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Re: I'm finding it really hard to exist knowing i'm surrounded by idiots
Thanks guys. Have you seen the film Powder? At one point in the film,the lead character who is telepathic finds a deer that's dying after being shot and he touches the deer and the hunter, and the hunter feels the pain of the dying deer. I really wish I could do that to omnis. Or transfer what I know in my head into theirs.
I do care what I eat in terms of health, but I don't see my health as more important than animals suffering. Every living being deserves to live a peaceful and pain free life.
I wouldn't say I'm a particularly caring person, I do give to charity, care about poverty and try to eat Fairtrade etc. But to me, that's just the decent thing to do. I really can't understand how people are so selfish.
This whole argument of it being natural and we've always done it. This may be true, but there are lots of things I find about humanity that stinks. Why do people always assume that humanity gets everything right?
My parents aren't nice people anyways, so I'm probably wasting my breath trying to teach them.
I also made the mistake of starting to watch Northern Exposure as it's supposed to be a feel good show. But every other episode they go hunting, I feel I'm being brainwashed by some pro-hunting organisation or something. I can't get into it, or the whole 'feel good' message it supposedly has.
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Re: I'm finding it really hard to exist knowing i'm surrounded by idiots
Quote:
Andy_T
And few people like to argue for the fun of it and the sake of arguing (me thinks, you might actually feel somehow at home in that elusive group of persons, Mr. CS, judging from your forum contributions ;-)
Best regards,
Andy
I just have an enquiring mind Andy :smoochie:
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Re: I'm finding it really hard to exist knowing i'm surrounded by idiots
I'm sorry to hear misosoup, that your parents are being so unpleasant, but you're right, imo, it's probably only worth going so far with certain people. It's especially hard with relatives isn't it? At least they are not trying to "sneak" an omni attack on you and put meat in your food etc...
If they can't introduce you honestly, you can choose to do so yourself maybe? Like, "I choose not to eat animal products" (saying "choose empowers you), and then if you think they are defensive or they are being judgemental, you could say "I'll be happy to tell you more about it if you REALLY want to know, but not at dinner time", otherwise let's just get on with the day/evening/whatever you are doing. That's the way I do it, and people usually either ask sincerely, as they know I'm not on the attack and feel open, or the ones that are too scared/don't care, realise they will get the truth if they ask - so they just don't.
Talking of sneaking offensive food choices on people, I like to make a joke sometimes, and say "Don't worry, I won't do a vegan-sneak-attack, and make you eat peas (or whatever vegetable they usually eat) or even worse - potatos/pasta/rice/etc." They usually laugh when they realise they're eating vegan food already...
As for the show "Northern Exposure" I sort of know what you mean, I saw an ad on TV where KFC were using a "funny sketch" to show a girlfriend offering her boyfriend a tofu and mung bean surprise and him chomping into a spicy chicken leg instead... Oh how ever so funny - NOT.
I couldn't help thinking I felt almost attacked in my own home, and about the way the world at large puts out these stupid messages "meat is GOOD, milk is GOOD, dragging whatever futile use out of a dying animal for whatever pathetic reason is GOOOOD"... But then I thought about all the vegan shops, and festivals, and people, and forums like this, and Justin Timberlake's veganville skit last week, and how every time I see Alec Baldwin, or Michelle Pfieffer, or one of the Deschanel sisters, or Benjamin Zephaniah, or Common, or Erykh Badu, or any other vegan celebrity you'd like to mention, and most of all, a gentle sweet happy animal at a sanctuary, and I think we're going good, and we're not going anywhere...
:heart:
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Re: I'm finding it really hard to exist knowing i'm surrounded by idiots
Meat eaters who think they are victims and talk about how preachy vegans are just make me think wtf. We are surrounded by omni culture. I can't watch cooking shows, adverts, it all upsets me. I am bombarded with messages constantly. You don't realise it until you turn vegan how bad it is.
It also freaks me out when people say 'well 99% of the popultion agree with me'. Its a very scary and isolating feeling. And I point out that years ago that was the case with feminism, racism, most 'isms' started with a tiny minority. It's never OK to pull the 'majority rules' argument.
It does mess with my head. Like how are people so blind to so much suffering? It's like we've reached the underbelly of humanity or something and found this deep dark secret.
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Re: I'm finding it really hard to exist knowing i'm surrounded by idiots
To play devil's advocate quite randomly here, I'd like to point out first of all that I completely agree. ^^Especially with your comment there, misosoup.
However, I think common reasoning from omni's and people who don't recycle, or buy local, or buy products that test on animals, etc. (Lots of things people do on a daily basis) is 1) Ignorance. and 2) Apathy. They might know, but they don't care, because everyone else is doing it and they feel powerless to stop it, so they just keep going with the flow of the other sheeple.
I don't understand how my mother doesn't watch the news. She literally doesn't hear about stuff going on in the world unless it comes up in a conversation with another person. Like, how can you keep yourself so sheltered? She says to me, "well it's upsetting, and if there is going to be ANYthing on there about ANY animals or dogs being abused, I have to just leave the room. I can't even watch it."
She eats meat.
Not a lot of meat, but she eats meat and dairy. Lots of people don't make the connection. Or they do, but because mainstream media has spent all this time and money making veg people look like nutrient deficient weirdos, changing just doesn't seem possible.
Free thinkers are rare. It's just a fact. I believe you have to be at least somewhat of a free thinker to go against the grain, go vegan and take responsibility for your actions and impact on this planet.
Hopefully I articulated myself ok.. :o
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Re: I'm finding it really hard to exist knowing i'm surrounded by idiots
Yeah, Astrid I don't get it.
I find anything about animals just as upsetting as the next person, difference is I care enough to do something about it.
It's like with child abuse, people turn a blind eye. We're having this ongoing case in the UK right now where a prominent tv star, who is now dead, is one of the worst peadophiles we have had, and has abused hundreds of kids. So many people knew, even the police. It's like people cannot just 'go there' with it. Yes it's horiffic, but the innocents suffer. It's cowardly. Just think of those people who have to watch child abuse images to catch predators, must mess with their head, but they have to do it.
I've always been open to the worst of humanity, I cant stand people with 'Pollyanna syndrome'.
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Re: I'm finding it really hard to exist knowing i'm surrounded by idiots
Polyanna syndrome.. had to google that one :-)
Well, terrible things happen so often, I guess people like my mother and similar people think it's just as simple as turning off the television to avoid thinking about it; perhaps that is the only way they know to cope with knowing bad things are constantly occuring... It's the only way they can live life, in ignorance and denial.
Besides, are we, as conscientious people, any better off being so acutely aware of all suffering? Personally I have struggled with the idea often; ignorance being bliss and what not. I've had to make a personal decision at some point to stop taking on the weight of the world. I have wrestled with depression for ten years now (I'm 24), feeling hopeless about humanity. I am not depressed anymore. I am a mostly happy person. .. Because even though I know that these terrible things are going on in the world, there is always hope for mass change.. Also, I can't be sad knowing I'm doing what I KNOW is right. I feel on track now, mentally and spiritually. I use my positive light and attitude as a guide to those who haven't found this lifestyle. I think it's important to be a happy, energetic, fun vegan, not a preachy gloomy vegan. It's so hard to not preach though!! People can be so freaking dumb about their eating and health and not even SEE the blatant connection between the two!
Do I still cry about stupid people sometimes? Of course. I've had my fair share of wine ridden, sarah mclachlan, tear driven nights.
But I don't let it get me down constantly. And believe me , I serve deep fried meat and noodles to people all night long at a chinese foods restaurant. I'm the epitome of "surrounded by idiots"
I literally have people say, "Oh can I have my order with No MSG?" and trying to be helpful, I say, "Can I do that for the whole bill?"
Other person - "No. I WANT MSG. Otherwise it doesn't taste as good.:rollseyes_ani:
In summary, I think we all have to see that it's more important to inform others and definitely important to keep asking these questions to ourselves about how best to bring about change in the world. It's never easy swimming upstream.
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Quote:
misosoup
I've always been open to the worst of humanity, I cant stand people with 'Pollyanna syndrome'.
I had no idea what you were talking about, so I got this answer from reference.com:
Quote:
' The name "Polyanna Syndrome" comes from a movie Disney Studios made in 1960 starring Haley Mills. The girl, Pollyanna, was optimistic in spite of any situation she faced, and as a result, brought love and light into the lives of those she touched. A person with a "Pollyanna" personality is excessively optimistic in spite of everything around them giving no reason for hope. The negative thoughts*and heavy burdens most people feel at times in their everyday life never touches the heart and mind of a person with "Pollyanna Syndrome" because they do not have it in their nature. They see a silver lining in every cloud and a pony burried under every pile of manure. Being around a perpetually positive person can cause frustration, as we know reality is not as kind as the Pollyanna sees it. Yet!! Even a raw deal will have some saving grace in the mind of our ever-positive, always cheerful friend.'
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Re: I'm finding it really hard to exist knowing i'm surrounded by idiots
I don't think it is "Polyanna syndrome", understanding that is about persons who find everything great and see a sliver lining.
I guess it is simple suppression (blanking out things that make you unhappy) - which I understand is actually a survival mechanism as it allows our brain to cope with the danger/problem/whatever that is at hand and avoid getting swamped with the realization of all the other things that are terrible (but most likely not acute at the current moment).
Best regards,
Andy
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Re: I'm finding it really hard to exist knowing i'm surrounded by idiots
Yeah, I think pollyanna syndrome is meant to refer to those who are so optimistic they are blind to any realistic understanding of the world, which can render them less useful because they won't face things that need changing... BUT! Being optimistic and realistically aware at the same time is possible... It's getting the balance between facing the badness in the world, and most importantly, acting on that, yet not allowing yourself to be so swamped that you end up hurting yourself (whether deliberately or unwittingly - physically or emotionally)... A depressed vegan isn't as useful (as one who has some degree of the ability to put a positive spin on things (as long as it's not to the exemption of facing truths that can lead to change).
Edit: That's not meant to be a criticism of any depressed person - I have dealt with it on and off since my teens (so 20 years now), but it can be crippling and painful and we can't help the animals as much when we're suffering very badly, never mind the pain we are in ourselves. It's good to deal with reality, but important to balance it with hope.
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Re: I'm finding it really hard to exist knowing i'm surrounded by idiots
Quote:
Astrid660
Besides, are we, as conscientious people, any better off being so acutely aware of all suffering?
Definitely, yes. Awareness is mindfullness and the alternative is mindlessness.
To accutely feel the suffering is good also. It is that which provides the motivation to act.
Allowing suffering to overwhelm us is a completely different thing though. It is almost definitely that (being overwelmed by our own suffering or the suffering of others or both) that results in depression.
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Re: I'm finding it really hard to exist knowing i'm surrounded by idiots
Yeah, you're right Peabrain. When I turned vegan I felt really depressed and overwhelmed. But I practice Mindfulness which helped a lot, I became Mindful of the things I could change. I've been told over and over that being vegan is pointless because it won't change anything. But I don't want to give any of my money to support suffering, that's how I view it.
If everyone thought like that, nothing would change. It's about building positive experiences, putting a penny in the positive jar. Just the fact vegans exist is challenging, and it offers an alternative.
In Mindfulness they teach that avoiding suffering prolongs it, which is so true, but it also teaches you coping mechanisms and how to keep things at a distance.
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Re: I'm finding it really hard to exist knowing i'm surrounded by idiots
Yes putting the penny in the jar... I went into Lush yesterday, and was informed that they are slowly phasing out as much of the vegetarian products and changing them to vegan ones as possible (currently they're working on the items that have lanolin in them in particular and testing out soy instead), it's so nice to see how at first the had some options that were vegan (only a few, and they were specially named vegan items), then more and more, then they started labelling them with the Vegan Society logo, and now they're the vast majority of items... I'd say that MUST be at least partly down to the purchasing of the vegan items (methinks the management must be comprised of quite a few vegans too - as they are teaching their employees what these ingredients are and why they're not acceptable to vegans). :-)
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Re: I'm finding it really hard to exist knowing i'm surrounded by idiots
^We have that store in a mall in a bigger city here in Northern BC. I can't wait to shop there next month when I go!
Also, speaking of more vegan products, I was happy when, the other day, I went shopping at safeway for like the first time since going Vegan. I prefer Save-on because they have much more organic and veg friendly products.. But safeway now had tempeh and a few other items that weren't there last year. That made me smile, knowing that there is more demand for those types of things !
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Re: I'm finding it really hard to exist knowing i'm surrounded by idiots
Yeah, that's really good. It does make a difference. Vegetarian/ vegan items are more prominent these days. I can remember when I turned veggie 20 years ago the only things available were dry lentil burgers lol.
I just get overwhelmed sometimes, I'm new to this vegan thing. This is why I love Mindfulness because it helps keep a healthy distance from things, because if we let things get on top of us then we are no use to the causes we support.
Actually on another note, as an adoptee, today was a really big day for me and my fellow adoptees. Australia issues a formal apology for forced adoptions and say what happened was illegal, and I never in my lifetime thought I would see someone acknowledge it. It also happened in the UK, although I doubt we'll ever get an apology. But it has made me realise that campaigning can make a difference. And so I am feeling more positive today. It will at least raise awareness here and that's a step in the right direction.
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Re: I'm finding it really hard to exist knowing i'm surrounded by idiots
Yep! We're getting more mainstream. We are! Thus, our message will too (obviously there are those who are just vegan for the health/diet issues, but they're not the majority). :heart:
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Re: I'm finding it really hard to exist knowing i'm surrounded by idiots
But people who have a vegan diet for health reasons may catch onto the reasons people are vegan for ethical reasons. And they do help with the 'veganism is unhealthy' argument. I mean, Mike Tyson is vegan! And I think Usher recently turned vegan also.
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Re: I'm finding it really hard to exist knowing i'm surrounded by idiots
PS... Miso that's great news, I know it must be especially empowering for you to have that validation (albeit not directly).... and yes, it does show the power of campaigning (whether that be petitioning, rallying, leafleting, or just voting with your feet and your money against big businesses' exploitation of animals).
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Quote:
misosoup
And they do help with the 'veganism is unhealthy' argument
Good point! :P
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Re: I'm finding it really hard to exist knowing i'm surrounded by idiots
There is a lot of similarities I've found with people's reaction to the meat industry and adoption industry. They are shocked when they realise the truth about adoption. And I wonder 'Did they think that the women just happily gave up their babies and then the adoptees were fine with this and their new identities?' Like with meat, people have been brainwashed. But when they think about it really hard, they tend to be quite horrified at the reality of what goes on. Or they get defensive and agressive- like some meat eaters do. People don't want to know that such an institution like adoption can be that messed up.
Also like with meat, when you apply terms like 'adoption' to something it takes away the true reality of what it is. Like meat has nice fancy names to cover up what it really is. Dead animals.
So yeah, it was very validating. It's amazing how much power 'sorry' has. And I hope it helps my birth mother who is still traumatised, well we both are.
And this is something I really never ever thought I would see. Even if it is in Australia it still applies to here, because it was the same policy Social Services were working with.
So yeah, it has been an important day. And has given me hope for veganism too. I think also, if people get angry it means a nerve has been hit. I am used to experiencing this with adoption reform, people can be really nasty. But if you perservere people will listen.
If I ever feel down about veganism, I just look at vegan bodybuilding websites lol. They really inspire me. Not that I would ever get into that, but it's cool to see that you can be vegan and be built like a brick****house haha
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Re: I'm finding it really hard to exist knowing i'm surrounded by idiots
Yep. I love the vegan bodybuilders! :-)
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Re: I'm finding it really hard to exist knowing i'm surrounded by idiots
We're the lucky ones. We worked it out. Had so much stick for going vegan, I think people are aggressive towards us because deep down we're all humane creatures. And deep down they know it's wrong.
I do still feel guilty for my past.
:heart:
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Re: I'm finding it really hard to exist knowing i'm surrounded by idiots
I understand what you mean 100%! I feel so guilty that I waited so long to become vegan. I hate being the weirdo at family gatherings. But I know what's right and what's wrong now and I will not go back. I will keep educating others, attending animal rights protests, writing letters to newspapers, whatever it takes to make the world a better place than how I found it. Keep fighting and keep your head up. We are the leaders, never forget that.
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Quote:
lbaker40
I will keep educating others, attending animal rights protests, writing letters to newspapers, whatever it takes to make the world a better place than how I found it. Keep fighting and keep your head up. We are the leaders, never forget that.
*thumbs-up!*