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foxytina_69
Apr 21st, 2004, 10:32 PM
what are your views on honey?

Veggie4Life139
Apr 22nd, 2004, 12:11 AM
I don't see how someone could abuse honeybees. But I guess they found a way knowing humans?

Human Jerky
Apr 22nd, 2004, 05:36 AM
I avoid it. I never really liked it anyway. It makes hunting for good wheat breads a total pain in the arse though. Hehehe...

globesetter
Apr 22nd, 2004, 08:38 AM
This is a good article explaining what happens to bees in the industry. The bees are horribly manipulated and do seem to suffer.


http://www.vegansociety.com/html/animals/exploitation/bees.php


I live in Austria - here there are many family owned honey production places - I have visited them, and they donīt seem to be bad for the bees, but there is still the ethical question - are other living things here for us to use for pleasure? There are no products from bees that are necessary for us, or vastly improve our quality of life. Personally, I like maple syrup and molasses more than honey.


regards,
globesetter

Kiva Dancer
Apr 23rd, 2004, 07:31 PM
Bee barf? Never really cared for it. In bread, if my choice is between bee-puke bread or cow juice bread, I'll go with the barf (and just won't eat any while that loaf is going).

Maple syrup is much better for a sweetner, IMO. Molasses, I've never tried.

We need the bees to pollenate things, but eating their vomit is a bit over the line to me.

Michael
Apr 25th, 2004, 07:56 PM
I eat honey, but I'll give it up some day. Right now when I go out to lunch (every week day) their are only a few semi-healthy vegan foods I can buy, and they all contain honey, so I'm stuck for the moment.

Roxy
Apr 25th, 2004, 08:00 PM
Here's a question. Would it be more ethical to eat organic honey? There is an organic grocery store near where I live and they sell this really yummy looking 3 bean salad in their deli. Trouble is - the dressing contains organic honey.

What do people think?

Roxy :confused:

tricia
Apr 26th, 2004, 01:36 AM
http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm

more info on honey...

foxytina_69
Apr 26th, 2004, 03:35 AM
If it were ok to eat someone because he's dumb, a lot of humans would be in trouble (starting with, say, George W. Bush).

lol!

poor little squishy honeybees.

propst89
Aug 15th, 2004, 10:38 PM
This may be a stupid question, but I was wondering if I could still be considered a vegan if I consume honey, usually only if it is already in an otherwise vegan cereal or bread. I used to tell people that I was a vegetarian who didn't eat any meat, eggs, drink milk, use refined sugar or use animal-tested products, but they would just stare at me like I was extremely stupid and ask, "So you are a vegan then?". I got tired of explaining when people would offer me a doughnut or a peanut butter sandwhich on buttermilk bread and just said I was vegan when someone asked. I was just wondering if this is somewhat acceptable, because I do feel terribly about saying that I am something that I am not.

Pembroke
Aug 15th, 2004, 11:36 PM
I myself don't use honey anymore. When I first became a vegan, it didn't cross my mind that much. But, honey is an animal product. Some people write insects off as insiginificant, but I've heard that honey bees are not treated humanely. I think that they sometimes rip off the queen bees wings.

Honey isn't that hard to avoid. I encourage you to try to avoid it as much as possible, wether you decide that it's acceptable or not.

:D

Vivisanctor
Aug 16th, 2004, 12:14 AM
This may be a stupid question, but I was wondering if I could still be considered a vegan if I consume honey
If your goal is to reduce the suffering of animals as much as possible, then you should not eat honey.

here is a quick, straighforward, and respectful writeup of my position:
http://www.resanigo.most.org.pl/zwierzeta/honey.html

it is important to note above all, that bees are exploited by humans whenever we use them for their honey. Humans use different methods of controlling them, in order to increase honey production and decrease problems with them. All of these methods cause a decrease in the well-being of the bee; not to mention that much of the time the best way to deal with them is to kill them.

Also, the killer bee was a product of man's greed. In an attempt to create a genetic hybrid bee which was capable of creating much more honey than regular honeybees, scientists engineered the killer bee. Obviously they made a grave error, and before they could correct their mistake, some of the bees got out into the wild and you know the rest of the story.

propst89
Aug 16th, 2004, 10:49 PM
I didn't know how terribly bees were treated in this process. Everyone I have asked has assured me that there is no harm in honey and that the bees are treated humanely. I don't know what I expected, but I am extremely greatful for the enlightenment. I shall consume honey no more!

Vivisanctor
Aug 17th, 2004, 02:26 AM
I am extremely greatful for the enlightenment.
You're very welcome! I commend you for cutting honey out of your diet. I feel unbelievably happy that my efforts have made a difference for animals!!



Everyone I have asked has assured me that there is no harm in honey and that the bees are treated humanely. I don't know what I expected, but I am extremely greatful for the enlightenment. I shall consume honey no more!
The word humane is useless at this point. Even the veal farmers use the term humane; while they sit there and purposely create an iron deficiency and atrophied muscles. BUT THEY ASSURE US THAT THE ANIMALS ARE TREATED HUMANELY!!!

What a disgusting species we are.

-----

Fruitbat
Aug 17th, 2004, 08:42 PM
For practical purposes I would have called myself a vegan but if anyone saw u eating a honey-containing product I would explain to them the true complicated issue. However I have always disliked honey greatly so that is no issue! I can detect honey in the lsightest amounts in things becos of the nasty taste!

negavert
Aug 18th, 2004, 10:01 AM
As an aside, if you want to use something to replace honey in cooking/baking, I'd recommend hunting down agave nectar, a sweetner derived from cactus. The brand I use used to have a regular and a dark version, which was great as a substitution for molasses, but now the dark kind has vanished off the shelves around here for the past 6 months...
But agave nectar is thick and syrupy like honey and even has a similar taste, albeit much more mild. But it's just enough to come through in cakes and cookies.

~*Blue*~
Sep 29th, 2004, 11:15 PM
If it were ok to eat someone because he's dumb, a lot of humans would be in trouble (starting with, say, George W. Bush).

lol!

poor little squishy honeybees.

lol! i got stung by my first one a month ago :mad: anyway...i ate a spoonful of honey as a kid and it made me want to throw up, so now i have an aversion to it. it really has nothing to do with the bees. i WANTED to give up eating meat as i truly felt bad for the animals. then i had to learn that seafood were animals that hurt too (this, i am still struggling with as i miss sushi). bees, they are currently last on the list for "living things that don't need to be exploited for your satisfaction." i'm working on it (being more educated on the subject) but at the moment, i'm not pressuring myself to be perfect otherwise i might just give up on what i'm working on (staying vegan).

Artichoke47
Sep 30th, 2004, 12:27 AM
I didn't see this thread initially. Honey is an animal product and is therefore not vegan. Bees are harmed in the process; they are exploited. Aren't most of us against exploitation by greedy bastards?

Besides, eating honey isn't necessary for enjoyment of food. I can make so much great vegan food. Who needs honey?

mysh
Sep 30th, 2004, 01:24 AM
Honey tastes delicious, especially on margarine laden white bread. The fact that it comes from the exploitation (and often, wanton murder) of bees leaves a bad afertaste in my mouth that even a spoon full of honey can't take away.

The link posted by tricia is what finally convinced me. I still have some doubts about certain aspects of the issue, but I'd rather err on the side of being respectful to my fellow earth-inhabitants.

ConsciousCuisine
Sep 30th, 2004, 02:01 AM
I didn't see this thread initially. Honey is an animal product and is therefore not vegan. Bees are harmed in the process; they are exploited. Aren't most of us against exploitation by greedy bastards?

Besides, eating honey isn't necessary for enjoyment of food. I can make so much great vegan food. Who needs honey?


Can I get an "AMEN!!!" ? Honey is made by insects. (animals) It is not a vegetable, fruit, seed, nut or grain. It is an animal product, therefore it is not Vegan. Vegans don't eat animal products. If you eat honey or cheese or pigs feet or whatever other non-vegan product you choose to eat, you are not Vegan. Period. It is a black and white issue, really. Honey is not Vegan. :rolleyes:

Artichoke47
Sep 30th, 2004, 02:05 AM
That restaurant, Soul Vegetarian, was claiming to be vegan when they serve honey in their desserts and BBQ sauce. I guess they finally decided to actually BE vegan and now certain ones aren't using honey; I'm guessing that enough people were annoyed with their lie.

cowpie
Sep 30th, 2004, 02:20 AM
I've always disliked honey. It's "sicky" sweet. I prefer maple syrup....yummmmmm. Honey is an animal product, therefore, it isn't vegan. It's as simple as that.

mysh
Sep 30th, 2004, 02:41 AM
Honey is an animal product, therefore, it isn't vegan. It's as simple as that.

Of course. But. I do have two reservations. The first (which has, to some degree, already been addressed by other threads) is, if a hive is deserted by the bees (of their own accord, or due to non-human caused influences), is any remaining honey "fair game"? There is an issue here of taking food from other animals that would otherwise eat the excess honey, and so disturbing the ecological balance, but in the absence of other honey eating animals, would eating "deserted" honey by ethically sound?

My second reservation really regards the treatment of bees versus the treatment of the hive as a whole. It seems that a hive is an organism much like a body, with the (fairly significant) difference that the cells/organs of this organism are able to wander quite far from the main organism without ceasing to be a part of it. Bees will sacrifice members of their own hive for the good of the hive as a whole. So is the killing of a single bee on par with scraping some living skin off a person's arm, or with the killing of that person?

I do realise that these are fairly hypothetical questions, but I'm really fascinated with the "why" of veganism (beyond the simple "for the animals"). And no matter what the answers to these questions might be, I'm still not going to eating honey.

ConsciousCuisine
Sep 30th, 2004, 04:01 AM
Forget the "ethics" surrounding this hypothetical "abandoned" bee hive. I don't want to eat bee vomit, horsesh*t, pigs feet or cow pus. Eating eggs that were "abandoned" by the chicken doesn't change the fact that consuming them is analogous to giving a cow or other animal a bl*w job. Period.

So, would I eat the "abandoned" honey? No, and not only because I think it's wrong to take from the creatures, but because I find even the thought of the act repugnant on a physical level as well.

John
Sep 30th, 2004, 04:16 AM
Come on now. Just because the bees live communally doesn't mean they aren't individuals. A human soldier is an individual but he or she is expected to give his or her live if ordered to do so. Can we get some love for the bees? I just got stung the other day but I don't hold a grudge.