Animal products and diabetes

[akaredarcher]

My mum's finally starting to listen to me now that she's been diagnosed with diabetes. She hates being a 'pill junky' as she puts it.
My mother's had type-2 diabetes for years now (due to being overweight) - I wish she would listen to someone (anyone!) about her diet/lifestyle. She is also a 'pill junky' :rolleyes:

Diana

[eve]

Couldn't find anything using the search, but was sure it has been mentioned.

Anyhow, in today's Weekend Australian newspaper, there is a small article in a health area that headlines "Low-fat vegan diet the best for diabetics", and there is a paragraph relating to research in the latest issue of "Diabetes Care". It was a small research that involved 99 people with type 2 diabetes. Over 22 weeks it turns out that those following the vegan diet of fruit, veges, grains, and legumes, showed a dramatic improvement in blood glucose level, weight, and kidney function. This group also lost an average of 6.5 kg weight. Good to read in a national newspaper.

[Geoff]

From The Daily Telegraph:

Vegans avoid diabetes
By Maggie Fox

July 29, 2006 12:00

PEOPLE who eat a low-fat vegan diet, cut out all meat and dairy, lower their blood sugar lost more weight than people on a standard diabetic diet.

They lowered their cholesterol more and ended up with better kidney function, according to the report published in Diabetes Care, a journal published by the American Diabetes Association.

Participants said the vegan diet was easier to follow than most because they did not measure portions or count calories. Three of the vegan dieters dropped out of the study, compared to eight on the standard diet.

"I hope this study will rekindle interest in using diet changes first, rather than prescription drugs," Dr. Neal Barnard, president of the Physician's Committee for Responsible Medicine, which helped conduct the study, told Reuters.

An estimated 18 million Americans have type-2 diabetes, which results from a combination of genetics and poor eating and exercise habits. They run a high risk of heart disease, stroke, kidney failure, blindness and limb loss.

Barnard's team and colleagues at George Washington University, the University of Toronto and the University of North Carolina tested 99 people with type-2 diabetes, assigning them randomly to either a low-fat, low-sugar vegan diet or the standard American Diabetes Association diet.

After 22 weeks on the diet, 43 percent of those on the vegan diet and 26 percent of those on the standard diet were either able to stop taking some of their drugs such as insulin or glucose-control medications, or lowered the doses.

The vegan dieters lost 6.5 kg on average while the diabetes association dieters lost 3.1 kg

[aubergine]

Thanks Geoff.

[Cherry]

Hello. Great article. My auntie, two uncles and grandma all have diabetes. My auntie started to follow a vegan diet a year or two ago, but is now on a high protein ( read "high meat") diet because she says that following a vegan diet meant eating too many carbohydrates. My Uncle is slightly neurotic about carbohydrates and won't eat oranges, bananas, peas, carrots ... (although I've seen him with a bar of cadbury's fudge!!!!!!!!)

If you follow a vegan diet can you eat more carbohydrate than you would have been able to if you'd eaten meat/dairy? I don't really know what I can say to my Auntie to convince her to eat less meat. I'm not sure if it's just an excuse or if she was eating the wrong vegan foods. Any advice?

[fiamma]

Hi Cherry,
one of the problem with diabetes is when you follow a high-fat diet; fats push up blood sugar levels and keep them high. On the diet I follow as a vegan I eat relatively few starches like bread, pasta and grains -these are not very nutrient dense and I feel more energetic and less bloated when I concentrate more on veggies, fruit and legumes. So no need to consume lots of "traditional" carbs on a vegan diet, although of course everyone is different and what works for one person may not work for someone else. A friend who is diabetic has recently cut out meat (not so much for his diabetes but because he's trying to lose weight and also because they have been linked with causing cancer) and his diabetes is very stable. So I'd tell your auntie that fatty meats are a big no-no, and about the cancer link. What I'm trying to say really is that meat consumption in itself has no real negative effect on blood sugar, unless the meat in question is high in fat. I don't know what kind of meat she eats, but getting her to avoid the fatty ones would at least be a start. Good luck!

[herbwormwood]

Update:
My mom is going to make me an appointment with my doctor for a diabetes test. Hopefully he'll take me seriously! My paternal grandmother had diabetes, my paternal grandfather has diabetes. My mom's grandmother DIED from diabetes and she has an uncle with really bad diabetes too. It runs in family's right?

I think it is Type 1 diabetes which runs in families. Was it Type 1 diabetes you were concerned about?
What happened about your test?

[Tigerlily]

I do not have diabetes and my blood sugar levels are normal. The fact that I pee 4576543567 times a day is due to something else, most likely a small bladder, the doctor thinks.

[hollybee]

I think it is Type 1 diabetes which runs in families. Was it Type 1 diabetes you were concerned about?
What happened about your test?

Type 1 Diabetes is an autoimmune disease, and autoimmune diseases do run in families. My 71/2 year old daughter is diabetic. My husband has Lupus. All the children I know who have Type 1 diabetes have a parent or other close relative who suffers from an autoimmune disease.
Type 2 diabetes also runs in families. They are actually very different diseases. Type 2 has more to do with absorption of insulin rather than production (as in Type 1). That's why some people with Type 2 can control it with diet and exercise, or medication if necessary. It is not always necessary for a person with Type 2 diabetes to take insulin, while a person who has Type 1 has to go on insulin at the onset of the disease or she/he will die.

[Melanie]

I guess I was just REALLY unlucky to be the first in my family to get diabetes melitus (type1)
:(
xx

[j&k]

Coming in a little late here, but thought I would share some thoughts anyway.

The most recent scientific thinking is that Type II diabetes has a strong genetic component, whereas type I diabetes has a much weaker genetic component.

According to the human genome project:



Studies have shown that concordance in twins for Type I is minimal, therefore the inheritance factor of Type I is small. Researchers believe that a combination of environmental factors and, probably, viral antigens are responsible for Type I diabetes.

Type II diabetes is associated with obesity and with aging. It is a lifestyle-dependent disease, and has a strong genetic component (concordance in twins is 80-90%).

Many studies point to the fact that type 1 diabetes is caused by a couple of factors that must occur at the same time -- namely early introduction of cow's milk and a concurrent virus.

Another thing to keep in mind for type II diabetes is that exercise and proper diet are both essential. You should be walking 45 minutes, preferably on an incline a day, in addition to eating an optimal diet.

Here are some studies worth looking at:
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/87/7/3192

Muntoni S, Cocco P, Aru G, Cucca F. Nutritional factors and worldwide incidence of childhood type 1 diabetes. Am J Clin Nutr 2000;71:1525–9.

Dahl-Jorgensen K, Joner G, Hanssen KF. Relationship between cows’ milk consumption and incidence of IDDM in childhood. Diabetes Care 1991;14:1081–3.

Coleman DL, Kuzava JE, Leiter EH. Effect of diet on incidence of diabetes in nonobese diabetic mice. Diabetes 1990;39:432–6.

Gerstein H. Cow’s milk exposure and type I diabetes mellitus. Diabetes Care 1994;17:13–9.

Virtanen SM, Laara E, Hypponen E, et al. Cow’s milk consumption, HLA–DQB1 genotype, and type I diabetes. Diabetes 2000;49:912–7.

Hypponen E, Kenward MG, Virtanen SM, et al. Infant feeding, early weight gain, and risk of type I diabetes. Diabetes Care 1999;22:1961–5.


Verge CF, Howard NJ, Irwig L, et al. Environmental factors in childhood IDDM. A population-based, case-control study. Diabetes Care 1994;17:1381–9.



Karajalainen J, Martin JM, Knip M, et al. A bovine albumin peptide as a possible trigger of insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus. N Engl J Med 1992;327:302–7.



Best,
Josh

[eve]

one of the problem with diabetes is when you follow a high-fat diet; fats push up blood sugar levels and keep them high.

Hi fiamma, that may be true, but you don't know how irritating it is for me, a vegan, to hear doctors and others, including vegans, say that obesity leads to diabetes type 2, as well as too much fat etc. Well my diabetes #2 is inherited and I am not obese, neither do I eat fats - the only fat I consume is a dessertspoonful of flaxseed oil, and the occasional avocado.

You are right that everyone is different and what works for one person may not work for another. But I will say that my diabetes is completely under control, though I do watch my fruit intake and avoid, eg, too much watermelon and instead eat rockmelon which has a lower GI. I know quite a few people with diabetes #2 (doesn't EVERYONE have it now?) and they are all meat eaters. I don't know of any vegans around here where I live, though one good guy I met in Brisbane was a vegan and he was diagnosed with diabetes too, and he was not obese either. :)

[fiamma]

Hi eve,
I hope you didn't misunderstand the point I was trying to make; I wasn't intending any link between type 2 dibetes and obesity, in fact I know someone who suffers from Type 2, they eat meat and dairy but are not obese. I was merely talking from the experience of my friend, who has problems with his bloodsugar level when he eats food which are high in fat. A pizza with cheese, for example, causes problems whereas one with just tomatoes and vegetables does not. If he's in hypoglycaemia, he'll drink juice (low fat) rather than chocolate, which will make his blood sugar rise just the same, but it stays high and subsequently causes problems. Hope that clarifies things.
All the best, Fiamma

[eve]

hope your friend makes good progress, fiamma, (not surprised that the cheesy pizza causes problems) :)

[fiamma]

Thanks eve, he's got one of those infusion pumps now, which has improved his life immeasurably. All the best to you too.

[herbwormwood]

Coming in a little late here, but thought I would share some thoughts anyway.

The most recent scientific thinking is that Type II diabetes has a strong genetic component, whereas type I diabetes has a much weaker genetic component.

According to the human genome project: Studies have shown that concordance in twins for Type I is minimal, therefore the inheritance factor of Type I is small. Researchers believe that a combination of environmental factors and, probably, viral antigens are responsible for Type I diabetes.

Type II diabetes is associated with obesity and with aging. It is a lifestyle-dependent disease, and has a strong genetic component (concordance in twins is 80-90%).





Lifestyle dependent factors are learned from family members and it is difficult for researchers to distinguish learned lifestyle (eating, drinking and exercise habits) from genetic factors.

[Cherry]

Hi Cherry,
one of the problem with diabetes is when you follow a high-fat diet; fats push up blood sugar levels and keep them high.

Thanks Fiamma. Apologies for being a couple of months late with a reply (Tiscali :rolleyes: ). I didn't know that about fats. Thanks. I had a discussion recently with my Auntie. :( It didn't go brilliantly - she is crazy about Dr Bernstein and his diet, and said that "saturated fat is not bad for you". Hhhmmm. I'll make sure my Nanna knows to avoid fat though. (She's 87 today incidentally :D)


It CAN run in families, I was the first in my family :(

Unlike type 2, type 1 has recessive genes so it can still 'run in your family' without anyone in living memory having diabetes. Like ginger hair :)

[hollybee]

)



Unlike type 2, type 1 has recessive genes so it can still 'run in your family' without anyone in living memory having diabetes. Like ginger hair :)

Type 1 Diabetes is part of the larger family of auto-immune diseases. What researchers have discovered in Lupus is that the body lacks a single gene-the one that tells the immune system NOT to attack the rest of the body. The same is likely true in Type 1 diabetes. My husband's whole family has auto-immune diseases. My fear is that my little guy (a wonderful 3 1/2 year old) will end up with Lupus as well. He has a very strong immune system. He never seems to get sick from colds or flu, but is always the first to have an allergic reaction to pollen or dust.

[Cherry]

I hope your son will be ok Hollybee.


The same is likely true in Type 1 diabetes.
Gosh, I don't know much about the genetics of lupus or diabetes, I was just making an observation that traits can still 'run in your family' even if they don't seem to. I got the feeling that there were a few genes involved from what I read, even if one was most significant, but then you can't believe everything you read :)

[herbwormwood]

Type 1 Diabetes is part of the larger family of auto-immune diseases. What researchers have discovered in Lupus is that the body lacks a single gene-the one that tells the immune system NOT to attack the rest of the body. The same is likely true in Type 1 diabetes. My husband's whole family has auto-immune diseases. My fear is that my little guy (a wonderful 3 1/2 year old) will end up with Lupus as well. He has a very strong immune system. He never seems to get sick from colds or flu, but is always the first to have an allergic reaction to pollen or dust.

As you probably know, lupus is much less common in males, and is not inherited in the same way that illnesses like haemophilia, also the woman's genes generally play a larger role in inherited illnesses than the male's.
Ooops, what I mean is that if a male carries a risk of something in his genes, it does not necessarily show up. It would show up if the woman had the same gene trait, but not if she didn't. Its sonething to to with women having 2 X chromosomes and men having 1 X and 1 Y.
Allergies seem so much more common nowadays, so I doubt it means he will get lupus. I've got it, and I've never had a single allergy in my entire life.
PM me if you want more info.

[hollybee]

I hope your son will be ok Hollybee.




Thanks, Cherry. He's a terrific little boy. I am very careful not to mention that possibility in front of him, because he's also very perceptive and sensitive. He knows his father's very ill. I want him to continue to enjoy everything in his happy little life. He's very sensitive and will brood over things for a long time before telling us that he is upset or scared by something.

[hollybee]

As you probably know, lupus is much less common in males, and is not inherited in the same way that illnesses like haemophilia, also the woman's genes generally play a larger role in inherited illnesses than the male's.
Ooops, what I mean is that if a male carries a risk of something in his genes, it does not necessarily show up. It would show up if the woman had the same gene trait, but not if she didn't. Its sonething to to with women having 2 X chromosomes and men having 1 X and 1 Y.
Allergies seem so much more common nowadays, so I doubt it means he will get lupus. I've got it, and I've never had a single allergy in my entire life.
PM me if you want more info.


It looks like it's only the men in my husband's family who have been getting Lupus and other autoimmune diseases (until my daughter). He has a cousin who is a few years older; this cousin got the same form of Lupus at the same age my dh was when he was diagnosed. His grandfather had the skin form of the disease. So did several of his uncles. Another cousin is a Type 1 diabetic.

[hollybee]

I believe that an allergy is an immune response-the immune system is overresponding to an allergen. My dh had a terrible problem with allergies when we first came to CA. He has to take Claritin and Nasarel (a steroid nasal spray) daily or he will get terribly stuffed up by the middle of the day.
He came here a month before I got here with the children. Two days after he arrived here, he told me that his face was swelling up every morning. This was before we got any health insurance, so he was on no medications at all. This went on for a week before I remembered that I had severe allergy problems when I first moved to CA. He started taking Claritin, and that reduced the problem a lot.
Maybe I'm wrong. I certainly hope so.

[cedarblue]

i just heard about this video.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1407054601065907544&q=raw+vegan&hl=en

[fiamma]

That looks great Cedar. Hope I'll get a little free time soon so I can watch it :rolleyes: :D Thanks for the link.