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Human Jerky
Apr 26th, 2004, 03:30 AM
I for one think Alcohol is pointless. Does it not disturb anyone that you're drinking something flamable? Yuck! Your body is better off without it.

Wanda
Apr 28th, 2004, 01:33 AM
Don't drink. Never have and never will.
Alcohol that is. :)

Earthwriter
Jul 26th, 2004, 05:02 AM
I've seen this debate and discussion so many times with other vegetarians and vegans and I've seen it with the issue of cosmetics and beauty supplies. For some reason many vegans are more concerned with the ethics and conscience of using a product that contains an animal by-product and may have been tested on an animal rather than how healthy the item is. I personally find that to be sad. I'm not going to get into the logistics and analyzing to death whether beer or wine or a brush has an animal by-product in it. I will this though. Granted, I'm speaking for myself and to each his/her own, but veganism was neither started nor established for the mere purpose of protecting and caring for animals. As I stated in why I'm vegan, it's for the betterment of all and health and the environment should never be ignored. Alcohol is unhealthy, toxic and needless. I've never taken even a sip of alcohol and don't intend to ever do so. I so no reason or need for it and I'm a very healthy vegan who doesn't have to worry about her arteries.;) As for the cosmetics, my simple criteria is simple and straightforward. Your best bet is to simply use those products that are 100% botanical and pure and are made by companies, ie. Aveda, Aubrey, and Jason Cosmetics that really care and put the environment and eco-systems first! If in doubt do without! It's not just a rule for kosher/kashruth!:) Ok, I'm done with my schpeel and I"m off my podium tyrade!lol Thanks for listening...*kisses*

Peace and Hugs,
Earthwriter girl:)

Hasha
Jul 26th, 2004, 05:37 AM
I see your point, Earthwriter. But one could argue that limited amounts of alcohol could actually be good for you (which isn't to say that's necessarily true - the meat industry would argue that limited amounts of red meat are good for you). For me at least, the more important issue is the social aspect of alcohol. Being a vegan puts you in a rather awkward position in the society (if you haven't noticed, you're very lucky), and sometimes, you just don't want to add to that. For example, my father is turning 50 this summer, and I know my family isn't going to be very happy when I refuse to have even a little bit of wine for the occasion, on top of not tasting the cake. So I was hoping to get some vegan wine; and failed miserably... But other than such occasions, I don't really care one way or the other. Coming up with new kinds of sandwiches is certainly more important to me than finding a substitute for the three to four glasses of wine that I normally have each year.

Wanda
Jul 26th, 2004, 05:52 AM
I've seen this debate and discussion so many times with other vegetarians and vegans and I've seen it with the issue of cosmetics and beauty supplies. For some reason many vegans are more concerned with the ethics and conscience of using a product that contains an animal by-product and may have been tested on an animal rather than how healthy the item is.
I very much agree with you!
I personally am not jumping for joy when a new list of vegan junk food comes out! I don't understand why everybody always gets so exited by crap that happens to be vegan.

This said, I also understand the power of being able to attract new people to the vegan diet by making the switch easier for them. Most people are just so overwhelmed by everything they have to scratch out of their diet, that the availability of some vegan junk food can just ease the pain a bit. I just hope they will one day snap out of it.



I've never taken even a sip of alcohol and don't intend to ever do so.
Same here.

St George
Jul 26th, 2004, 10:04 AM
I find it hard to listen to people who imply that it is wrong(dont jump down my throats on that point.You know what i mean) to drink alcohol,when they,by their own admission,have "never even had a sip" of the stuff in their lives.

Everyone is entitled to their view,but it doesnt carry much strength when that opinion is not from some sort of experience.If an alcoholic,or a drink driver tells me that alcohol is wrong,then i will listen to them. But not someone with no first hand knowledge of the pleasures and negative points of alcohol.

Also,the reason that i am 80% vegan now(will be 100% in the next month or so) is that i want to do all i can to eliminate cruelty to animals. The health issue doesnt even come into it for me. Alcohol is my only "vice" and i have no intention of dropping it.

Please,i dont want an argument on this subject,and i am sorry if this post seems as if i am "having a go" at anyone,because i am not! The last think i want to do is argue with a group of people who,for the most part,share the same views as me on the most important subject there is to me.

Cheers:)

harpy
Jul 26th, 2004, 10:44 AM
Also,the reason that i am 80% vegan now(will be 100% in the next month or so) is that i want to do all i can to eliminate cruelty to animals. The health issue doesnt even come into it for me. Alcohol is my only "vice" and i have no intention of dropping it

I agree with this except that I don't see it as a vice even in inverted commas :D Getting drunk and smashing the place up is a vice in my book, but a glass of wine with dinner is not. Nor would I put a decent, and vegan, wine in the junk category by any means.

Now that my doctor has told me it's good for my HDL levels to drink a little wine I'm certainly not giving it up :) But I wouldn't dream of urging anyone else to have it if they didn't want to of course.

Wanda
Jul 26th, 2004, 04:57 PM
I find it hard to listen to people who imply that it is wrong(dont jump down my throats on that point.You know what i mean) to drink alcohol,when they,by their own admission,have "never even had a sip" of the stuff in their lives.
I am personally not against other people drinking.
I just don't like alcohol and don't like to be around people that drink.

However, I don't think you have to have experienced something to be against it. I could give a long list of examples, but I think it's clear what I mean.

ConsciousCuisine
Jul 26th, 2004, 08:02 PM
Wine has been used medicinally throughout time. Jesus drank wine! (tongue in cheek but true nontheless...)

In small, therapeutic amounts it can have benefits. It is very warming and in TCM it is believed to support cardiovascular health, to tonify health and build blood, beneficial to circulation in general and aids in digestion, amongst other things. We're talking 2-4 ounces of pure, vegan, organic red wine. I know a few people who limit themselves to this amount but not many...

I know that as I have become more and more balanced in health, I have little interest in alcohol. I drink as I have described above- organic, vegan red wine in small amounts, usually right before my moon cycle to help build my blood. It is very nourishing used in this way.

I have seen alcohol in excess kill and damage many loved ones and others. As a vegan, I seek to be the healthiest I can in every way. Alcohol simply is not a large part of this plan, so I use it as a "tonic" for health reasons.

John
Jul 27th, 2004, 01:50 AM
Beer is a gift from the gods. Some pathetic people might not be able to drink without turning into monsters and they give alcohol a bad name. Personally I don't trust anyone who never drinks. It's as if he or she is hiding some inner, dark secret.

And I have observed that heavy drinkers live the longest. :p

St George
Jul 27th, 2004, 06:08 PM
Me thinks you may be on a wind up,john;)

But,seriously,drinking in moderation is fine. As you say,drunks give alcohol a bad name,but a nice,quiet drink is one of my great pleasures.One i dont apologise for.

Tofu Monster
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:49 PM
Jesus drank wine!


yeah but wouldn't you, if you could make it out of water?! the jammy git! :D

DontJustDoSomething, SitThere
Jul 27th, 2004, 08:27 PM
Personally I don't trust anyone who never drinks.
It's as if he or she is hiding some inner, dark secret.

This used to be a common myth in my old home town. The few people that almost never got drunk was considered uptight by the others, in a weird variation over the holier-than-thou theme.

Lots of drinkers get really "honest" when drunk, share all their family problems and tell you how great person you are - maybe this is why they consider others to be reserved. In my experience, (if we exclude the people who don't drink because they are afraid of it) sober non-drinkers behave a lot more like drinkers do when they are drunk than sober non-drinkers do.

John
Jul 28th, 2004, 01:46 AM
I really have nothing against non-drinkers. I respect their self-discipline. One of the five precepts of Buddhism (the least important one, in existence because drinking compromises the other four) is not to drink.

It's just that believe it or not, America is an extremely puritanical country. There are temperance groups still in existence (often under the cover of front-organizations) who have the goal of making alcohol illegal. Just look at the stupidity of an age-21 minimum.

It just bothers me when I imagine that I feel the wind of self-righteousness. :)

Wanda
Jul 28th, 2004, 02:51 AM
I really have nothing against non-drinkers. I respect their self-discipline.
My non-drinking has nothing to do with self-discipline.
You can't miss what you have never tasted.
I also have never tasted any coffee, sigarettes, drugs and other stuff.
I just dislike anything that can cause dependencies in my life.

indianvegan
Jul 28th, 2004, 05:18 AM
I totally agree with Vegan Peace,like me, I have never tasted any form of Alcohol. No beer, No wine.

Though I was used to with Soft drinks before I was Vegan , I am not sure if it did contain any alcohol either.

Beside, I have never tasted Meat,Chicken,Fish,Eggs,Sea foods.

And I don't have any kind of crave for these kind of stuffs.

Manish Jain

Frank Lucas
Aug 2nd, 2004, 02:48 AM
My non-drinking has nothing to do with self-discipline.
You can't miss what you have never tasted.
I also have never tasted any coffee, sigarettes, drugs and other stuff.
I just dislike anything that can cause dependencies in my life.
I totally agree
Aloha

uww27225
Sep 22nd, 2004, 07:34 PM
People are starving etc while people are geting drunk.

People are starving while others are playing basketball, watching a movie, etc. That argument doesn't work for me. I know I could do more, but I don't want to be made to feel guilty about enjoying some of my free time, however I choose as long as I'm not disturbing anyone else.

I don't view alcohol any differently as any other beverage, except that it should be used in moderation. If someone has never had alcohol or no longer drinks, that's great for them. Personally, I enjoy going out for cocktails with friends, having a glass of wine with my meal, and sipping a glass of warm brandy on a cold Wisconsin winter night. To each is own I guess. :)

wuggy
Sep 22nd, 2004, 07:55 PM
I dislike the 'people/animals are dying while we're getting drunk' argument - everyone who is actively trying to live in a more 'conscious' state deserves some relaxation now and then!
However, I decided within the last year or so to abstain from drinking as I make a bad 'drunk', don't know when to stop, and also it makes me very depressed the following day.

uww27225
Sep 22nd, 2004, 08:07 PM
Congratulations wuggy! I applaud you for being conscious enough about yourself to know what's best for you!

wuggy
Sep 22nd, 2004, 09:04 PM
Yeah, unfortunately it took me years of getting drunk and depressed to realise it wasn't working for me!

marika5
Jun 28th, 2005, 06:47 PM
Your best bet is to simply use those products that are 100% botanical and pure and are made by companies, ie. Aveda, Aubrey, and Jason Cosmetics that really care and put the environment and eco-systems first!

Totally disagree with this. They are all full of synthetics and not environmentally-friendly. Aubrey is the worst; this is a company that regularly violates FDA labelling standards by including undisclosed (completely synthetic) ingredients and by using creative, non-approved ingredient names to disguise the synthetic nature. Violation warnings are in the public domain at the FDA website (search on Aubrey). I would not support this company.

John
Jun 28th, 2005, 10:31 PM
This has nothing to do with alcohol--but maybe you could be more specific. I just looked on the FDA website and the only warning letter to Aubrey from November 1996 to June 2005 that I could find was concerning product claims, like "this wards off acne," which would put the products into the category of drugs.

Closer to the topic was a copy of a petition which stated that The Breast Cancer Fund's Campaign for Safe Cosmetics had already won agreement from Aubrey not to use certain dangerous chemicals.

Maybe I'm missing something. :confused:

Pilaf
Jul 1st, 2005, 11:04 PM
I avoid alcohol. I'm Straight Edge and will always be so. There are many, many reasons to avoid alcohol. If you have to choose one reason to give the stuff up, however, make it the humanitarian reason. When you buy alcohol you're supporting a system of hate and suffering every bit as bad as the meat industry. When anyone buys alcohol, even "responsible drinkers" who drink in their own homes or never drive drunk, those people are pouring money into the alcohol industry and helping support the booze manufacturors who sell the stuff. Your money helps keep the companies in business, and they sell the stuff to other people..sometimes minors. These people drink and drive, drink too much and overdose, drink and get into lethal fights..etc. So basically, for me, not drinking is as much for my own good health as for the human race as a whole. I won't support a system of death and hatred. That's what Straight Edge is about at its most essential roots. Positive social reform.

Kumem
Jul 1st, 2005, 11:21 PM
I don't judge you for your straight edge lifestyle, but I don't like the implication that people who drink are immoral for the reasons you mentioned. You say it is supporting a system of hate and suffering every bit as bad as the meat industry. People who choose to drink responsibly like me, are not responsible for irresponsible people who sell to minors, people who drink drive, fight etc. Yes the money keeps people in business, but we don't advocate those things that can happen. I do not think it is comparable with the meat industry in any shape or form.
I enjoy a drink, a beer, a glass of wine, a vodka; in fact I love to get pissed. I don't want to suffer judgement for the small percentage of people that are irresponsible. I respect your view to abstain, but please don't imply that choosing to drink means consciously supporting a business as abhorrent as the meat industry.

Liz