To mainsteam or to boycott?

[Mystic]

I would like to start a FRIENDLY debate between mainstreaming veganism, or boycotting "evil" corporations.
For example, I know McDonalds is horrible - it is responsible for the deaths and suffering of many animals, as well as contributing to obesity etc... But, what if they had a vegan option? Would you eat their hashbrowns and fries, as they contain no animal products? I personally believe that mainstreaming veganism not only makes life easier for us, but it shows these horrible corporations that there is a better way, and will hopefully eventually lead them in the right direction.
When responding, please keep in mind that all of us have different comfort zones with what we will and won't do...please respect that.

[treehugga]

Well as you know I'm not very respectful but I'll have a go!;)

I believe the only way to get through to the multigreeds is to boycott, but I understand the rationale of encouraging vegan options by choosing those if they're supplied.
HOWEVER
When you have a blatant corrupt company like Macca's, KFC, Nike, Nestles etc whose ethics are abbhorrant and target children. Then, No. I don't believe they deserve 1 cent of my hard earned cash to support their cause, which is pure greed.

[treehugga]

Every bit of money we give them supports ALL their revolting deeds.

There was a recent survey (can't remember where I read it now) but it said that despite the healthier alternatives the majority of food our already obese children were consuming from Macs was the crap options. The so called 'healthier' options were more to lure parents into the store.

WARNING STRONG OPINION

I believe that any parent who buys the calorie laden, malnourished food from 'those' stores is perpetrating a type of child abuse and contributing to major health problems later in life.

Even if tomorrow they said they would make 1/2 their menu vegan I would still not support them.

[vegan1969]

I believe the only way to get through to the multigreeds is to boycott, but I understand the rationale of encouraging vegan options by choosing those if they're supplied.
HOWEVER
When you have a blatant corrupt company like Macca's, KFC, Nike, Nestles etc whose ethics are abbhorrant and target children. Then, No. I don't believe they deserve 1 cent of my hard earned cash to support their cause, which is pure greed.

ditto

[thecatspajamas1]

When you buy from McDonald's, even if you're not buying meat, your money is going towards deforesting the rainforest. I love french fries, but if I want them I'll go to a diner or something.

I personally boycott McDonalds and Walmart, and there are a lot of other places I avoid (ex. fast food,)




When you have a blatant corrupt company like Macca's, KFC, Nike, Nestles etc whose ethics are abbhorrant and target children.

Tell me about Nestles. I never heard about what they do. You mean the chocolate company, right?

[chickendude]

And supporting foods that are "accidentally vegan" really don't send the message across. If a diner offered items that were specifically vegan (as in, they promoted it as vegan) and it wasn't just a regular entree that just happened to be animal-free, I would be much more compliant to try it, as I feel that sends more of a message.

[vegan1969]

When you buy from McDonald's, even if you're not buying meat, your money is going towards deforesting the rainforest. I love french fries, but if I want them I'll go to a diner or something.


do you know that there is beef tallow in McDeath fries? yuck!

[kriz]

I would eat there as long as I could be reassured tha my food wasn't fried with other meat - no cross contamination. To me ALL places where they serve meat are the same. The friendly family restaurant around the corner may (or most likely) serve factory farmed meat too...what's the difference?

[treehugga]

I would eat there as long as I could be reassured tha my food wasn't fried with other meat - no cross contamination. To me ALL places where they serve meat are the same. The friendly family restaurant around the corner may (or most likely) serve factory farmed meat too...what's the difference?

MacDonalds have blatant ad campaigns targeting children. They also take people to court who speak out against them. They devastate the environment and the meat they use comes from animals who are often still alive when they are being cut up because they are being butchered on such a massive scale. That's why I couldn't support them even if their unhealthy fries and hash browns were vegan.

[treehugga]

When you buy from McDonald's, even if you're not buying meat, your money is going towards deforesting the rainforest. I love french fries, but if I want them I'll go to a diner or something.

I personally boycott McDonalds and Walmart, and there are a lot of other places I avoid (ex. fast food,)




Tell me about Nestles. I never heard about what they do. You mean the chocolate company, right?

Yes the chocolate company.

They are targeting third world countries by selling and promoting poor quality powdered milk to women. It is promoted as a healthy option for their children. Women are doing this and not breastfeeding as a result, which means their children are not getting essential nutriments that they need and their health is suffering as a result. Nestles are also connected to Loreal, another company with appalling ethics. While we support these companies who are perpetrating these types of abuses, we are sending out a message that we are condoning their actions.

[treehugga]

I would like to start a FRIENDLY debate between mainstreaming veganism, or boycotting "evil" corporations.
For example, I know McDonalds is horrible - it is responsible for the deaths and suffering of many animals, as well as contributing to obesity etc... But, what if they had a vegan option? Would you eat their hashbrowns and fries, as they contain no animal products? I personally believe that mainstreaming veganism not only makes life easier for us, but it shows these horrible corporations that there is a better way, and will hopefully eventually lead them in the right direction.
When responding, please keep in mind that all of us have different comfort zones with what we will and won't do...please respect that.

Sticky, you are so spoilt for all the wonderful vegan options in Melbourne to eat out at. I wonder why you would bother consuming fries and hash browns instead of choosing to have similar options from a vegan friendly environment.

[treehugga]

I don't think corporations of that size and magnitude will ever care what we think. Even their 'healthy' options have been shown to be not so healthy- more fat in them than promoted, so how can we ever trust them when they continue to cook their veggie burgers along with meat patties and mix tallow with their fries.

[kriz]

I wouldn't hang out at McDonalds, that's for sure, but if I was on the road and there was nothing else around, and I KNEW that they had a VEGAN burger, which was made on a separate grill, then I MIGHT considering going there.

[treehugga]

I know what you mean. When my family drove up north on a holiday nearly every petrol station had either a MacDonalds or Hungry Jacks attached and often there would be nothing else for hundreds of kilometers. It's terrible how they have infiltrated even the outback.

[kriz]

Traveling in America is even worse, there are corporations EVERYWHERE...It makes no village unique or charming anymore. Well, small diners don't have much for vegans either, but at least they're not as ugly and greedy.

[Limey]

I dread when I have to travel and look for vegan fare. I haven't had to yet, so it's been nice and easy.
I can't imagine ever wanting anything from McDonald's or some other fast food place. Once upon a time I would consider it and even do it :eek:, but not now. I certainly wouldn't trust that their fries are cooked in their own oil. But when you have no other options, I guess you have to do something. :(

[m.t.ness]

I'm torn on this issue. If there was ever a concerted, honest mainstreaming movement in veganism, I would feel a certain amount of desire to support it. Naturally, of course, such a movement won't happen unless people like us demand it from a grassroots level, but still my aversion for mega-business is such that at this point I'm more inclined to avoid it as much as possible.

[Mystic]

Sticky, you are so spoilt for all the wonderful vegan options in Melbourne to eat out at. I wonder why you would bother consuming fries and hash browns instead of choosing to have similar options from a vegan friendly environment.

I am not saying that I have, it is just hypothetical ;) And trust me, I know how spoilt I am :D

[treehugga]

I'm glad you were starting to worry me for a moment:)

[herbwormwood]

but it shows these horrible corporations that there is a better way, and will hopefully eventually lead them in the right direction.
When responding, please keep in mind that all of us have different comfort zones with what we will and won't do...please respect that.

Unfortunately, McDonalds, Walmart and the rest want to maximise their profits. That's why they operate their companies in the ways they do.
I boycott as much as I can but I would never criticise anyone for not doing so. Some people I know here who don't boycott (I am not talking about people on VF but people I know here in my town who share my beliefs) have other priorities, like making ends meet and getting through their day without cracking up.

[treehugga]

I'm not sure what that last post meant :confused: .

I have clients who I do budgeting with and I'm horrified the amount of them who have absolutely no fruit and veg on their shopping dockets but visit Macs for tea with their kids 4-5 times a week. I don't mind telling them about the downfalls of their kids eating there. They are amazed at the lower cost of cooking budget meals with fresh fruit and veg and even more amazed at the kids enjoyment of eating them.

[herbwormwood]

I wasn't talking about MacDonalds specifically but boycott lists in general. If a person has limited free time and limited emotional resources and limited budget and a lot of other demands in their life they usually will do what is cheapest and most convenient, if that means not boycotting listed companies, they will not boycott. I quite agree it is cheaper to live off unprocessed foods.

[treehugga]

Oh. Now I'm with you :) .

Yes I think it's sad that more people don't boycott but would rather do something for convienience. People are amazed when I tell them how I shop (online & at health food shops and co ops etc). It's actually not that hard, time consuming or expensive. I work have a family, go to gym 5x a week and do numerous other things and manage to boycott and managed to do this financially quite easily even when I was a student, single parent living on govt payments. I think I'll write a book on it, maybe to try and inspire others on how to live well and easily on a budget while not supporting multi greeds.

[Wildflower]

I dread when I have to travel and look for vegan fare. I haven't had to yet, so it's been nice and easy.
I can't imagine ever wanting anything from McDonald's or some other fast food place. Once upon a time I would consider it and even do it :eek:, but not now. I certainly wouldn't trust that their fries are cooked in their own oil. But when you have no other options, I guess you have to do something. :(

Try Subway!

They seem to be everywhere i travel in the US, and you can get a veggie sandwich on vegan bread - it's yummy. :)

I wasn't raised on fast food, so it never occurs to me to stop at those places. I travel in the car a lot, and i if I am hungry, I will stop at a gas station/quicky mart kinda place and buy some convience food (like nuts, chips, fruit, coffee, etc). I also do like subway for a veggie sandwich, but that is it, otherwise I bring food with.

that being said, one could argue (like my boyfriend does) that I shouldn't purchase foods (or gas, etc) from gas stations that are south american owned or supplied, as they are completely corrupt, over priced, destroy the environment (rainforests), are affiliated with militia groups that condone torture and people/drug trafficking, etc. :confused:

So...you can't win, huh?

Anyway, I believe that healthy vegan options should be available at mainstream fast food resturaunts, maybe not so that vegans would buy them, but so that meat eaters would be more exposed to healthy, meat/dairy free foods. If vegans chose to also eat there, then that gives them a choice too. Really, I think all people should stop eating fast food, because it is generally unhealthy and I think people should cook more and spend more time eating at home as families.

Interesting topic!

[herbwormwood]

that being said, one could argue (like my boyfriend does) that I shouldn't purchase foods (or gas, etc) from gas stations that are south american owned or supplied, as they are completely corrupt, over priced, destroy the environment (rainforests), are affiliated with militia groups that condone torture and people/drug trafficking, etc. :confused:



This could be a whole new topic!!! There are a few south american states whose governments are self admittedly left wing and elected with huge popular support but not all are as corrupt as certain other american governments!!!
From what I have read it appears the US government sees the south american left wing states as a huge threat, possibly as they have not toed the line on some "free trade" globalisation issues such and it has even tried to assasinate some of their leaders. Given that the current top dog in the US is deep in family connections to the oil industry (fact) and paying the saudi regime in order to secure oil (fact), and has gone to war in the middle east over oil (many people's opinion) I think there would be a fair bit to debate. I seem to recall oil companies have featured somewhere else on VF?