bread) and canned vegetables and fruits. But I also had much more time to cook then than I do now (tofu was very cheap). The food I ate then was much cheaper than convenience foods or meat were. Now that I am working on transitioning to a raw diet food has become more expensive. Produce that is organic is more expensive but I use it. As a college student I had no access to organic so I'm glad I do now. Buying food (mostly produce) has become more expensive than college days or most others who eat quote normal diets, but I also have the resources now. Buying food has also become more expensive in general because I have no time or very little to prepare food for myself. I'm at home eight hours a day if I'm lucky. Thus I am spending more because time is more important to me than money.
I have found that depending on where you are in life and what exactly you are willing to eat, veganism can be as cheap or expensive as you have time to make it.

JaredM
Aug 5th, 2004, 10:01 PM
i dont know what everyone means by organic. i am a new vegetarian and i am a kid and never worried about my health. what is organic? like the fruits and vegetables have no chemicals or fertilizers? I am thinking about making my own garden that would be so cool

mattd
Aug 5th, 2004, 10:23 PM
i dont know what everyone means by organic. i am a new vegetarian and i am a kid and never worried about my health. what is organic? like the fruits and vegetables have no chemicals or fertilizers? I am thinking about making my own garden that would be so cool

Yeah, no pesticides, herbicides, or chemical fertilizers. It's a little more specific than that, but I don't know the exact guidlines for produce to be certified organic. If I had a yard that actually got sunlight I'd definitly grow my own veggies. You should go for it.

and just to add my two cents in on the expence issue of veganism. i'm really not sure what my bills are like compared to omni's since i've been at least vegetarian since i started buying my own food. i do know my bills went up a little when i went vegan, but not to much. but i wouldn't feel bad about spending alot of money on healthy food. it'll more than pay for itself throughout life.

ConsciousCuisine
Aug 6th, 2004, 05:43 AM
[/QUOTE]It's a little more specific than that, but I don't know the exact guidlines for produce to be certified organic.[QUOTE]

Look up at my last post above...the guidelines are there! :)

Veganmama
Aug 6th, 2004, 12:49 PM
Organic produce is heaps more expensive, at th emarkets i can get red capsicum for $2kg organic is $10kg. Manderins $1kg at the market, organic $6. You get the idea. I buy all organic shampoos etc and food and it is really difficult as a single mother, i really have to budget hard and most of our money goes on food. If we at more cooked foods like rice it would go futher but as we eat mostly raw it's really hard to not go to the market and buy all that cheap food. I just say to my self would i spray flyspray on my girls dinner before serving it to them as that's what it feels like to give them that food

cedarblue
Aug 6th, 2004, 03:17 PM
i just say to myself would i spray flyspray on my girls dinner before serving it to them as that's what it feels like to give them that food





ugghhh - never thought about it like that, you are right.
we aregrowing lots on our allotment at the mo so i am just topping up buying stuff that we arent growing.

there is a product in uk, cant remember its name, wash off or veg off or something, which you add the veg washing water and its supposed to help take off some more nasties from food. may be worth considered buying if you cant afford organic fresh stuff, at least you would be reducing the sprays from the food a bit more which is good :D

ConsciousCuisine
Aug 6th, 2004, 03:44 PM
there is a product in uk, cant remember its name, wash off or veg off or something, which you add the veg washing water and its supposed to help take off some more nasties from food. may be worth considered buying if you cant afford organic fresh stuff, at least you would be reducing the sprays from the food a bit more which is good :D
There are several "Veggie Wash" sprays here in the US as well. They are mostly overpriced, attractively packaged vinegar or citrus water! Some of them contain surfacients which are dervied from food grade coconut or corn products and the like. Read the ingredients and then make your own if you'd like...here's a recipe!

1 Tablespoon of lemon juice, 10 drops grapefruitseed extract, 2 Tablespoons of baking soda, 1 cup of water, 3/4 cup vinegar. Mix well in a sprayer bottle. Shake before use. Spray vegetables and let sit for 5-10 minutes.
Rinse well. This works for virtually all vegetables except mushrooms as they will absorb the fluid! If you do not have the grapefruitseed extract, they spray will work, but not as well.

This recipe courtesy of moi, The Kitchen Witch!;)

Artichoke47
Aug 6th, 2004, 03:46 PM
I actually spend quite a bit for one person, about $150-200/week, but I'm worth it. :) I buy mostly organic, very few "processed" foods.

eve
Aug 7th, 2004, 05:56 AM
Good grief, are you all mad? What's wrong with washing anything with plain tap water? I was reading only this week by people on both sides of the argument (organic v conventional), and both agreed that 90% of fruit and vegetables have undetectable levels of nasties, based on lifetime ingestion. The organic farmers conceded that the levels were VERY low. BTW Artichoke 47, we once had a discussion here as to what constituted "processed" foods. Can't recall whether or not there was any conclusion, but as for me, I do eat a couple of slices of bread each day, a small amount of Marmite, I use Vitasoy milk, and even rice and other grains are all "processed". Most of what I eat, perhaps 80%, is fruit and vegetables which aren't processed really. Although I do buy frozen spinach, frozen blueberries, as the 'fresh' stuff takes days to arrive.

ConsciousCuisine
Aug 7th, 2004, 06:50 AM
Good grief, are you all mad?
:eek: HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

cedarblue
Aug 7th, 2004, 09:06 AM
:eek: HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!








heheh :D

thanks for recipe for veggie wash c.c, yes i do have the grapefuitseed extract so will make some up, thanks.

btw eve, quite possibly we ARE all mad :eek: but seeing as you also post here can we include you in that one too ;)

just my opinion is that the water in uk taps is cr@p and not only does it not wash anything off nonorganic stuff but tastes really 'stong' i.e. chemically in my area. we have areas of different types of water here in UK , 'hard' areas and 'soft' areas' and the taste and content of the water can vary depending on where you live and who your water provider is...so...for me i like to wash my fruit and veg where and when i can, and if im in a situ where i cant, then i dont, but i DO like to ideally. for those who dont want to...suits me duckie-doos, do as you will :)

Artichoke47
Aug 7th, 2004, 01:44 PM
I like using veggie wash. It gives me peace of mind and also, in my opinion, makes the fruit and vegetables sort of taste better...er...cleaner. :D