View Full Version : What do you reckon the meat industry does to save itself (and fight veg*nism?)

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Mar 22nd, 2008, 11:02 PM
I read about that too, Haniska. Seems even more cruel...if you can define levels of cruelty.

Mar 22nd, 2008, 11:27 PM
i've seen the video, it's incredibly haunting :(

Mar 23rd, 2008, 06:21 AM
I'm surprised to read your suggestions of violence, Korn, when you say:

"A third way would be to pay someone to destroy their buildings etc. Very few people sympathize with people who use brutal methods."

Mar 23rd, 2008, 07:40 AM
No - I'm not suggesting violence! I'm saying that it would be beneficial for the meat industry to try to create a link between it's opponents and terror-like methods, because that would make the meat industry appear as the good guys and the anti-meat movement look like the bead guys, a bit like some people 'plant' false rumors about their political opponents only to gain sympathy. If thy would make it look like some eco-terrorists eg. have used a bomb against their buildings, it would be easier to convince media etc. that veg*ns and people who support animals rights are only 'extremists'.

Of course, since some members of groups like ALF already are using such methods, the meat industry don't have to pay someone for doing it (unless some of these people already are paid by meat lobbyists...).

Mar 23rd, 2008, 07:41 AM
My understanding is that kosher beef must have the heart beating as the cattle are bled to death but there is no necessity for them to be conscious while this happens. The fully conscious ones we see in the Agriprocessors Iowa USA video are probably ones that dodged the captive bolt gun which normally knocks them out. [Or they wake up from the trauma of the neck cut/ trachea esophagus rip out, I'm not sure] In the longer versions of the video you see that some cattle that come out of the flip machine are definitely unconscious.

There are a growing number of Jews that consider the kosher organizations that approve these disgusting acts as being unacceptable on ethical grounds:

More here. (http://www.goveg.com/jsfkosher.asp)

Mar 23rd, 2008, 08:04 AM
I just watched the short version of "If This Is Kosher". I am haunted by those images. There is nothing, in any way, humane about those methods of killing. From what I can see "kosher" slaughter is a farce.

Mar 23rd, 2008, 03:59 PM
I don't think that kosher claims to be humane, more so something to do with making sure the blood is drained out, per the Bible. Kosher also means only eating the front half of the cow, which is altogether morbid.

Mar 23rd, 2008, 06:19 PM
We are all talking about "kosher" as if it is a set set of rules with no gray areas and that's not true. Just like asking what is the Christian view on, say, "abortion" there is not just a single undisputed universal way of thinking about it. A Catholic Christian may think one way whereas a Protestant Christian may think another way; yet they are both Christians. That being said, there are still nearly universal shared views on what is and isn't kosher for the large majority of Jews and I think the delusion that their method of slaughter is more "humane" is one of them:

"Ritual slaughter is known as shechitah, and the person who performs the slaughter is called a shochet, both from the Hebrew root Shin-Cheit-Tav, meaning to destroy or kill. The method of slaughter is a quick, deep stroke across the throat with a perfectly sharp blade with no nicks or unevenness. This method is painless, causes unconsciousness within two seconds, and is widely recognized as the most humane method of slaughter possible.

Another advantage of shechitah is that it ensures rapid, complete draining of the blood, which is also necessary to render the meat kosher."

Source. (http://www.jewfaq.org/kashrut.htm#Shechitah)

I guess whoever wrote this hasn't seen the video. ;)

Mar 26th, 2008, 07:21 AM
It's all disgusting-slaughter is slaughter. There is nothing humane about it. It all makes me sick (from how they are treated throughout their life right through to the horrible end) :( How people can support such cruel industries (dairy/eggs/meat) is beyond me.

Mar 26th, 2008, 08:16 AM
members of groups like ALF
ALF do say "4. TO take all necessary precautions against harming any animal, human and non-human."
.. Maybe you're thinking of the RCALB? :)

About any slaughter method could be described as 'humane' if people wanted it to as it is such a subjective term .. But often in slaughterhouses as the line moves so quickly its hard to make sure that they are 'treated in a humane way' , with reports of some being still alive when sent to be skinned ..
I guess ignorance is a big tool for the meat industry ..

Mar 26th, 2008, 08:25 AM
ALF do say "4. TO take all necessary precautions against harming any animal, human and non-human."
.. Maybe you're thinking of the RCALB? :)

No, I'm thinking of ALF. If you read my post again, it isn't about harming animals or humans, but destroying buildings etc.

Mar 26th, 2008, 09:10 AM
'Very few people sympathize with people who use brutal methods.' was really what I was replying to .. but never mind .. OT... :)

Mar 26th, 2008, 04:09 PM
There are loooooads of adverts on the telly about calcium, milk, blah blah blah. And obviously, to most vegans anyway, the milk industry could not exist without the beef industry. That's one way they do it.

Also, most go on about how their animals had happy lives.

Most mainly rely on the fact that most meat eaters don't care enough to check or do anything about it and carry on the way they where brought up.

Mar 27th, 2008, 02:14 AM
;38604']You've got to be kidding me....

If this is the case shouldn't anyone harmed by pesticides (e.g. every single person on earth with cancer) be filing a class action suit against those companies?

Mate, ease up on my people:)! They don't know what caused my leukaemia, my personal (unproven) theory is that it may have been a quirk of genetics...

I can't believe the meat people would do that! Honestly, do they really think they have the evidence to back it up?

Mar 31st, 2008, 05:56 PM
"This method is painless, causes unconsciousness within two seconds, and is widely recognized as the most humane method of slaughter possible. "

I guess whoever wrote this hasn't seen the video. ;)

I guess whoever wrote that hasn't had their throat cut to speak from experience. How would they know???

Aug 25th, 2009, 08:37 PM
I stumbled upon this article today:

The United States Meat Industry at a Glance (http://www.meatami.com/ht/d/sp/i/47465/pid/47465)

The meat and poultry industry is the largest segment of U.S. agriculture. Total meat and poultry production in 2007 reached more than 91 billion pounds.

In 2007, the meat and poultry industry processed
9 billion chickens
34.2 million cattle
271 million turkeys
2.7 million sheep
109 million hogs and lambs

In 2007, American meat companies produced
36.6 billion pounds of chicken
26.5 billion pounds of beef
21.9 billion pounds of pork
6 billion pounds of turkey
334 million pounds of veal, lamb and mutton

And, some Canadian meat industry (http://www.ats-sea.agr.gc.ca/pro/4226-eng.htm) numbers:

In 2007, there were:

14.2 million cattle and calves on approximately 90,000 farms and ranches with beef cattle. Alberta accounts for approximately 40% of this inventory. Farm cash receipts from the sale of cattle and calves in 2007 totalled $6.2 billion, 15% of total farm receipts.
14.9 million hogs on approximately 11,000 farms. Farm cash receipts from the sale of slaughter hogs in 2007 totalled $3.3 billion, 8% of total farm receipts.
879,000 sheep and lambs on approximately 12,000 farms. Canadian sheep production is mostly located in Alberta, Ontario and Quebec (72%). Farm cash receipts for sheep and lamb in 2007 totalled $125 million.
116,000 head of Canadian farmed raised venison on about 1,525 farms. Elk are primarily farmed in the west and red deer in the eastern provinces. Fallow deer, white-tailed deer and other venison species are found throughout Canada.
220,000 bison on about 1,900 farms in Canada. Bison production is primarily concentrated in the west at 85-90%.

With so much money involved, I wouldn't be surprised if the meat industry would do almost anything to keep the myth about humans needing meat (animal products) alive, including all the stuff the tobacco industry is known for: lying, holding back facts, 'buying' experts and lobbyists and so on.

Aug 26th, 2009, 02:03 AM
its utterly disgusting

Aug 26th, 2009, 09:37 AM
its utterly disgusting

I agree

Aug 26th, 2009, 01:58 PM
Does the meat industry really see the veg*an movement as that much of a threat, though? With those numbers, I seriously doubt it.

Aug 26th, 2009, 02:59 PM
To add, lately the TV where I live has been bombarded with ads for Hillshire Farms, where they have groups of people cooking meat or eating meat in various ways and go over how "pure" or "natural" the meat is and at the end of the commercial everyone screams "GO MEAT". The latest one is at a school during lunch and the kids are having an auction for this really *great* sandwhich overflowing with meat and finally the kid trades the sandwhich for a pony, then again, at the end all the little kids yell "GO MEAT".
I really don't like those commercials......

Aug 26th, 2009, 10:19 PM
The thought of all those lives being taken makes me feel really sad and despondent.
It is down to money though, isn't it? Things will only change when the demand for 'meat' declines............so, it's a case of plodding on and making changes where we can.
That's why I would encourage otherwise dubious companies when they produce a vegan product, by buying it................if there is a demand for vegan products that can only be a good thing. :)

Aug 27th, 2009, 12:16 PM
The disconnect between food and its source is a huge problem. Ask people to raise, kill and prepare a chicken for their table and...

I really have more respect for the people who do this openly (I live amongst such a community) than your average meat-eater, particularly the 'celebrity' bothams of this world who actually help foster the disconnect.

Aug 28th, 2009, 07:53 PM
I sort of know what you mean David, but humans seriously scare me. I couldn't respect anyone who raises and experiences being in a living beings company and then takes it and kills it. :confused:

While we were in Dublin, our hotel overlooked a field full of cows. At night the farmer would walk into the field and those lovely, gentle animals would dutifully follow him back to goodness knows where for the night. Then the next morning they would be led back into the field.

I couldn't help but ponder over HOW that man could do that day after day............make that connection with those animals, see how they trusted him enough to follow him and then.....................:(

Aug 28th, 2009, 08:47 PM
I really have more respect for the people who do this openly
I think this is a majority judgement among vegans, and one I completely & utterly disagree with. One that positively disturbs me. I think it involves misplaced respect for a person taking open & full responsibility for something, but while totally ignoring the moral content of what it is that person is taking responsibility for. [...insert useless paedo/Nazi analogy as required]
It'll be quite some moral landscape when wilful ignorance & inaction are morally worse than the act of killing without necessity itself.

Take a microcosm of 10,000 people baying for meat, addicted to its taste & texture and claiming to have no qualms with slaughter to satisfy themselves, but who, when faced with it, cannot bring themselves to kill, & you have a world without slaughter. Introduce 1 person with the psychological capacity to slaughter without any necessity, & you now have the supply to meet the previously benign demand and a new world of pointless killing. It's those who take responsibility, & when it comes to it accept & perform the killing who are the absolute basis of the situation. The greatest 'evil' lies with precisely those people.

Aug 28th, 2009, 11:31 PM
A co-worker of mine while eating a meat sandwich once said to me between bites, "If I had to kill the animals myself, I'd instantly become a vegetarian, myself."

I don't get him. I guess to him killing is allowed but he just doesn't want to be the one to do it.