Animal products and diabetes

[Tigerlily]

All I'm getting is vegan propaganda...I'd rather have more unbiased info. :o

[vegancookie]

I don't think being vegan relates to diabetes so much as the actual diet a person eats. Obviously there are very healthy vegans but also vegans who eat a lot of processed, empty-calorie foods. I think being vegan lessens the chances of developing diabetes because vegans are often very health conscious and aware of what they are eating. I think the main things are to keep a healthy weight, consume enough "good fats" and whole grains, exercise apx. 30min/day, limit alcohol intake, and not smoke. I really believe that a vegan eating a healthy diet and exercising should definitely have a much lower chance of developing diabetes.

[Hemlock]

I've read several studies on diabetes and veganism which I can't give you links too as they are on the university medical database.
they all indicate that a switch to a healthy vegan diet improves the health status of people who are already type 2 diabetics.
However, they say that a low fat, low salt vegan diet is beneficial so it can be assummed if you are a vegan who eats deep fried vegan food every night with loads of salt and are obese which is wuite possible even on a vegan diet there is no reason why you shouldn't become diabetic at some point.

[Wildflower]

I was on vegan outreach last night and it said Seventh Day Adventist vegetarians had half the diabetes as regular americans.

[Tigerlily]

Hmm, interesting. I have a feeling I *could maybe* have diabetes. I just have a feeling in the back of my mind. But I keep on seeing on vegan sites that vegan diet is a cure all for everything and only obese people get diabetes. Hmm.

[Seaside]

I did a search and got... this thread! :D
I also got this though Tigerlily:
Type 2 Diabetes (http://veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3088)
I didn't use the search on the main page, I just used the "Search This Forum" on the Health forum's main page. Then you aren't searching the whole site. Is that what you did?
I would be surprised if you have diabetes, but you should get a blood sugar test if you are worried.

[Tigerlily]

Thanks, Seaside. My doctor is a loser and will just send me off with a prescription of some sort. I will have to wait until I move out to another city and find a new doctor.

[kokopelli]

Hmm, interesting. I have a feeling I *could maybe* have diabetes. I just have a feeling in the back of my mind. But I keep on seeing on vegan sites that vegan diet is a cure all for everything and only obese people get diabetes. Hmm.

Tigerlily, my middle son, aged 17, was just diagnosed with type 1 diabetes. He's been vegan for his whole life. After we suspected it might be diabetes, because his symptoms exactly matched (constant thirst and dry mouth, he was drinking 14 litres of juice and water a day, weakness, vomiting undigested food, sores which weren't healing and eventually blurred vision), the first doctor who visited us didn't think it could be diabetes because my son's slim and the doctor thought only younger children could exhibit type 1. But that's not true. Apparently type 1 diabetes can manifest itself any time up till about age 25, and commonly in teenage years. If you're really worried you might be diabetic and you have the symptoms, you should have your fasting blood sugar measured.

Type 1 diabetes typically emerges after a bout of illness. My children had all suffered very severe flu, the like of which I've never before experienced.

[Melanie]

I have type 1 diabetes, as kokopelli said, it is usually diagnosed after an illness (anyone know why?? :S) I took a fall at school when I was around 10, then it was diagnosed. I'd get your BS taken if you're worried, can never be too careful. :)
xxxxxx

[Seaside]

I have type 1 diabetes, as kokopelli said, it is usually diagnosed after an illness (anyone know why?? :S)
Page 169 of Diabetes: Prevention and Cure by C. Leigh Broadhurst says:

"Type I diabetes is thought to stem from an autoimmune reaction to the pancreas, where the body mistakenly attacks and destroys its own pancreatic cells. In addition, viral infections (such as whooping cough, mumps, hepatitis, and cocksakie) and prolonged use of antibiotics are thought to cause or contribute to Type I diabetes."

If you have a tendency to autoimmunity, and your immune system has been challenged by viral infection, this could indeed be the cause of developing Type I diabetes. This book is not a vegan dietary approach, but there is a lot of information about diabetes in it that you may not be able to get from your doctor, unless you have a holistic doctor. There is an excellent section full of foods and herbs to use that either support the pancreas, decrease the insulin resistance of cells, remove some of the sugar in the bloodstream, or act as plant based insulin does.

[Tigerlily]

My immune system is very strong! I think I only ever had the flu once when I was a kid, and it was only for a day or two.

The thing that is making me curious about having diabetes, is the fact that I urinate insane amounts everyday and I'm thirsty a lot. I probably urinate about 15-40 times a day and I'm not drinking crazy amounts of water either. I limit myself to 5-8 glasses a day even though I'm still thirsty for more. And every time I pee, it isn't a little tinkle with barely anything---it's like urinating with a full bladder every time.

[Melanie]

You shouldn't really limit yourself, just drink what you need. (and see a doctor asap)
seaside ; thanks for that :)
xxxx

[Tigerlily]

If I don't limit myself, I pee my pants. :o

I have to wait to see a doctor. My family doctor is a dickhead and won't take me seriously. :rolleyes:

[DoveInGreyClothing]

Demand a blood sugar test anyway- it's a very simple procedure! (They'll prick your finger and take a reading immediately).
Here in the uk you can even get this done at most chemist shops.

[Melanie]

If I don't limit myself, I pee my pants. :o

I have to wait to see a doctor. My family doctor is a dickhead and won't take me seriously. :rolleyes:
Ah ok! Limiting perhaps good then.
You could try going to your local hospital?

[kokopelli]

Yeah, my son was urinating far more frequently than usual too, not surprising considering how much he was drinking.

You must be able to get a blood test done somewhere.

The good news is, insulin doesn't come from cows or pigs anymore. The nurse who set up the insulin drip for my son when we arrived at hospital was vegetarian and he said his brother was vegan, so he made a point of showing us the label, saying it was synthetic human insulin.

[Melanie]

On a completely random note; I HATE the smell of insulin. YUCKY

[DoveInGreyClothing]

It smells of antiseptic methinks! (Has a diabetic partner)

[Geoff]

Apparently type 1 diabetes can manifest itself any time up till about age 25, and commonly in teenage years.
Type 1 diabetes typically emerges after a bout of illness. My children had all suffered very severe flu, the like of which I've never before experienced.

The endocrinologist diagnosed my diabetes as type 1 and I was over 60 when it manifested.
Following the McDougall Program (sic) I was able to get off the medication for some months but it didn't last and I'm now back on the tabs.
I'm convinced that there's a big emotional component to disease and I've just found studies that support this theory. There are references to such studies, from august publications like The Lancet, in 'Learned Optimism' by Martin Seligman. :)
BTW - I still think that the McDougall programme is worth following as my cholesterol is down to 2.9 (112 US).

[kokopelli]

I agree about the emotional aspect, at least to the extent that people with a predisposition to type 1 diabetes might possibly have particular personality traits that go along with the physical aspects. I meant to ask my son's endocrinologist whether he'd noticed anything like that amongst his patients.

I've been reading about herbs like gymnema sylvestris and pterocarpus marsupium that supposedly regenerate the pancreas and stimulate insulin production, but my son's unwilling to try them. He's worried about hypoglycaemia and also seems resigned to the idea that he'll be injecting insulin for the rest of his life. I tell him his auto-immune response is stretching so far that he won't even try helping himself. He also points out that the animal models they've used for testing the effects of these herbs involve chemical destruction of the pancreas, so regenerated cells aren't killed again by the auto-immune response as they would be in real type 1 diabetes.

What is the McDougall programme?
Are you sure you're really type 1?
We've been led to believe it's inevitable that type 1 people will be on insulin injections for life, and if it turns out they're able to stop, it probably means the initial diagnosis was wrong.

[Tigerlily]

Update:
My mom is going to make me an appointment with my doctor for a diabetes test. Hopefully he'll take me seriously! My paternal grandmother had diabetes, my paternal grandfather has diabetes. My mom's grandmother DIED from diabetes and she has an uncle with really bad diabetes too. It runs in family's right?

[Geoff]

What is the McDougall programme?
Are you sure you're really type 1?
We've been led to believe it's inevitable that type 1 people will be on insulin injections for life, and if it turns out they're able to stop, it probably means the initial diagnosis was wrong.

www.drmcdougall.com (http://www.drmcdougall.com) - vegan low fat high starch.
My Brisbane endocrinologist, who teaches at UQ, said that I was T1, based on blood tests but an American endocrinologist who posted on another vegan forum (now defunct) said that I'd be regarded as T2 in the US. Maybe I should move countries!
I'd do a McDougall live in programme if I could afford it but with air fares it would be around AU$ 10,000 which is too much! :)

[Melanie]

Update:
My mom is going to make me an appointment with my doctor for a diabetes test. Hopefully he'll take me seriously! My paternal grandmother had diabetes, my paternal grandfather has diabetes. My mom's grandmother DIED from diabetes and she has an uncle with really bad diabetes too. It runs in family's right?
It CAN run in families, I was the first in my family :(

[Apple_Blossem]

This article was on CNN Health today:

Vegan diet reverses diabetes symptoms, study finds

Friday, July 28, 2006; Posted: 12:08 p.m. EDT (16:08 GMT)

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- People who ate a low-fat vegan diet, cutting out all meat and dairy, lowered their blood sugar more and lost more weight than people on a standard American Diabetes Association diet, researchers said this week.

They lowered their cholesterol more and ended up with better kidney function, according to the report published in Diabetes Care, a journal published by the American Diabetes Association.
Participants said the vegan diet was easier to follow than most because they did not measure portions or count calories. Three of the vegan dieters dropped out of the study, compared with eight on the standard diet.

"I hope this study will rekindle interest in using diet changes first, rather than prescription drugs," Dr. Neal Barnard, president of the Physician's Committee for Responsible Medicine, which helped conduct the study, told a news conference Thursday.

An estimated 18 million Americans have type-2 diabetes, which results from a combination of genetics and poor eating and exercise habits. They run a high risk of heart disease, stroke, kidney failure, blindness and limb loss.

Barnard's team and colleagues at George Washington University, the University of Toronto and the University of North Carolina tested 99 people with type-2 diabetes, assigning them randomly to either a low-fat, low-sugar vegan diet or the standard American Diabetes Association diet.
After 22 weeks on the diet, 43 percent of those on the vegan diet and 26 percent of those on the standard diet were either able to stop taking some of their drugs such as insulin or glucose-control medications, or lowered the doses.

The vegan dieters lost 14 pounds on average while the diabetes association dieters lost 6.8 pounds.

An important level of glucose control called a1c fell by 1.23 points in the vegan group and by 0.38 in the group on the standard diet.

Dropping drugs

A1c gives a measure of how well-controlled blood sugar has been over the preceding three months.

In the dieters who did not change whatever cholesterol drugs they were on during the study, LDL or "bad" cholesterol fell by 21 percent in the vegan group and 10 percent in the standard diet group.

The vegan diet removed all animal products, including meat, fish and dairy. It was also low in added fat and in sugar.

The American Diabetes Association diet is more tailored, taking into account the patient's weight and cholesterol. Most patients on this diet cut calories significantly and were told to eat sugary and starchy foods in moderation.

All 99 participants met weekly with advisers who advised them on recipes, gave them tips for sticking to their respective diets and offered encouragement.

"We have got a combination here that works successfully," said Dr. David Jenkins of the University of Toronto, who worked on the study. "The message that we so often get with diet is that it is no good because nobody follows it for very long."

Dr. Joshua Cohen, George Washington University associate professor of medicine, said everyone found to have diabetes is told to start eating more carefully.

"That may be among the hardest things that any of us can do," Cohen told the news conference.

The vegan diet "is at least as good, if not better than, traditional approaches," Cohen said.

Vance Warren, a 36-year-old retired police officer living in Washington, said he lowered his a1c from 10.4, considered uncontrolled diabetes, to 5.1, considered a healthy level, over 18 months. "My life is much better being 74 pounds lighter," Warren told the news conference.

Copyright 2006 Reuters (http://www.cnn.com/interactive_legal.html#Reuters). All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

Original Article :

http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/07/28/vegan.diet.reut/index.html

[aubergine]

Excellent stuff. My mum's finally starting to listen to me now that she's been diagnosed with diabetes. She hates being a 'pill junky' as she puts it. Go Vegan then...