Do you drink? Alcohol that is...

[Pilaf]

Do you deny that you're helping support the alcohol industry, and that others who purchase from them die? It's just a fact.

[Kumem]

Obviously buying alcohol supports the industry, but I am not responsible for the choices that other people make.
People make their own decisions about what they choose to do. If alcohol were illegal it would underground and create more problems.
Where do you shop? I don't say that to start an argument, but it's a valid comparison. If you shop in a place that sells meat products, are you not adding money to that business and therefore perpetuating the belief that it is okay to eat animal products.
I may be wrong, you may only go to places that are purely vegan, but most people don't have that luxury. I am going off track here (blame the wine!). My point, as I mentioned earlier, is that I like drinking and I am not responsible for the decisions that other people choose to make.

[foxytina_69]

i agree. i love margaritas! but that doesnt mean im responsible for other peoples choices either. if you choose to not drink than thats great, but i like to have a few every now and then. :)

[Pilaf]

Well...I won't say any more..but to me it doesn't seem any different from those people who refuse to give up meat for their own selfish reasons. I simply cannot see the difference in my mind, at all.

[bittersweet]

The difference is, no-one (human or animal) has to die for ME to have an alcoholic drink. This may not be true for others (ie those who abuse it, drink drive etc), but it's true for me.

Whereas if I ate meat/dairy...well, hopefully you see my point...

I believe in PERSONAL responsibility...now, mind your personal business - and stop trying to guilt people who are living or attempting their best to live cruelty free lives into following your little ethics set by using false analogies!

[indianvegan]

If any one wanna read/see effects of Alcohol, must know conditions here in the developing country likeIndia and others as well too.

-many people do not work, they just live for it.
-many people do die due to damage liver and other organs.
-many people do rape while they are drunk.
-many people do murder while they are drunk.
-most drunkers die to road accident.
-many kids have lost their drunker father.
-many people beat their spouse for money they need for buying it.
-many kids are not given food as their father( usually women drunkers are rare here) spent money in drink only.
-Robbery,dacoits are done by drunkers.

Still, we consume alcohol ? :mad:

I have never touched it in my life.When I was 25 and while returning from Hongkong, there was one fellow with us and he requested to buy Alcohol from duty free shop at air port on his behalf.But, I strongly refused that gentleman for this action.

Still, I dunno, but it is absolutely a big abuse in the countries like India where wheather is warm almost round the year.

Regards!

Manish

[Kumem]

Well...I won't say any more..but to me it doesn't seem any different from those people who refuse to give up meat for their own selfish reasons. I simply cannot see the difference in my mind, at all.

I find your attitude completely naive and as Bittersweet said, that is a terrible analogy. I fact it's pretty insulting. If you cannot see the difference the go to a slaughter house and then go to a pub.

[Wanda]

Instead of going to the pub, it's maybe better to go to a hospital and visit victims of drunk driving.

[harpy]

I assume the people who think the alcohol industry should be boycotted also boycott all motorised transport, since that also kills?

Almost anything can kill if used sufficiently irresponsibly, but to my mind that's not a reason to bar everyone from using it. Educating people in its appropriate use seems a more logical response.

[bittersweet]

I think the point those of us who consume alcohol are making is that we are responsible for our own actions - not those of others...not the people who are stupid enough to drink and drive, not those depressed enough to drink their lives away...just our own.

They are humans in a human created society, and capable of making their own decisions, tragic though those may be in many cases. We make our own choices (hopefully) responsibly.

I think less drivers and less pressure to own/use cars would help the drink driving problem more than banning drinking - after all, look what happened when the United States tried prohibition!

[bittersweet]

Oh, and just as a side note, I think I see another UK/US attitude thing happening...

[Melina]

I personally cannot see why anyone who claims to be health-conscious would pour poison down their throats.

[harpy]

My GP has recommended I have the odd glass of wine and I'm happy to comply.

However, I'm not especially health conscious - I'm vegan on ethical grounds and only aspire to be as healthy as a comparable omnivore (for PR reasons!), so until someone finds an adverse interaction between veganism and alcohol consumption, I'm OK with it.

[Kumem]

I personally cannot see why anyone who claims to be health-conscious would pour poison down their throats.

Well I can't speak for others, but I have never made any claims to be health conscious. I choose to not eat animal products. If being vegan meant also not drinking, then I think it would put a lot of people off.

[bittersweet]

Indeed! Being able to point out the vast amount of not-quite-so-healthy food and drink suitable for vegans has helped me convince several omnivores to cut down their animal intakes and accept my stance.

We're not all in this for ourselves - and again, as stated above, current medical research actually suggests that a moderate amount of alcohol can be good for you, even if you are only in it for yourself.

Oh, and anything that tastes of anything is a poison to some degree...you going to stop eating and drinking ANYTHING but distilled water now?

That's just the way being forced to ingest our energy via chemicals (ie food) works people!

[Mija]

Another option would be going to orphanages to see all those poor children there. All destroyed childhoods because of alchohol! But, of course, drinking is so cool. Are the consequences so cool as well?

[foxytina_69]

i dont have consequences from drinking, once a month, therefor i continue to do it :)

[sugarmouse]

i dont eat animal products..but i continue to get drunk regularly..that is not against my morals.lol ;)

[Melina]

For an article regarding moderate alcohol consumption and health benefits, go here:

http://www.benbest.com/health/alcohol.html

The bottom line is that alcohol is an addictive drug which has a detrimental effect on the body. Most of the claimed benefits are associated with reducing cardiovascular disease. The incentives for wishful thinking are very high and study designs are often poor. There are other, more healthy ways to acheive the same "benefits". "Ethanol (and/or acetaldehyde) is so damaging to so many body organs, organelles and molecules -- most troublingly the brain -- that grasping at one possible benefit while ignoring all of the harms sounds suspiciously like the rationalizations of an addict. Or the rationalizations of an entire addicted society. Whatever the reputed health benefits of ethanol, the health costs (known and unknown) are vastly greater. By my values, the possibility of brain damage makes any mild cardiovascular benefit pale by comparison -- especially when there are so many other ways to improve cardiovascular health."

[harpy]

I don't think things are as black and white as they are being painted here. I'm not keen on drunkenness myself (although I don't see it as a vegan issue), but I'll have a glass of wine with a meal, which doesn't make me drunk. While I don't like the idea of killing insects unnecessarily, I sometimes put anti-flea products on my cats. And I don't agree with everything I see written on this forum, but I still think it's a good forum with nice people on it.

It's human nature - you aren't going to find two humans who agree about everything, or even one human who is completely consistent :D

[bittersweet]

I think this thread has wandered a long way from the original intention, which was to share information about which alcohol is vegan for those of us who choose to consume it. And now it's been hijacked by someone who isn't even Vegan by their own admission?....sigh...

To be "vegan" for HEALTH reasons - wow that's just insane! There are so many more important things to worry about in this world than the state of one human body, just because it's your own! I mean, the health benefits of being vegan are a nice bonus, but in my eyes that's just a kind of "natural justice" reward for choosing a better way to live, not the whole point!

to continue off topic though, I'm fighting a holding action with ants at the moment (putting down essential oils etc to discourage them and so forth) - and I'm the one who feel guilty if they come in and drown themselves in a glass left on the floor overnight or something...touch wood, I think they've gotten the idea they're not welcome though - haven't seen any for a couple of weeks...

[Korn]

I moved the last few posts about semi-veganism over here:
http://www.veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4563

[Poison Ivy]

To be "vegan" for HEALTH reasons - wow that's just insane! There are so many more important things to worry about in this world than the state of one human body, just because it's your own!

Many people start off following a vegan diet purely for health reasons, then find that they become concerned about animal testing, factory farming, environmentalism etc, etc, etc as a natural progression. Just because it's the opposite way around from how others who converted to veganism from an ethical standpoint arrived here doesn't make it insane.

Neither in my book is it anywhere near approaching insane to be concerned about ones own health/body 'just because it's my own'. My health does concern me because on the occassions that I am debilitated due to ill health I cannot function properly - which means I can't look after my children, or the animals who are under my care, as fully and completely as I do when I am 100% healthy and mobile. So apologies Bittersweet, but I find it entirely sane to be concerned about the health of this one body, my body, because it's the only one I've got and I'd like it to be as strong as possible, as healthy as possible for as long as is possible.

Back on topic (or off it, whichever the case may be) I don't drink Alcohol either, I used to but have gradually come to loathe not only the effect it has on my senses and my body but also how it tastes, basically I think it tastes like c**p, artificial, chemically, bitter, sour, just plain bleurghhhh!!!!!

[Kevster]

Isn't this a vegan and alcohol thread? I am not so concerned about whether it is healthy, in my view it is not. I gave up alcohol for a few years and now drink again. But not a great deal.

Anyhow, as long as it is vegan, preferably certified, and organic then i do have the odd drink. So anyone wanting to debate the health issues can probably go to the health section of this forum. As for me, i'm currently enjoying a glass of Sam Smiths orgainc ale. Pretty good stuff.

[Kevster]

Spelling mistake intended of course ;)