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gertvegan
Aug 29th, 2004, 04:57 PM
Warning Labels on Meat? The Herald, March 30 2004

Come clean on killer meat says MICHAEL MANSFIELD QC - The Big Idea: Warning labels on meat

How should drug pedlars be treated? Currently they are quoted on the stock exchange, legitimised by having worthies on their board of directors and are allowed to sell their products on every high street. All the recreational drugs lumped together manage to kill around 600 people a year in the UK, but tobacco terminates at least 120,000 lives and destroys the health of thousands more. Despite that carnage, it took 50 years simply to get a warning label stuck on packets of cigarettes. Why did it take so long? Read On.

Corruption of science, huge financial power, generous political lobbying and tame journalists all the techniques subsequently mastered and applied by the meat industry, which kills probably even more people than the tobacco companies. If it is necessary to have a government health warning on tobacco, then it is equally necessary to slap a similarly strong-worded caution on all meat products and dairy for that matter. And it should contain several warnings.
The latest anti-smoking proposal is to include, with the verbal warnings, pictures of diseased lungs or cancerous tongues. For meat it should be the terrified lamb having its throat cut or the diseased and dejected animals in the squalor and filth of an intensive pig farm. And if a "scratch and sniff" panel could be incorporated, so much the better.
The past 20 years have seen a swelling avalanche of science identifying meat and animal products as the major cause of modern degenerative diseases the so-called diseases of affluence. Heart disease, strokes, high blood pressure, diabetes, obesity, some cancers, bone diseases such as osteoporosis and a string of other ailments are all caused or made worse by animal products.
In 1990, the World Health Organisation issued a report that should have caused a storming of the Meat and Livestock Commission and a revolution in agriculture. Instead, it aroused as much press interest as Iain Duncan Smith's speaking tour. It said: "Diets associated with increases in chronic diseases are those rich in sugar, meat and other animal products, saturated (animal) fat and dietary cholesterol. If such trends continue, the end of this century will see cardiovascular disease and cancer established as major health problems in every country in the world." It went on to say: "The objectives in this report can be expected to meet with considerable opposition."
If you believe that governments would never bend the knee to lobbying and place commercial interests above those of human survival, remember BSE. "Beef is perfectly safe to eat," they said and set up a committee to investigate it which included no experts in that particular field. That's always a good starting point to avoid discovering the truth. So, the first warning on all meat products should be: "Meat can increase your risk of cancer, heart and other degenerative diseases and reduce your life expectancy."
Most animals killed for meat pigs, chickens, turkeys and ducks are reared in obscene, overcrowded concentration camps which mostly condemn them to spend their lives on filthy concrete or faeces-soaked litter (and there are plenty of problems with the so-called free-range animals as well). They are unable to fulfil most of their powerfully-ingrained natural instincts. The result, in the case of pigs, can be mental collapse. No-one is certain with poultry because they are not deemed important enough to investigate. Just as the Nazis turned irony into a sick joke with the words Arbeit Mach Frei above the gates of Auschwitz, and the Americans did with the words "Honour bound to defend freedom" over the gates of Guantanamo Bay's Camp Delta, so the meat industry plays a similar game with its constant claims of "the best animal welfare standards in the world". It's a lie they know it's a lie, we know and the animals know. The second warning should therefore say: "This product comes from animals which have been physically and mentally tortured."
So good are the welfare standards in these disease-ridden dens that antibiotics and a barrage of other drugs are regularly administered often on a daily basis to keep death from disease under some kind of control. And just for good measure, they administer even more antibiotics to make the animals grow unnaturally fast.
The outcome was entirely predictable and the world is now faced with deadly antibiotic-resistant strains of e-coli, salmonella and campylobacter.
So the third warning should be: "This product may kill you and your children with diseases for which we are rapidly running out of antidotes."
Meat constitutes the largest industry on earth but despite its wealth, receives massive subsidies to assist, among other things, its pillaging of the developing world. Despite Britain and most other European countries devoting most of its lands to grazing animals and growing their feed, it is not enough. Ninety per cent of all protein supplements are imported from the developing world at rock-bottom prices often the same countries suffering from starvation. An area of prime agricultural land the size of Britain, France, Italy and New Zealand is used to grow high-quality food to feed to Europe's farmed animals in an exercise of wanton vandalism.
It takes an average of 10kg of vegetable protein to produce just 1kg of meat in an insanely wasteful production line of misery. The West's addiction to dead animals is not just destroying its health but it is causing starvation, insecurity and death among the poorest people in the world. The fourth warning should be: "Buying this product will contribute to the death of 12 million children each year from starvation-linked diseases."
And there is a fifth caution. Despite warnings of impending environmental disaster from every knowledgeable source, the industry/military/ agricultural power brokers are deaf to all reason. They have to keep growing or collapse and this growth is quite literally destroying the globe. We all know it and do very little about it. Diet is the easiest way to have an immediate impact as livestock production and the growing of fodder to feed them is at the heart of every environmental problem spreading deserts, deforestation, soil erosion, global warming, acid rain, the overuse of water and water pollution. So the fifth warning should read: "If you want to contribute to destroying your children's future enjoy."
Just as the tobacco industry is still trying to present its products as somehow acceptable and the evidence against it as imperfect, so the meat industry is pushing meat through every avenue it can and it has some powerful allies. A couple of months ago, the Who issued a report calling on governments worldwide to promote healthy eating by encouraging people to increase the amount of fresh fruit and vegetables they eat. George Bush's administration responded by saying that this was poor science and there was no such thing as good and bad foods just personal responsibility.
Enough said. You know that if Mr Bush is opposed to something, it's probably right.

Kevster
Aug 29th, 2004, 05:11 PM
Interesting article, i think the amount of farm land in the UK set aside for animals or growing feed for animals is 85%.

Gorilla
Dec 27th, 2005, 04:41 PM
i have a friend who has schizophrenia and until recently was a vegetarian. she's 23 and hadn't eaten meat for 9 years. i thought for a while she might consider veganism as she's done vegan raw food diets before to lose weight, and she said she'd think about being vegan full-time.

suddenly though, she's decided that she needs meat protein to help her schizophrenia. she thinks that plant protein doesn't have the right components and that meat is cheaper for the amount and quality of protein it provides. she says she feels better every time she eats meat. :(

she said she was worried about telling me and of course i'm not going to stop being her friend because of this (i have some meat-eating friends and family anyway) but i told her i didn't agree with her change of heart. i don't want to nag her and i want her to be as healthy as possible, but i'm unsure how to help her realise that meat won't improve her condition. she says she's been eating things like frankfurters and sausages which aren't even 'good quality' meat, when before she ate loads of beans and lentils so she was getting plenty of protein as a vegetarian. she did eat a lot of dairy though, and she's a little overweight.

her parents are happy she's eating meat again as they were never very veg-friendly, and her mum was especially happy with the timing because she didn't want to have to cook a veggie alternative to their Christmas turkey. :rolleyes:

it hasn't made me think any less of her, but it's a bit upsetting for me. i'm not really sure what to do. i'm concerned about her health as well as obviously the animals. :( i haven't been able to find many good links on the internet that i could point her to so far.

DianeVegan
Dec 27th, 2005, 06:47 PM
Gorilla, she sounds like she was perhaps looking for a reason to continue eating meat. It's unfortunate that she did not feel the need to give you "proof" of her need for animal protein yet your are compelled to find proof otherwise for her. The only food I know of to probably avoid in schizophrenia is corn (I have an in-law who has had the illness for 30 years so this info is probably old. Goodness knows he won't even give up corn ingredients in food, much less animal).

Gorilla
Dec 27th, 2005, 06:51 PM
perhaps she's just making excuses to eat meat again, but she says she feels guilty because she knows how awful the industry it is. however she's telling herself that it's like the medication she has to take - it's cruel but she needs it to be healthy. :(

NorVegan
Jan 5th, 2006, 09:06 AM
Where has she read that? It is maybe a bit easier to argue if we know the reason behind her arguments?

harpy
Jan 5th, 2006, 10:19 AM
Unfortunately I don't think you can really argue with the claim that she feels better when she eats meat, because it is not something that can be proved either way. I imagine there is no scientific evidence that meat helps schizophrenia but that won't convince her that she doesn't feel better, and there is the usual difficulty of proving a negative.

FWIW there's a bit about nutrition and mental health if you google. For example, this article http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/press/preleases/pr/pr_539.htm makes tentative links between schizophrenia and nutrition at a national level, implying that dairy produce is bad for it and fish is good for it - presumably they didn't consider flax oil consumption :rolleyes:

Gorilla
Jan 5th, 2006, 10:43 AM
thanks harpy, you're right that i can't prove she doesn't feel better because of eating meat - it's a totally subjective thing, and even if it's psychosomatic, she still believes it's helping.

thanks for the link, i did do a Google search before but what i found wasn't very helpful. my friend has always eaten a lot of dairy and i don't think she's cut down recently, she tends to binge on things like cream, ice cream and chocolate quite often. she's started taking fish oil because she didn't think flaxseed oil was helping.

NorVegan
Jan 5th, 2006, 10:55 AM
Yes, but the problem is if she feel more guilty for eating meat, then she also have a negative effect o her mental health. Would have been nice if it was possible to find something that was vegan, and worked against the schizophrenia.

Regarding the fish oil, yes, it is not unlikely that she can hade advantages of a DHA supplement, but that is possible to get from algae’s.

Some amino acids is claimed to work against certain mental conditions, worth looking into?

harpy
Jan 5th, 2006, 12:35 PM
Gorilla's friend could try the algae-based supplements, though I think they work out more expensive than the fish ones so it will depend how committed she is (and how much money she's got).

Gorilla, I wonder if your friend actually wants to be veg*n or do you think she was mostly doing it to please you? I think you are right to be cautious about trying to change her mind, particularly as she's in a fragile state. You are doing your best already by telling her how you feel and sharing any relevant information.

thecatspajamas1
Jan 5th, 2006, 01:24 PM
How does schitzophrenia have anything to do with protein? I thought it was related to dopamine levels.

thecatspajamas1
Jan 5th, 2006, 01:36 PM
I was looking it up online, and I found a lot of info about schizophrenia and a specific protein. However, the lack of this specific protein ("reelin") is caused by the fact that a piece of DNA is missing- the piece of DNA that would normally manufacture this protein.

Your friend needs to understand that we don't get whole proteins by eating them. When we eat protein, they are broken down by digestion into amino acids, and then they are rebuilt into whatever proteins the DNA directs. This may be the confusion your friend is having- she thinks she can eat more protein and obtain more of this specific one, but it's not going to happen. Only by altering her genes could she produce more reelin.

Here are some links:
http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/38/24/15
http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/index.php?feed=Science&article=UPI-1-20051121-12193400-bc-us-neuronalprotein.xml
http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/001540.html

I also came across some equally interesting information- that drinking milk can lead to schiziphrenia for certain individuals:
http://www.mercola.com/1999/archive/milk_linked_to_autism.htm

NorVegan
Jan 5th, 2006, 01:37 PM
How does schitzophrenia have anything to do with protein? I thought it was related to dopamine levels.

I have no idea.

I don’t have good information about schizophrenia at all, but I do have a omni acquaintance whit suspected schizophrenia and she also claims that certain types of meat calms her down. The only thing I have been able to find out she gets from what she eats because of the whatever-it-is in her brain is protein and iron. She has also more or less permanent iron deficiency.

Regarding the algae, I don’t know the costs compared to fish, and I have little knowledge of prices of anything in UK. But if anyone is interested: http://www.healthspan.co.uk/shop/product.aspx?Id=CERE

harpy
Jan 5th, 2006, 03:39 PM
Are those ones vegan? They seem to contain glycerine, which may be animal-derived although it isn't always.

These ones are certified by the Vegan Society http://www.gvtc.co.uk/deva/omega3dha.html (they claim) but are slightly dearer (even allowing for the fact they are meant to have more of the active ingredient). However both kinds are considerably cheaper than the ones I bought a few months ago!

NorVegan
Jan 5th, 2006, 03:49 PM
Ouch! Now I am not sure, I got the link from another forum, and come to think of it because it was a UK company. Ordered the DEVA product from http://veganessentials.com/ so I didn’t think about that it could be in an UK shop (haven’t got any sleep for over 24 hours, my brain is not 100 %).

dreama
Jan 5th, 2006, 05:46 PM
Me and Jilli take Omega oil. I get it from 'goodness direct'. I'm not sure who makes it though.

Your friend would be better advised to give up dairy rather then go back to dead animals. Maybe if she knows how yummy vegan icecream is now she won't mind so much.

Gorilla
Jan 5th, 2006, 08:42 PM
my friend has very little money because she's on disability benefit due to her illness. she'd never shell out for vegan DHA or dairy-free ice cream. she was a vegetarian for nine years and i've only known her for about six months, so it's not as if she gave up meat because of me.

harpy
Jan 5th, 2006, 09:33 PM
I see - so she probably really does feel a bit guilty, then. FWIW I guess what I'd do in the circs is just try to be generally supportive of the friend, as it wouldn't help to make her feel any guiltier :(

You never know, if she gets a bit better for whatever reason she may rethink her decision.

Gorilla
Jan 5th, 2006, 09:43 PM
true, i'm not trying to make her feel guilty, in fact we've hardly spoken about it since she told me. i don't want to make her feel any worse.

thanks for the links catspajamas, the possible genetic link with mental illness sounds plausible, especially as it often seems to run in families.

cvC
Jan 6th, 2006, 02:50 PM
I remember having a look at a book about celiac disease, which I think I might have - I posted a link to a naan bread recipe yestarday, but do now avoid wheat myself - and it suggested a possible link between that and schizophrenia. This is something that I've found on the internet and it also says that a lot of celiacs have a dairy intolerance:

"Celiacs cannot digest the gluten contained in many grains. The body looks on it as a poison and starts an autoimmune response that damages the intestinal wall. Symptoms are bloated, inflamed stomach and intestine, diarrhea and/or chronic constipation, joint pain, headaches, belching repetitively, less often vomiting. There is a skin rash called Dermatits Herpetiformas that some people get which consists of itchy lesions on buttocks, scalp, elbow and knees. Creams make it worse and it only clears up if you go on a gluten free diet. A lot of celiacs have a dairy intolerance. Untreated celiac disease has been linked with diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, neurological problems, numb hands and feet, scizophrenia, central nervous system deterioration and lymphoma. Go to www.delphiforums.com click on Health and wellness, Celiac disease forum will be on next page and you can sign on as a guest to a forum just like this with celiac sufferers offering a wealth of information. cheers, Orla"

http://www.healthyawareness.com/_Archives/_can_gen75/000002df.htm

Purple
Apr 17th, 2007, 10:08 AM
Hoorah :) Vegans 1,255,489 - Meaters 0

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6560121.stm

Purple
Apr 17th, 2007, 10:11 AM
Red wine on the other hand...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3217527.stm

harpy
Apr 17th, 2007, 10:25 AM
Hmm. Can't feel pleased about people getting lung disease, but less bacon consumption would be good news for both people and pigs.

Purple
Apr 17th, 2007, 11:11 AM
Yes, you're quite right, I wasn't laughing at the lung disease part, just the extra argument in the vegan corner. Our work have started doing breakfasts (bacon sarnies, or veggie or vegan sausages). Next time people tuck into their bacon and say how good it tastes, I'll just send 'em that link :p

harpy
Apr 17th, 2007, 11:14 AM
Good idea, though there might be some competition for the vegan sausages after that :D