Biofuel

[knittenkitten]

HERES (http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2004/11/23/feeding-cars-not-people/) a Feeding Cars, Not People article from George Monbiot thats relevant to this thread.

Yikes the farming industry run by the oil industry. :eek:

Thanks for posting this article, Gertvegan. I think it raises an important point concerning resource allocation:

"Though 800 million people are permanently malnourished, the global increase in crop production is being used to feed animals: the number of livestock on earth has quintupled since 1950.(9) The reason is that those who buy meat and dairy products have more purchasing power than those who buy only subsistence crops."

I can only imagine (please pardon my pessimisim) that a large-scale push for biodiesel would further increase the (mis)use of land for profit rather than for sustainably producing healthy, whole foods for those in need.

[Gliondrach]

Up to five per cent of diesel fuel at some filling stations contains rendered down animal fat from slaughter houses or frying fat from fast food places.

Listen to the BBC Radio 4 'Changing Places' episode which talks about bio-fuels. Click on the link below. If you are listening within the next 6 days, click on 'Listen to the latest edition'. If you are listening after that, click on 11th November, at right of page, and click on 'Listen to the programme in full'. When the Real Player box comes up click on cancel and then exit if you already have Real Player - which you probably do. If not and you want to customise it, follow the instructions.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/changingplaces.shtml

[gibby]

Ive been playing about with running my car on veg oil
Ive got very good results on veg oil but not wanting to pay for a conversion kit as they are quite expensive.
the link below shows how you can do it for a small price and not hurt the planet
http://www.alternativesouls.com/oil/

G

[Risker]

I'll bet you haven't been paying the tax though :D

How much can you get the oil for and where do you get it?

[gibby]

of course I pay the tax

you self cert each month - just register and say how much you use
cheapest is 43p a litre at the mo from somerfield
then send a cheque each month to those nice ppl at C&E

G

[Maisiepaisie]

My friend puts veg oil in her car. You can only do it with diesel cars and you should put in an equal amount of veg oil and diesel.

[fiamma]

I read an article where the car engine was completely wrecked. Don't know if it was sponsored by the petrol industry though :cool: Are you sure it's safe?

[Maisiepaisie]

of course I pay the tax

you self cert each month - just register and say how much you use
cheapest is 43p a litre at the mo from somerfield
then send a cheque each month to those nice ppl at C&E

GWhaaaaat!! You're supposed to pay tax on vegetable oil? I never heard that before. If its true the government have got an effin cheek taxing us for finding an alternative use for something :mad:

[Monday]

It does make me cross that the government think they should get extra money just cos you are putting it in your car instead of eating it!

It also makes me cross that there is all this talk of it being wrong to use bio-fuel cos there isn't enough land for it when if everyone was vegan there would be plenty of land for it.

Monday xx

[gibby]

if your doing it right it wont wreck the engine
the £40 unit is suitable for most cars to make sure its ok.

If the farmers switched to producing the veg oil rather than farming animals we would have enough land & food for everyone.

G

[Glen Lambert]

http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=burning-bunnies-for-biofuel-2009-10-14


The Swedes, those latter-day descendants of bloodthirsty Vikings, have found a new use for rabbits: heating fuel. According to Der Spiegel, stray rabbits in Stockholm (http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,654916,00.html) are being shot, frozen and then shipped to a heating plant to be incinerated.

[sparklingsights]

Oh my god. Why did I click this link?!
o_O

[phact0rri]

Such efforts have given rise to parody, including a prank in 2007 wherein members of the leftist activist group The Yes Men, masquerading as executives from Exxon Mobil, attempted to convince an audience of oil industry types that "Vivoleum (http://blogs.wsj.com/environmentalcapital/2007/06/15/vivoleum-is-people/)"—a proposed fuel to be made from dead people—was the fuel of the future. "We need something like whales, but infinitely more abundant," said Yes Man Andy Bichlbaum masquerading as Shepard Wolff of Exxon. Of course, making biofuel from human fat is illegal (http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=biodiesel-from-human-fat-illegal-no-2008-12-29) in the U.S.

hee hee.

[harpy]

I think we discussed this before and several of us thought fuel from dead people was quite a good idea. Two problems solved at once - I'd consent!

[sparklingsights]

^ agreed!

[LuVegan15]

:(

[Panzer]

bunnies are my favorite animal in the animal kingdom. Burning Humans???? Id go for that, its the other , other white meat lol.

[phact0rri]

I think we discussed this before and several of us thought fuel from dead people was quite a good idea. Two problems solved at once - I'd consent!

I assume this was before my time. :(

[harpy]

Yes it would have been a while ago phactOrri, and I can't find the thread now. But don't worry, there's still time to sign up for our human biofuel scheme ;)

[sparklingsights]

Ever since I was a kid I always thought it was ridiculous to bury people. (That was before I really knew about cremation). I thought, wow! What a waste of space! Just throw me in the woods and let me decompose!
...I've since learned that apparently that's illegal, ha.
I would liek to say I would 100% consent to my corpse being used for fuel.. but I think we really, really overuse fuel so I would hate to go to waste (haha). But the sentiment behind it I agree with.
That said, I say that when thinking about my own dead self... if I think about my parents dying, I doubt I would want to send them away to be used for fuel. I know it's just their body, yada yada... but still. Personally I would rather cremate them and make some sentimental jewelry or something.

Sorry, semi-off topic rambling.. it's early!

[harpy]

They have "green" burials here that are in specially designated woods. However there seem to be ecological objections to most ways of getting rid of bodies, including cremation, and as people are going to use fuel whether we like it or not this seems quite a good solution, provided everyone consents of course. I don't see it happening any time soon though because people are so squeamish.

[bradders]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8309156.stm

quite scary

[bradders]

personally I am a whatever you want to do with it after I'm gone kinda guy so medical uses first then science for the remainder, anything left I'd happily allow for food for animals or even fuel. It's no good to me.

As for the rabbits.
1. It is terrible that people are allowing pets to breed, especially to the degree that they literally throw out the offspring.
2. It's bad that they buy pet rabbits to start with
3. It's bad that the authorities are culling the animals rather than taking responsibility for the actions of the citizens and giving them shelter and dealing with the culprits.


However, once they've actually killed the rabbits I find it hard to find a credible argument against recycling the corpses for fuel, the alternative is burning them or burying them anyway. The main worry is that the chain could become dependent on rabbits as fuel in the same way that incinerators become dependant on a mix of combustibles including a range of recyclables. The consequences of this are much greater of course.

Really is quite a sad situation from start to finish.

[sparklingsights]

The Swedes, those latter-day descendants of bloodthirsty Vikings
Is it just me or does this read off as kind of derogatory? Not really something I would expect from something supposed to be "scientific"...


stray rabbits in Stockholm
I don't really understand this concept. I guess different continents have different animals... but how are rabbits strays? Aren't they wild animals?


attempted to convince an audience of oil industry types that "Vivoleum"—a proposed fuel to be made from dead people—was the fuel of the future.
WIN. As mentioned in this thread above, fab idea. I think a surprising amount of people worldwide would be accepting of this... but I'm quite confident it will never, ever happen.

[sparklingsights]

However, once they've actually killed the rabbits I find it hard to find a credible argument against recycling the corpses for fuel, the alternative is burning them or burying them anyway.
I'm sure you agree that they simply shouldn't be killing them in the first place. The issue here isn't that they're being used for fuel (at least that's what I understand), it's the concern that they're being killed for that purpose. If people want to scour the woods for dead animals that haven't been eaten or animals that have been killed by cars and left on the road and turn those into fuel - by all means.


The main worry is that the chain could become dependent on rabbits as fuel
I can see it now... 'factory farms' to 'produce' rabbits to use as fuel. Gag.