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harpy
Jun 7th, 2010, 10:14 AM
An article criticising the media's reporting of omega 3 research:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jun/05/bad-science-omega3-fish-oil

...with a lot of debate underneath.

patientia
Jun 7th, 2010, 11:07 AM
I love Ben Goldacre!

harpy
Jun 7th, 2010, 11:33 AM
Yes, he's good. Too bad no one in the meeja seems to take much notice of him, not even in his own publication (well, the Observer is run by the same outfit as the Guardian).

Just to be clear, I think omega 3 oils (not necessarily from fish) may well have some benefits, but it has yet to be shown that they have short-term intelligence-enhancing benefits, as far as I can see.

MoonDance
Jun 9th, 2010, 04:36 AM
Hmm, maybe I could spout out some of this info to my folks ... not that they'd listen to me, cos they 'love' fish. Pfft, they love it so much they eat it. :rolleyes:

Korn
Oct 11th, 2010, 09:49 AM
There are some speculation that all of the unwanted side effects of eating meat and other animal products don't come from the animal products themselves, but from the way they are processed.

There are many articles out there linking serious health problems to the actual protein or fat (or even B12) in animal products, not the the processing of the meat etc.. To make relevant studies easy to find (many health professionals are visiting this forum), I think it's a good idea to collect studies about health problems with the consumption of animal fat/protein etc. in one thread, so I just merged a couple of threads.

Here's another study:
Meat, fish protein linked to women's bowel disease (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6535SG20100605)

"Women who consumed the most protein were at more than triple the risk of being diagnosed with IBD, the researchers found; animal protein accounted for most of the risk. Risk was specifically associated with high intake of meat and fish, but not with dairy products or eggs", according to that article.

Two disclaimers: There may of course be studies on people consuming animal protein where the processing plays part of it, even if the processing isn't mentioned.
And there may be be articles reporting health problems associated with consuming processed animal products, where the reason for the heath problems actually is the animal product itself, and not the actual processing of it.

Korn
Feb 28th, 2011, 11:10 PM
MERCURY AND OTHER TOXIC METALS HARM BRAIN
In reality the high mercury levels in fish cause memory and mental function loss. "Symptoms of amnesic shellfish poisoning include possible permanent short-term memory loss." * The cultures eating the most fish (Inuit) have the lowest life expectancy of any group surviving to adulthood, while the Japanese who eat high amounts of fish have as their number 1 cause of death fish correlated stomach cancer. Toxins in fish include selenium, chromium, lead, arsenic, pcb's, pbb's, pvc's and every other nonbiodegradable toxin which is 100 to 1000 times more concentrated in the flesh of fish than in the water. (Rachel Carson's The Silent Spring dealt with among other things the massive loss of bird and fish life from DDT. Fish is the antibrain food as fruitarian and vegetarian geniuses DaVinci, Einstein, Ramanujan, Mary Shelley and others can attest. Linus Pauling, only person to win a Nobel Prize both for peace and his discovery of 6 elements, has written that an orthmolecule is a fruit molecule. They are the most similar to the neural transmitters in the brain. There is no vitamin C (speeds flow of nerve signals across synapses) in fish or animal flesh or in animal products.) The EPA issued 3500 warnings against fish consumption in one year alone. Arsenic poisoning (arsenic from the oceans is concentrated in the flesh of fishes) creates lesions and warts on the hands.

And this is apparently how it happens (according to a non-vegan source, as you can tell:)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c5/MercuryFoodChain-01.png/300px-MercuryFoodChain-01.png


(From How Mercury Gets Into Fish We Eat Discovered By Researchers From Hebrew University (http://beforeitsnews.com/story/449/382/How_Mercury_Gets_Into_Fish_We_Eat_Discovered_By_Re searchers_From_Hebrew_University.html))

harpy
Feb 28th, 2011, 11:41 PM
Yum, mercury - my favourite.

Clueless Git
Mar 1st, 2011, 09:02 AM
Blimey that was a long one, as the actress said to the bishop!

Lots of interesting stuff in it though - many thanks for taking the time to post it Vegan1969 :)

Purely for the sake of being pedantic ..

I would imagine that the Hebrew University did not produce the diagram in Korns post suggesting that people can eat any 'unlimited' Oysters any more than, and for the same reason that, they would not have suggested eating unlimited bacon sandwhiches.

The buddhism and 'karmic consequences' bits; As predicted by the buddha (that his teachings would become corrupted after his death) the vast majority of modern day buddhists would (it seems) find an excuse to actualy "eat the flesh of their own dear children" (as the buddha allegoricaly described the feeling that buddhists should have about eating ANY sentient being) rather than be vegetarian.

The buddha also named three 'contemplations' that lead directly to madness; One of those was the contemplation of karma in the context of trying to work out, with any precision, the past causes of current effects and/or the future effects of current causes.

khadagan
Mar 1st, 2011, 01:51 PM
Great post!

I've been reading it a few times and read it out to a few people now as well. I'm now looking at the links so I can bombard people with it on my Facebook (mostly just my family and close friends), I think I'm driving everyone nuts lately with all the research info I'm finding on this forum and I'm always generous is sharing what I know :). I'm loving all this information though!

Korn
Feb 20th, 2015, 07:11 PM
From http://www.pcrm.org/health/reports/american-seafood-somethings-fishy:

Notice anything fishy lately? With many Americans giving up some forms of meat during the 40-day period of Lent, fast food companies have been ramping up advertising campaigns and launching brand new menus centered on fish.
This year, consumers are being reeled in by nearly a dozen heavily promoted fish and shellfish options, including the new McDonald’s Filet-O-Fish with Old Bay seasoning (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/going-out-guide/wp/2015/02/09/can-old-bay-give-new-life-to-the-mcdonalds-filet-o-fish-sandwich/), Burger King Big Fish Sandwich (http://www.bk.com/en/us/menu-nutrition/lunch-and-dinner-menu-202/fish-and-chicken-221/big-fish-sandwich-m133/index.html), Wendy’s Premium Cod Fillet Sandwich (http://www.wendys.com/en-us/chicken/premium-cod-fillet-sandwich), and Popeyes Seafood Mardi Gras (http://popeyes.com/menu/seafood/). McDonald’s has reported that25 percent (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/advertising/adtrack/2009-04-05-mcdonalds-fish-ad_N.htm) of the entire year’s Filet-O-Fish sales occur during this six-week period.
And fast food restaurants aren’t the only ones reporting a growing trend in fish sales. Seafood Business Magazine recently reported that during the first week of Lent alone, salmon sales jump by 30 percent, while cod sales rise by 60 percent.
Unfortunately, many of these advertisements inaccurately portray fish as a health food that can benefit both heart and brain health. In reality, the fast food and fish industries are baiting consumers with myths.
Here are four facts you may not know about fish:1. Fish is high in cholesterol.
Touted as a health food, fish has a reputation for being heart-healthy. People who opt for fish to try to protect their hearts might not realize that fish is often high in cholesterol.
While a 3-ounce T-bone steak contains 70 milligrams of cholesterol, three ounces of shrimp contain 161 milligrams. Numerous studies have shown that dietary cholesterol consumption corresponds with an increased risk for artery blockage (http://www.pcrm.org/health/health-topics/cholesterol-and-heart-disease).
The good news is that by eliminating foods that contain cholesterol, like fish, and opting for naturally cholesterol-free plant foods, people can reduce both their cholesterol levels and their risk of heart disease. Research has shown that every 1 percent reduction in cholesterol can reduce heart disease risk by 2 percent.
2. Most of the fat in fish is not heart-healthy fat.
While fish does contain omega-3 fats, most of the fat in fish is not heart healthy. Between 15 and 30 percent of the fat in fish is actually saturated fat (http://www.pcrm.org/health/health-topics/organic-meats-are-not-health-foods), which stimulates the liver to produce more cholesterol. High-fat foods are associated with poor heart health outcomes.
Fish is often celebrated for being low in fat, but this is often not the case: 52 percent of the calories in Chinook salmon come from fat. Plant foods, on the other hand, are often naturally low in fat. Only 2 percent of the calories in rice and 4 percent of the calories in beans come from fat. Research has shown that diets low in fat are best for preventing heart disease.
In 1990, Dean Ornish, M.D., demonstrated that a low-fat vegetarian diet is capable of reversing heart disease. He put patients with heart disease on a low-fat, plant-based diet, and in one year, 82 percent showed a measurable reversal of their coronary artery blockages.
3. Supplementing with fish oil may do more harm than good.
In recent years, fish oil has been hailed as a miracle cure for everything from heart disease to dementia. Many people supplement with fish oil to increase their intake of omega-3 fatty acids, which are important for maintaining cellular function. Unfortunately, studies have shown that most of the health claims associated with fish oil may be unfounded.
A comprehensive Journal of the American Medical Association analysis involving 20 studies and more than 68,000 patients showed no link (http://pcrm.org/health/medNews/fish-oil-does-not-benefit-heart) between fish oil and heart health (http://pcrm.org/health/medNews/fish-oil-does-not-benefit-heart). Similarly, a study published in the New England Journal of Medicine reported that patients who supplemented with fish oil did not reduce their risk of heart disease (http://www.pcrm.org/health/medNews/fish-oil-does-not-improve-heart-health).
Additionally, recent reports indicate no association between fish oil supplementation and the prevention or improvement of dementia symptoms (http://www.pcrm.org/health/medNews/fish-oil-supplements-no-help-to-heart-or-brain). Research has even shown that omega-3 supplements may increase (http://www.pcrm.org/health/medNews/fish-and-fish-oil-linked-to-diabetes-risk)diabetes (http://www.pcrm.org/health/medNews/fish-and-fish-oil-linked-to-diabetes-risk)and prostate cancer risk (http://www.pcrm.org/health/medNews/fish-oil-increases-prostate-cancer-risk). Fortunately, many plant foods contain alpha-linolenic acid or ALA, which is the only essential omega-3 fatty acid. Excellent sources of ALA include walnuts, soybeans, leafy greens, flaxseed, avocado, and broccoli.
By eating a diet rich in these foods, people can reap all the benefits of omega-3 fatty acids without any of the side effects associated with fish consumption. Research has even shown that women who follow vegan diets have higher levels of omega-3 fatty acids (http://pcrm.org/health/medNews/women-on-vegan-diets-have-more-long-chain-omega-3s) in their blood than those who consume diets rich in fish, meat, and dairy.
4. Fish are full of pollutants.
Because fish and shellfish live in increasingly polluted environments, toxins from the water accumulate in their bodies. Studies have shown that most of the fish throughout the world contain dangerously high levels of mercury.
Exposure to mercury, which is a toxic metal, has serious health consequences, including increased risk for cancer (http://www.pcrm.org/health/reports/fish), heart disease, and even death. A recent study revealed a link between mercury exposure and diabetes (http://www.pcrm.org/health/medNews/increased-mercury-leads-to-increased-risk-of). Among nearly 3,000 participants, those who consumed the most mercury over an 18-year period had a 65 percent greater risk for developing diabetes.
Fish also contain unsafe levels of polychlorinated biphenyls, which are dangerous chemicals that have been linked to neurological problems (http://www.pcrm.org/health/health-topics/organic-meats-are-not-health-foods) and birth defects in babies who have been exposed. A plant-based diet automatically reduces exposure to these toxins.

Andy_T
Feb 25th, 2015, 02:18 AM
Korn, your link did not work for me.

This one works:

http://www.pcrm.org/health/reports/american-seafood-somethings-fishy

LucyPevensie
Feb 26th, 2015, 06:28 AM
Fish contain more protein than meat. It helpful to control our heart and kidney system. No doubt fish is good for our health. Beside it we use fish as the best organic fertilizer as it gives all minerals needed by soil which is essential for plant growth. Overall we can say fish is both beneficial for animals as well as plant.

Clueless Git
Mar 1st, 2015, 08:48 AM
Beside it we use fish as the best organic fertilizer as it gives all minerals needed by soil which is essential for plant growth.

Fish is absolutely essential for plant growth. Yes

That is why plants couldn't grow on dry land untill after fish fertiliser using humans had evolved.

Other possibilities include:

1. Fish is not essential for plant growth.

and/or ...

2. The belief that fish is essential for plant growth points in the exact opposite direction of fish being good for the brain.

Eileen Dover
Mar 3rd, 2015, 10:01 AM
Fish is absolutely essential for plant growth. Yes

That is why plants couldn't grow on dry land untill after fish fertiliser using humans had evolved.

Other possibilities include:

1. Fish is not essential for plant growth.

and/or ...

2. The belief that fish is essential for plant growth points in the exact opposite direction of fish being good for the brain.

Now I know why I hang round with you :satisfied:

Robinwomb
Mar 7th, 2015, 03:47 AM
Fish is contain more protein than meat. It helpful to control our heart and kidney system. No doubt fish is good for our health. Beside it we use fish as the best organic fertilizer as it gives all minerals needed by soil which is essential for plant growth. Overall we can say fish is both beneficial for animals as well as plant.

I have been growing an all veganic garden for the last four years. No "organic fish matter" needed. Fish belong in water, not soil.

LucyPevensie
Mar 24th, 2015, 08:14 AM
Dear Clueless Git , You are agree with my point that you have written fish is essential for plant growth. But again you have written that fish is not necessary for plant growth in another point. So, what you want to say actually, is it depend upon condition of soil or anything else? Just write it clearly.

Clueless Git
Mar 24th, 2015, 11:47 AM
Dear Clueless Git , You are agree with my point that you have written fish is essential for plant growth. But again you have written that fish is not necessary for plant growth in another point. So, what you want to say actually, is it depend upon condition of soil or anything else? Just write it clearly.

Okey dokey, I'll say it more clearly m'dearie :)

Land plants evolved, survived and thrived for billions of years without people feeding them fish.

Land plants still survive and thrive in many fish free areas of the world.

Ipso de facto, Fish is NOT essential to plant growth.

harpy
Mar 24th, 2015, 03:36 PM
Clueless Git was just being sarcastic, Lucy. Obviously fish isn't essential for plant growth as plants grow without it.

If vegans garden or farm, they avoid the use of animal products. Here's a website dedicated to vegan and organic cultivation http://veganorganic.net/

Clueless Git
Mar 25th, 2015, 10:38 AM
Clueless Git was just being sarcastic, Lucy.

"Parodying omni-think" would be a kinder term?

Apologies Lucy, wasn't having a pop at you.

Was just having a pop at the part of omni-think that likes to turn the food chain upside down and throw the evolution of life into reverse.