What do you reckon the meat industry does to save itself (and fight veg*nism?)

[Gorilla]

First of all, I do not want to help the meat industry in any ways to increase their sales. However, I'm convinced that they work very hard to influence people to use more animal products, and not to trust info from vegan or vegetarian sources -in hidden ways.

The leaders of the tobacco industry tried to make us believe that they didn't consider nicotine addictive. The sugar industry is working hard against WHO/UN an others to fight the increasing negativity against sugar.

The meat industry is a special case. It's more brutal. Their profits come from killing animals, not selling plants (as the sugar and tobacco indutry does). Yet, we see rather few direct attempts from the meat industry to fight the veggie movement. They might understand that it wouldn't help much if they would, as represents for the killing industry, recommend people to eat more meat instead of increasing their intake of plants, as most other health experts recommend.

If they can't indluence, in the open, they must do it indirectly.

If I were to "save" the meat industry, I would think the best way to do so in the long run, was to try to do it in two parallel steps:

1) Influence the vegetarian and vegan movement in various ways not to be so concerned about the ethics of killing, but rather focus on how animals are treated, with focus on the worst cases.

2) Simultanously, I'd cooperate with or fund reform organisations that want to improve the factory farm industry, promote "humane" slaughtering, and make them look like support networks for animal farms.

If the factory farmers understand that the way they treat animals will get more and more negative attention, even from the meat eating Average Joe, they just have to improve anyway. If you can't fight them, why not join them?

If the meat industry will manage to change the focus in the vegan movement away from respect for life and respect for animals, towards certain ways of treating/killing animals, along with factory farm reforms, they would be able to reduce the growth of the veggie movement a lot.

If they, in 10-15 years from now could tell you anout all improvements factory farming has gone through, and at the same time managed to convert the veggie movement into a followers of some twisted kind of ethics which accepts killing but not harming, they'd still make a lot of money.

That's a very interesting point, and i have to say i pretty much agree with you there.

i've heard of people who went veggie in protest at the way animals are treated on factory farms, but became convinced that organic meat came from more humanely treated animals, so decided to eat only organic meat. they still seem to believe that it's ok to kill for food, and that it's natural (see Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall in the UK - never been a veggie but has this to say on the subject: Should I Become A Meat-Free Man? (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/foodmonthly/story/0,9950,951745,00.html) )

i know one guy who won't eat meat because of factory farmed conditions, but eats fish and dairy because that's apparently not cruel. i can't say i understand how someone can think killing is acceptable, but suffering during the animal's life is not.

i think the meat industry are trying all sorts of ways to promote its products - just look at the Atkins Diet. no matter how many nutritionists say it's really unhealthy, people will do it because they want to be thin without too much effort, and if skinny celebrities promote it many people will be brainwashed into thinking it'll work.

[Kevster]

That sounds pretty reasonable, reform is what the industry will probably get (or allow themselves to get) roped into. However, reform and improving welfare standards isn't particularly cheap. My lib dem MP reckons that meat should be far more expensive than it is at present to accommodate improvements in animal welfare, however, would people buy so much meat if it were more expensive?

Reforming is a buzz word around at the moment, everyone is trying to reform orgainsations that are inherently exploitative, IMF, WB, WTO, and policies...cutting third world debt, regulating multi nationals. But the problems still exist, scrap the lot and replace them with organisations that will eradicate debts from highly indebted countries, scrap the organisations that are supposed to reduce poverty (WB) but actually often do the opposite. Scrap the meat industry completely and everyone go vegan!!!!!

Pretty radical and revolutionary in a sense,

Kev

[~*Blue*~]

i know one guy who won't eat meat because of factory farmed conditions, but eats fish and dairy because that's apparently not cruel. i can't say i understand how someone can think killing is acceptable, but suffering during the animal's life is not.

i used to eat sushi (no other meat/dairy BUT i never called myself a vegetarian!)--i told myself that fish was good for me but realized that killing is unacceptable (regardless if i think the animal is cute/cuddley). i finally saw the error in my ways, so hopefully your friend will too!

with the atkins diet, zone diet, fat flush plan and other high protien diets, i don't think the meat industry even needs to worry about increasing their sales :(

[eve]

If I were to "save" the meat industry, I would think the best way to do so in th elong run, was to try to do it in two parallel steps:

1) Influence the vegetarian and vegan movement in various ways not to be so concerned about the ethics of killing, but rather focus on how animals are treated, with focus on the worst cases.

2) Simultanously, I'd cooperate with or fund reform organisations that want to improve the factory farm industry, promote "humane" slaughtering, and make them look like support networks for animal farms.

First, why would you want to save the meat industry? Second, influence the veg*n movement not to be concerned about killing? Why? Is killing ok by you? Thirdly, cooperate with factory farm industry to promote humane slaughtering? How can slaughter ever be humane?
Peter, are you serious or are you simply trying your best to rile vegans?

[TheFirstBus]

I figure the meat industy has already done a fair deal. I mean most of the poeple I talk to still don't imagine I can get the proper nutrition from a vegan diet. Meat industries agenda consists of propiganda, lies, murder. All the wonderful thgins that seem to make the world go round these days, it fits in quite well. I can't believe i hear of all these famous people that are veggie or vegan, I mean if they would stand up and say "this is why I am vegan, and this is why my diet works better than the meat diet" I think people would listen.

[Kim[ba]]

I agree, and can sympathize with you FirstBus. I too still have people telling me it's not possible to get enough protein on a vegetarian diet, much less a vegan diet :eek: I just tell them that personally it works for me, and I feel better since I've stopped eating meat, but some still persists that I'm only getting the minimum amount of nutrition just to stay alive! So ridiculous. If I was eating just enough to stay alive I wouldn't be walking, working, snowboarding, etc. So yeah, a lot of people believe the propaganda.

Anyways, I ran across this yesterday: National Cattlemen's Beef Association pays
for Anti-Vegan "Study" (http://www.vegsource.com/articles2/ncbs_vegan_study.htm)

Oh yeah, this reminds me
So why, then would a USDA representative make such a ridiculous claim? Could the many and strong ties between the USDA and the meat industry be one reason?
Remember those food pyramids we were shown all throughout elementary school? I do. As a child I always wanted to be vegetarian/vegan and after a certain age, you know...once your old enough to start deciding what you eat, where are the food pyramids then? By that time they've already hooked our attention at such an early age that most of us have no problem eating meat. I think, looking back, most of the propaganda I recieved, was as a child. :mad:

[Artichoke47]

Most omnivores haven't a clue how much protein a person needs in a day.

[veganfreak]

yeah, omnivores just think that I'm going to pass out from not having had enough protein. They get this look on their face like they think I'm going to die. But they really have no idea what the story is with protein, and for many of them (particularly anyone that grew up in the US and is older than about 30) they still think that milk, meat, eggs, and cheese are the foundations of a healthy diet.

Of course, that's only true if you define "healthy diet" as one that produces heart disease....

With that said, I don't think that there's much that the meat industry *wouldn't* do to save itself. Just look at some of the websites out there (e.g. animalscam).

[eve]

I posted this on another thread, but it seems to apply here too.

"I expect those of you who are in the US read this article?" http://www.vegsource.com/articles2/ncbs_vegan_study.htm

[phillip888]

Okay I know this is a list of URLs, but I would like people to read or at least scan them in order if you have the time:


http://www.consumerfreedom.com/
http://www.activistcash.com/

http://www.westonaprice.org/index.html

http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/usdahome
(yes the untied states federal governments funds the largest beef and dairy lobbying group in the world with citizen taxes, because we know they can't afford it themselves right? BTW you can thank the GOP for this, the small government party (ha ha))



Take a peek here to learn more about them, their ethics and politics:


www.sourcewatch.org

[feline01]

I'm very familiar with Weston Price, they are evil, anti-soy, pro-meat bastards. Their "researchers" pop on parenting forums, mothering magazines etc. to spread the word how horrible and unhealthy a veg*n diet is for children.

[adam antichrist]

i've heard of people who went veggie in protest at the way animals are treated on factory farms, but became convinced that organic meat came from more humanely treated animals, so decided to eat only organic meat.

There is no such thing as an organic slaughterhouse

[Kim[ba]]

The Weston A. Price Foundation is undertaking a new initiative to investigate instances and arrange possible legal assistance for individuals who believe that they or their child may have suffered serious physical or medical consequences as a result of ingesting one or more products containing soy.
You've got to be kidding me....

If this is the case shouldn't anyone harmed by pesticides (e.g. every single person on earth with cancer) be filing a class action suit against those companies?

[phillip888]

Sally fallon, the creator of weston a price org is very much the ann coulter of the beef and dairy lobbying industry. She's written multiple deceitful books to promote her product, and if you read her articles and book excerpts (I would never buy her books as they're revenue for her organization) you'll see the dim witted humorist side of her personality.

The soy article mentioned was pretty insane. It depends entirely on a study that used rodents that are genetically manipulated to easily grow tumors, force fed them GM soy that had been acid treated, more volume than they normally can consume, for an extended period of time. Not only was it an act of inexcusable cruelty, it was a failure sold as a success. If they would have fed beef and dairy to the same rodents they would have died quickly and painfully.

BTW Weston A Price was what kind of scientist?... That's right he was a dentist...


Surprise!

BTW read their 'site tour for vegetarians' where they try hard to keep people from going vegan (most of their funding is from dairy).


So if you read the USDA articles on sourcewatch, you'll see what industry/government in the US is already doing. Nothing short of mass murder to guarantee their profits.

[tails4wagging]

Every now and then the giant meat industry wheels out some so called expert to push the 'meat is healthier' argument. Usually this is when there hasa been a recent scare about meat, ie. bse, or fat is bad for you etc,.

We have a cattle market about 10 miles away and I hate being on the road on a wednesday as I see cattle wagons full of cattle or pigs going there and then to their death :mad: .

There is no such thing as cruelty free meat, whether it is organic or not.

[Spiral]

Ian 'Beefy' Botham is putting his not unconsiderable weight behind the British meat industry.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4306163.stm


"The measures we've put in place to ensure the eating quality of Quality Standard beef and lamb are, we believe, unparalleled within the UK industry schemes and should make for even greater consumer satisfaction as they enjoy great quality beef and lamb."

Perhaps consumers would like a visit to the slaughterhouse before their visit to the butcher or supermarket.

[PinkFluffyCloud]

Don't you feel that WE should all become spokespeople for Veganism, 'popping up' in magazines, etc wherever we get chance, to promote Veganism and its health benefits, especially to educate children? :)
It really annoys me that my son gets told (at school) that Meat and Cheese are 'healthy' foods. :( Of course he gets the truth at home! ;)

[dreama]

Well I'm not sure the meat industry has to bother with free range/organic meat. I see that as an entirely seperate movement. Even as a vegan I think that the welfare of the animal while alive is the most important thing rather then it being killed. Of course I'm against unneccary killing too but cruelty to animals while alive is even worse. If factory farming got banned tommorrow then the cost of meat would rise and more people would naturally decide to become veggie/vegan.

Organic meat is naturally more expensive because it costs a good deal more to treat an animal well then cut corners and treat it badly.

PFC: sadly they don't always publish controditiory letters in magazines with articles saying meat is good for you. I tried.

[Gorilla]

If factory farming got banned tommorrow then the cost of meat would rise and more people would naturally decide to become veggie/vegan.

i'm not sure that's true - the British government have been increasing the price of cigarettes way over the odds to try and stop people buying them, but it doesn't seem to have much effect on the number of smokers.

[celtic rose]

There is no such thing as an organic slaughterhouse
Good answer

[dreama]

Smoking is more adictive then eating meat which is mostly done out of ignorance. When I became fishitarian I didn't have cravings for meat at all even though I like the smell. I did crave fried egg though when I first became vegan. Some will still eat meat but the animals will have a better life style at least.

Oh there are organic slaughter houses. Killing is killing I suppose but there is a big differance between killing an animal in your average slaughter house where the animals aren't stunned properly half the time and are more or less tortured to death and killed quickly which I think is what Organic slaughter houses do.

[Korn]

there is a big differance between killing an animal in your average slaughter house where the animals aren't stunned properly half the time and are more or less tortured to death and killed quickly which I think is what Organic slaughter houses do.

It's their life that is different from each other, not their death.

[feline01]

Oh there are organic slaughter houses. Killing is killing I suppose but there is a big differance between killing an animal in your average slaughter house where the animals aren't stunned properly half the time and are more or less tortured to death and killed quickly which I think is what Organic slaughter houses do.
What is your definition of an organic slaughterhouse and where are they found? Is that like how kosher slaughterhouses are more humane? Here's a link (http://www.goveg.com/feat/agriprocessors/index.asp) to how much better kosher slaughterhouses are to standard ones and I have the feeling that "organic" slaughterhouses are about the same.

[Korn]

If I were to "save" the meat industry, I would think the best way to do so in the long run, was to try to do it in two parallel steps:

1) Influence the vegetarian and vegan movement in various ways not to be so concerned about the ethics of killing, but rather focus on how animals are treated, with focus on the worst cases.

2) Simultanously, I'd cooperate with or fund reform organisations that want to improve the factory farm industry, promote "humane" slaughtering, and make them look like support networks for animal farms.


A third way would be to pay someone to destroy their buildings etc. Very few people sympathize with people who use brutal methods.

[Haniska]

Isn't there something horrible about the slaughtering in kosher slaughterhouse, ie: the animal is hung upside down alive before killed? Temple Grandin said something or another about it in her book.