Vegans don't use honey

[horselesspaul]

Doubble M (sic) is either about 12 or is a deliberately obtuse tw@t Risker. I couldn't be ar$ed to register to debunk his idiotic assertions (Pictures of cows are not vegan, wtf?!).

[Risker]

I felt pretty much the same, I kind of feel bad for not offering some support to fellow vegans but to be honest I just can't be arsed - the honey debate has just bled me dry.

[horselesspaul]

Somtimes it's just better to stay clear, eh.

[Haniska]

The website has it listed as vegetarian. Was it vegan before? Good job! I'm complaining about the chorizo.

[HappyVegan]

Must admit I didn't know what it was, had to look it up!

I'm not saying that everyone should just automatically know what it is, but if it's your job to label a dish, I would say you should find out exactly what each ingredient is instead of just assuming. I didn't mean to sound like "duh, what an idiot, that person doesn't know what chorizo is!!" ;):p

[Risker]

I agree :)

[philfox]

The website has it listed as vegetarian. Was it vegan before? Good job! I'm complaining about the chorizo.

they dont label dishes as vegan on the website (there are a couple of dishes that appear vegan to me) however it was on the show, they kept repeating over and over again that it was vegan. i was literally shouting at the screen :o :p

[Risker]

Our sincere apologies for the error in Frank's recipe. We have amended it on our website - www.cooksforcooks.com - so it now reads as a vegetarian recipe. To make it suitable for vegans, our chefs advise replacing the honey with Tate and Lyle Golden Syrup, or rock sugar, palm sugar or demera sugar.

Kind regards
Nina Rabaiotti
Daily Cooks Team
www.cooksforcooks.com

[Hemlock]

i liked the list of different kinds of vegans. like the different kinds of vegetarians i suppose. *sigh*

Yes that made me laugh - some are more extreme than others!!!
I'm very extreme, I only eat rocks:)
Idiots!

[Haniska]

I'm vegan level 5. I don't eat anything that casts a shadow!

[philfox]

I'm vegan level 5. I don't eat anything that casts a shadow!

i love that simpsons quote :) i often use it when people annoy me by asking if i eat fish, cream, or omlettes :p

[emmapresley]

wow :eek:
after reading the sort of reasoning and comments made by the people who've posted on that there itv food place, i'm awfully pleased to be part of a forum where intelligence rules

[xrodolfox]

I think it's quite easy to avoid honey, so I don't even see the reasons to eat it even if it was ethical. I also avoid soda pop, but at least there's no ethical quagmire about that; that's purely taste preference (and budget).

I'm all for bee's working their asses off for their own damn benefit. I'm also all for humans helping them by building places to nest, but I'm not all for taking their labor, least of all harming them in the process. Instects aren't our slaves, just as mammals, fish, crusteceans, and reptiles aren't our slaves either.

It's easy to avoid them, and there's nothing to miss.

I don't see why there's a compelling reason to consume honey at all.

[earthylovingirl]

i don't eat it. i don't feel it's mine to partake of..leave the bee's alone.

[EcoTribalVegan]

I've complained about a similar incident. In the paper they were discussing the Raw Food diet (which supposedly was vegan). However 50% of the recipes they used had honey. Which was funny, because on the preceding page there was a definition of Vegan which said vegans do not eat honey. So I wrote the newspaper telling them of their hypocrisy and error. I don't know if it sunk in or not though.

[Deadheadsam]

I've just read about how many commercial bee farmees treat their bees inhumanely, in ripping off heads of live males to make the ejaculate, etc.:(

What I want to know is if organic honey, although not technically veganic, is obtained in a humane way. Anybody know anything about organic honey?

[vєgαи gιяℓ]

I myself choose not to eat honey because it hurts the bees and destroys their way of living. The honey is their own food not ours.
These are my beliefs anyways lol.

[Deadheadsam]

I have also chosen not to eat honey.

[PaintedXSkyline]

same here. i dont use honey.
i use maple syrup to sweeten everything.

[dreamqueen]

I've just read about how many commercial bee farmees treat their bees inhumanely, in ripping off heads of live males to make the ejaculate, etc.:(

What I want to know is if organic honey, although not technically veganic, is obtained in a humane way. Anybody know anything about organic honey?

Smaller farmers (who tend to be the ones to make organic honey) might not kill their bees but they do tear off or clip the queen's wings so that she can't move the hive - and moving the hive every year is a natural instinct in bees.

So, while it's not as bad, it's still not good.

I'm frankly always surprised by the honey debate. I've always understood veganism to apply to all sentient beings who can feel pain - so why do so many people make a distinction with honey? I'm not trying to start a fight here, just wondering.

[missbettie]

I do my best not to do anything that exploits animals, and eating honey is exploiting, even if the bees weren't hurt I still wouldn't eat it.

[Haniska]

.

I'm frankly always surprised by the honey debate. I've always understood veganism to apply to all sentient beings who can feel pain - so why do so many people make a distinction with honey? I'm not trying to start a fight here, just wondering.

I think that people who eat honey are like people who eat anything else that kills/harms/exploits animals; and their reasons for doing so are the same.
Mostly though, for people that you would presume are compassionate, I like to think that they just don't know.

[Sasquatch]

Honey itself is more or less a byproduct of a very large industry. Commercial beekeepers (I have worked for one in the past) recieve most of their revenue from pollination, not the sale of honey. Obviously, there are not enough bees to naturally pollinate a large orchard without humans getting their dirty fingers involved. Bees are "maintained" for the purpose of industry, and this does include the regular destruction of non-producing queens, genetically modified bees, and the spread of disease from hive to hive in some cases. As with any kept animal, bees are exploited for their use to the full extent. Along with that, they are part of an overproducing agricultural industry that poisons our landbase with chemicals and exploits poor migrant workers for their labor. As with any consumer product, if you choose to buy it, you choose to support this. However, let it be known that not all farmers are part of this problem. Mutual respect for all animals and the landbase can be achieved and many farmers practice this.

[Mahk]

I've noticed that it seems a lot of people take a hard line attitude on this site that honey is not vegan compatible, but I've also met a lot of people in my travels who seem to disagree.
They are simply ill informed as to what the exact definition of the word vegan is. Society didn't invent the word, a specific man and his organization did.

The gentleman (Donald Watson) and his organization (The Vegan Society) that coined the term "vegan" gets to define exactly what it means, and no one else. If they say no honey, and they do (http://www.vegansociety.com/html/food/), then no honey. The organization that invented the word has the right to define it, not the general public.

If you want to be a vegan but also eat honey, go fishing, buy wool, whatever, you can't call yourself a true vegan. If you want you could say, "I'm close to a vegan, but I ..."


My personal belief is that honey is something bees naturally produce and will continue to do so till their deaths regardless of whether humans harvest it or not.

Also true of milk and eggs. We avoid those for the same reason, we don't "use" animals regardless if we "harm" them or not. When we go to a vegan restaurant, eat a food product labeled vegan, or eat a vegan meal prepared by someone else, we don't have to ask, "Do you use milk here? eggs? honey?" An animal derived ingredient is an animal derived ingredient, plain and simple.


It does not, to my way of thinking cause the bees or anyone else (save maybe the beekeeper) suffering to collect honey and they do not need to be coerced into making it, so I really don't see the problem here.


As Haniska put it earlier in the thread, bees are killed both accidentally, (for example smashed to death in the door hinge area of their house we've built for them when the beekeeper shuts it) and purposely (kill the queen (http://www.vegansociety.com/html/animals/exploitation/bees.php)to force a new one to be hatched, if I remember correctly). Obviously death is a form of suffering.

Bees need honey, it is their food. After we steal their food supply, we substitute it with a container of sugar water and assume they'll be content with that. Now in the news (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070422190612.htm)comes reports that bees are dying and we don't know why. Maybe the lack of micro-nutrients in their real honey, over decades, has caught up to produce a problem finally, I don't know, just a thought.

Korn has assembled a good list of links here. (http://veganforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=273539&postcount=124)

Korn, that would make for a good "sticky", so this question doesn't have to be answered repeatedly. Just a thought. A "honey sticky", so to speak. :D

[missbettie]

we don't really need honey any ways, there are other options, i.e. agave necter.

Besides honey taste icky... ;)