Lapses

[Jo]

Is it common to have lapses (deliberate) when beginning to be vegan? Have any of you good people done this? If so, can I expect these lapses to continue for a while, is it just me?
After being so good for well over a month last night I ate a cracker and cheese and a piece of brownie made for my children. Pathetic. I can't say I particulary enjoyed either which is perhaps hopeful.:o

[Pob]

I haven't had any deliberate lapses myself, though plenty of accidents at the start. Reading more about the milk and egg industries and also the associated health problems of milk may be the most effective way to prevent the lapses.

If you go far enough down that path you may end up in a place where you don't want to feed that stuff to your kids, too - be prepared for that.

This place should put you off milk products forever: http://www.notmilk.com/

[Tigerlily]

I haven't had any lapses but I did come very close.

I did make mistakes but it was never more than a bite of it.

[Jo]

This place should put you off milk products forever: http://www.notmilk.com/
That is a good site but geared to the American milk production. How do European countries compare? Not trying to defend the industry just trying to find out whether for example there is as much pus(yuk, yuk, yuk) in UK or Norway's milk?

[Maisiepaisie]

I did lapse about a month after becoming vegan. I ate a veggie sausage at Ikea because I was starving and there was nothing else. This is the second time I have gone vegan although this time its definately for life as I don't view animal products as fit for human consumption.


Reading more about the milk and egg industries and also the associated health problems of milk may be the most effective way to prevent the lapses.

If you go far enough down that path you may end up in a place where you don't want to feed that stuff to your kids, too - be prepared for that.

This is exactly how it is for me. I brought both my sons up veggie from birth but I'd wish I'd know about veganism back then. My youngest is now vegan but my eldest does sometimes eat cheese and chocolate and has cows milk when he's not at home. He eats vegan at home though as I won't allow animal products in the house and I think in time he could give them up. I'm hoping so.

[ConsciousCuisine]

This place should put you off milk products forever: http://www.notmilk.com/That is a good site but geared to the American milk production. How do European countries compare? Not trying to defend the industry just trying to find out whether for example there is as much pus(yuk, yuk, yuk) in UK or Norway's milk?

What difference does it make if there is pus or not? If you believe that veganism is the ethical choice, the gross-out factor should have little bearing on your choice to be vegan.

To answer your question, NO it's not common to actually BE vegan and deliberately STOP but it is common for people to attempt a pseudo-vegan lifestyle and then waffle back and forth. Vegans don't do that, as they have a strong ethical base that superceded all matters of convinience and personal desires to indulge thier tastes.

It's great that you have been looking into a vegan lifestyle and where it may have a place in your life. Keep looking. If your heart is open and your mind working efficiently, you'll soon be vegan and feeding your children an all-vegan diet as well. Godspeed!

[Cherry]

can I expect these lapses to continue for a while?
That's up to you ;)

The fact that you didn't enjoy your lapse makes me think you're going to be fine :)

I lapsed a couple of years ago and ate not just a bowl, but an ENTIRE BOX (!) of crunchy nut cornflakes. (Btw the whole earth maple frosted cornflakes are honey-less and pretty good for anyone who is tempted!)

[Maisiepaisie]

What difference does it make if there is pus or not? If you believe that veganism is the ethical choice, the gross-out factor should have little bearing on your choice to be vegan.Its good to have more ammo to argue the case of veganism. I would like to know about UK pus too.

[ConsciousCuisine]

Its good to have more ammo to argue the case of veganism. I would like to know about UK pus too.
Yes, I agree, (knowledge is power and all that!) but not for the reasons the OP is asking for, IMO. Also, Maise we were posting at the same time when I wrote the last reply and I don't want you to think my post was a retort to yours :o

Try these UK links ;)

http://www.milkmyths.org.uk/report/farmassure.php

http://www.peta.org.uk/factsheet/files/FactsheetDisplay.asp?ID=120

[Pob]

Yes there is pus in UK milk, too. The US system may be harsher than the European system, but the cows over here are still bred to produce far more milk than is healthy. This leads to mastitis, lameness, malnutrition.

The human health problems caused by drinking milk are common to both the US and Europe. Not to forget that European milk is "dumped" in Africa, causing huge economic problems there.

[ConsciousCuisine]

"Just as in humans, white blood cells, sometimes referred to as ‘pus’, are produced to combat infection. The SCC of healthy milk is below 100,000 cells per millilitre, but milk from British cows averages more than 170,000 cells per millilitre."

(From the PETA UK link)

[Jo]

My mother used to say ' she? do you mean the cat's mother? I have a name you know!

[ConsciousCuisine]

My mother used to say ' she? do you mean the cat's mother? I have a name you know!

Of all that's been posted, THAT is what you fixate on :confused: :rolleyes: You have been provided with loads of information in answer to your questions;I hope you have been helped.

Best of luck to you!

P.S. If it was ME you were addressing, I have a name as well...My name's Brande, what's yours?

[Jo]

Jo!:)

[Jo]

Thanks by the way Brande, they were both good links. I've just sent them on to a friend who uses LOTS of dairy products. Hope she reads them so she at least understands why I am giving up dairy. I'm not sure though that people really care when they read stuff like that, they are too set in their ways or not really bothered. As long as they like the taste, who cares what yukky stuff is in it or how bad it is for you.

[Orange-powered]

I'm not sure though that people really care when they read stuff like that, they are too set in their ways or not really bothered. As long as they like the taste, who cares what yukky stuff is in it or how bad it is for you.


it upsets and angers me to an extent that people feel like that even when they have the plain facts about the suffering they are contributing to, willingly or not...here's another site I was just looking at it's also PETA http://www.milksucks.com/spew.asp - I think the "make Fred spew" game is interesting! but at least it delivers a message...even if it is a graphic one.

When It comes to deliberate lapses I have to say that this isn't something I have any desire to do...I don't want to consume animal products ever again..unfortunately there have been times, where much to my annoyance, I might have assumed that I had read a label (which I always do) only to discover I had missed something in the ingredients and it had an animal product in it...I guess this happened to me the other day.It was a chicken substitute... unfortunately I was eating it and then caught sight of the ingredients and saw "egg white" mentioned. I immediately spat it out. I feel that non vegans (this includes vegetarians) don't always understand this maybe but to me that felt about as bad as if I had taken a bite of real chicken.

[FR]

Is it common to have lapses (deliberate) when beginning to be vegan? Have any of you good people done this? If so, can I expect these lapses to continue for a while, is it just me?
After being so good for well over a month last night I ate a cracker and cheese and a piece of brownie made for my children. Pathetic. I can't say I particulary enjoyed either which is perhaps hopeful.:o

I am glad to hear you didn’t enjoy it. I suppose developing a dislike of anything that contains animal products would be the first step in eliminating lapses. I’ve never lapsed once, or had a craving for anything non-vegan since becoming vegan (aside from mistakenly eating something with honey before first checking the ingredients.). With me, I not only do this for the animals, I’m severely grossed out by the thought of animal products in food. Maybe those who have lapses should just think about how nasty those ingredients really are.

[Morna]

My personal belief is that lapses are a normal part of any major lifestyle change. Trying, failing, and trying again is called "learning." As long as you learn from your mistakes, you won't make the same ones again, and you'll end up being a stronger vegan. "Persistance is more important than perfection."

[insubordination]

It's not just you. I think a lot of people don't have lapses (often people who made a decision to be vegan in one fell swoop or life altering moment) and then there are those who have a bumpier and slower transition as they struggle with what they know and what they are used to.

I think your lapses will become fewer and fewer and I also think that there is something that triggers them. An inner rebellion. You have to find out what that trigger is and have a contingency plan. I'm not sure what.

*A laminated card with some horrid facts about the dairy/egg industries.
*some ready-to-eat delicious snack food stashed away.
*'Subsitute' foods. You can easily make vegan brownies which will taste just the same and get some soy cream cheese on crackers if that's what tempted you.
*Make sure you bring your own stuff to work events or outside functions.
Don't beat yourself up. You're only human and you're trying really hard and have made fantastic progress already.

[Smell]

I haven't had any lapses.. and I am 100% sure I never will. Not deliberately anyway.. I just couldn't. Now I know what I know, it doesn't tempt me in the slightest.

[Hemlock]

I daren't lapse because on the occasion when folk (my mum and restaurants) have accidentally given me stuff with dairy in my joints started swelling up again. I suffer from arthritis and it is fine as long as I don't touch dairy!!! Even a small amount is enough to set it off.

[Purity]

It's not just you. I think a lot of people don't have lapses (often people who made a decision to be vegan in one fell swoop or life altering moment) and then there are those who have a bumpier and slower transition as they struggle with what they know and what they are used to.

I think your lapses will become fewer and fewer and I also think that there is something that triggers them. An inner rebellion. You have to find out what that trigger is and have a contingency plan. I'm not sure what.

*A laminated card with some horrid facts about the dairy/egg industries.
*some ready-to-eat delicious snack food stashed away.
*'Subsitute' foods. You can easily make vegan brownies which will taste just the same and get some soy cream cheese on crackers if that's what tempted you.
*Make sure you bring your own stuff to work events or outside functions.
Don't beat yourself up. You're only human and you're trying really hard and have made fantastic progress already.

I think that's a great idea. What happened for me, is that after reading various websites about dairy, I found that each time I looked at a pint of milk I saw a pint of blood (sorry for being gross). When I look at cheese I can almost see it dripping with puss, almost see the bloody footprints left by leather shoes. My ethical standpoint is enough to stop me even thinking about eating dairy, but if it weren't then my imagination more than makes up for it!

I read a famous hypnotist's book about weight loss once, and he recommended this very method for beating cravings for high fat/unhealthy foods. Close your eyes and visualise what you're craving, then visualise it covered in something that makes you feel sick. Chances are when you open your eyes you'll find you don't want it anymore.

Finally, don't beat yourself up. You're doing the best you can, which is a hell of a lot more than the majority of this planet can be bothered to do :)

[Jo]

Thank you all. Good advice. Reassuring to hear that at least a few of you 'lapsed'. Funnily enough, I'm having a similar experience giving up dairy as I did when I became vegetarian. Any craving I had for meat was immediately squashed as I saw the animal in my mind. Now I'm finding that as each day passes the craving gets less and if it happens all the info. I've got from you and other sources come crowding in and the craving is gone. That lapse I had, I turned off and didn't think what I was doing. Perhaps my unconscious self wanted to see if I really was serious about my choice!
I'm on my way!:D

[twinkle]

...
I'm on my way!:D

Woohoo! :)

I didn't lapse when I first went vegan - about 4 years in I went through a very rough patch in my life and deliberately lapsed two or three times within a timescale of about a month - I had piece of cheese on toast one time, and a small milk chocolate bar another. I didn't enjoy them that much, decided not to do it again, and have continued to be vegan ever since. I've been vegan for over 9 years now (if you don't count those incidents).

[Cherry]

Finally, don't beat yourself up. You're doing the best you can, which is a hell of a lot more than the majority of this planet can be bothered to do :)

Quite :) Well done Jo, I'm glad you're on your way :D
(I'm also glad this thread turned into a much more constructive one ;) )