-
Re: vegan?
Thanks very much people. For the link... sorry I started a new thread without finding the already existing one first! I'm going to use up the stuff that I have. About the jacket, I'm undecided. I do not feel good wearing it. We'll see. I'm going to do what feels right, I just don't know what is right yet!
-
Re: vegan?
you could always give the jacket a decent burial, more than the rest of the animal would have gotten.
I don't think you can be vegan for a long time before the idea of wearing something like that would become unappealing to you. You've got to take into consideration that veganism is not a diet, it's a lifestyle; and how strictly you adhere to that lifestyle is something you can only set for yourself. I was ok with wearing my leather work boots until I had enough money to buy the extra special vegan ones, that I had custom made (and cost me one arm, both legs and a nugget).
-
Re: vegan?
Ouch! That nugget must have hurt.
-
Re: vegan?
I know a friend who got $10,000 for his nugget. Honest. For research I believe. :D
-
Re: vegan?
-
Re: vegan?
-
Re: Using old/second hand products (leather, wool etc)
I bought some nice smart vegan shoes the other day so I don't need my leather ones anymore. They're completely worn out and have been giving me blisters for ages. Next week I'm going to leave them out for the nice recycling people to take them away. No one can wear them in their present state so perhaps they'll be broken down and reassembled into something else. I know it's leather, but it might as well be put to some further use. It's better than sending it to a landfill site.
-
Re: vegan?
Quote:
cherry
I think that it's far better environmentally to wear them out and then replace them with synthetic boots/shoes. I am a little concerned about the impression that it gives others.
I feel exactly the same. I do not have so many "nasties" as I am allergic to wool and always have avoided leather, but as long as you don`t feel really, really bad about wearing these things I feel you have to think economically, too. I have got one leather jacket with sentimental value and two or three pairs of leather shoes which I will wear as long as they do the job, but in the future, I will take greater care in what to buy.
littleTigercub
-
Re: Using old/second hand products (leather, wool etc)
I didn't read the whole thread, but I have this same problem. I bought a new car in Sept that has leather seats, and I bought a new couch a year ago that is leather. I would never buy these items again, but I figure the poor cow already died and suffered for my stupidity so I should at least make use of them. We did go through the house, cabinets, fridge, etc.. and we donated all of the the non vergan stuff for the most part. Anyway, that's just what I did. Not sure if it's the right thing, but I think I'm ok with it.
-
Re: Using old/second hand products (leather, wool etc)
When I turned vegan I sold my leather boots on ebay (I hadn't worn them for years anyway) so I could get some money back on them and I used up or gave away anything else which contained beeswax etc. The only non-vegan item of clothing I have is a wooly cardigan (2nd hand, I think my Gran gave me it) but I rarely wear it. The only reason it's still there is that I'd feel bad binning it and no-one else wants it and it's got dried paint on it so I can't sell it. I keep it for 'emergencies' as we have no central heating yet and it gets unbelievably cold at times. :(
If anyone knows where I could get a nice vegan 'wooly' thing to keep me warm then please let me know :)
-
Re: Using old/second hand products (leather, wool etc)
By the way, what is that 'ecological leather' all about? I don't get it. :confused: If the animal is killed for it's meat rather than just for it's skin, then couldn't you say that about most commercially produced leather? After all, the usual pro-leather argument is that it's just a by-product of the meat industry, surely there aren't many animals that are killed only for their hide and the rest left to waste?
Seems a bit of a false statement to me, not to mention the fact that leather is not a by-product anyway - it makes up about 10% of the total profit from the animal's corpse and helps to subsidise the meat industry. I just can't understand how any commercially produced leather could be classed as 'ecological', implying that it's cruelty free! :eek:
I personally don't wear any leather as it makes me uncomfortable, but I can understand other people's reasons for wearing 2nd hand stuff.
I've bought some vegan leather boots before which have out-lasted any leather ones I've had and I've also found cheap synthetics in ordinary shoe shops (although I don't know what the glues are made of :( ).
-
Re: Using old/second hand products (leather, wool etc)
personally, i agree with korn's sentiments on this thread post #7.
we probably do 'almost as must as is possible' and im ok with that.
what i dont like is seeing lots of 'confessions' by folk to see these followed with 'how you could do it better'. of course there is often a better way but we only can walk in our own shoes no one elses and it saddens me that people feel awkward about saying they still own this or that, or use this or that. thats fine! :) its where you are now! im sure, in fact i know there are still lots of bits and bobs around that i need to deal with/replace/address but what matters to me is not the timescale or even items, what matters to me is my INTEGRITY with dealing with these issues. i may replace these boots when they wear out but someone else may choose to sell/throw them now and invest in a vegan pair - both are correct - the paths to the end are just different.
when i can, i do and untill then i have my own integrity and conscience to deal with, and that is enough. we shouldnt be made to feel wrong, stupid, un-vegan or uncaring if we are sincerely doing our best with our own situation.
lets encourage not discourage :D
-
Re: Using old/second hand products (leather, wool etc)
-
Re: Using old/second hand products (leather, wool etc)
I still own and wear 3 wool items. A hat, a jumper and cardigan, and thats because my auntie knitted them all for me.
She passed away and i dont like the idea of them being thrown away or going to someone else who wont value them as much. The hat ive actually had since i was a baby, its stretched a lot over the years... :rolleyes:
-
Re: Using old/second hand products (leather, wool etc)
I won't buy wool, silk or leather and avoided even wearing my old leather shoes for a while but I've had trouble with the vegan pairs I've bought. At the moment I'm wearing 2nd hand shoes c/o my mum! :D
-
Re: Using old/second hand products (leather, wool etc)
Quote:
Evilfluffbunny
By the way, what is that 'ecological leather' all about? I don't get it. :confused:
I know lots of environmental activists who prefer leather rather than microfibre materials as in their opinion they are more harmful to the environment. I found this to be a bit bizzare since cattle farming does massive damage to the environment.
Quote:
"It takes more than 100 000 litres of water to produce 1 kilogram of beef, and requires 8 times the fossil fuel sourced energy than plant crops need. Farmed animals produce 130 times more fecal waste than humans, which is generally unrecycled and dumped into waterways, causing ammonia, nitrates, phosphates and bacteria levels to increase; and add to global warming by the release of up to 80 million tons of methane into the atmosphere every year."
Paraphrased from Introduction to Animal Rights, Gary Francione, p15-16.
I've had friendly arguments with these environmental activists over the use of skins from roadkill or other natural deaths. Personally, I think it isn't so bad... but as a vegan:
Recycled, second hand, roadkill; still an animal skin.
I actually began seeking leather alternatives long before I stopped consuming dairy and cattle byproducts such as gelatine. I have one guitar strap with leather ends attaching the canvas strap to the guitar, but vegan wares sell vegan guitar straps, so it's going to be replaced sooner rather than later!
-
Re: Using old/second hand products (leather, wool etc)
Quote:
adam antichrist
I actually began seeking leather alternatives long before I stopped consuming dairy
Me too!
-
Re: Using old/second hand leather or wool
Just for those who suggested burning/burying leather goods and the person who suggested that leather is more organic and eco-friendly than synthetic vegan fibres, it's fallacious on both counts.
Leather undergoes many chemical processes in "tanneries" and is as such riddled with toxins. Luckily for the factories who do this task they often situate next to rivers so they can dump the chemical runoff straight into water supply, facing at most some occasional fines.
So no burying in soil would poison land and burning would poison atmosphere. There really is no good way of disposing of these items but suffice to say once you have you will never do it again, a one time liberation.
I'd personally lean towards selling the items for as much as possible and reinvesting in vegan product/animal rights charities to neutralise the act.
-
Re: Using old/second hand products (leather, wool etc)
i think it's hard when one is first starting out being vegan, there's so much fear of doing things "the wrong way". i remember when i went vegan, there was so much to keep track of at once. (i went from omni to vegan overnight.) i do still have a few things left from my previous lifestyle but they are only still around 'cause i never wear them. luckily i had no fur or leather coats but i had a lot of wool (i used to live in new hampshire!). btw, if anyone wants vegan warm weather wear suggestions, PM me and i'll tell you my tricks.
re the leather shoes... some of the imitations are SO good that i've looked at friends and gone "no way" and vice versa. i've had to take off my shoes to prove it a few times :rolleyes: but if i did have some leather shoes that had survived all this time, i WOULD wear them 'cause unless the shoes have a big nike sign or something, you really can't tell. btw, it feels so good when someone says "i love your shoes" and you get to say that they're cruelty free. same thing with toiletries. why be wasteful? my solution was to overlap so that if something new didn't work, i still had some of the old stuff leftover.
now, the nonveg food, on the other hand... that stuff had to go!
-
questions for my vegan friends
Hello
Would you still say someone is a vegan if they have been vegan for years and since going vegan not brought any animal products or anything but still have a leather sofa? My view is if someone has stayed clear of animal products for years but still have things that are leather but brought these before they went vegan then that person is still vegan because at the end of the day if you chuck out your sofa coat or what ever it’s not going to help the cows now is it? I don’t really see the point in getting rid of something when it’s not going to help anyone or anything now, But I guess it just comes down to individual choice. My self I don’t buy any animal products for years but still have some things that are leather,
not sofa that was just used as an example above. I still class my self as full vegan well as vegan as anyone can ever be and I think that’s 95% I don’t think anyone in today’s society can be 100% vegan but we can all do our part and together as a team we can make that difference to the lives of the animals. not only do I not buy animal products, but im also trying now to avoid all tested animal products and boycotting the companies who do. also getting more into protesting, done leafleting, and give stick to the company’s that cant label there stuff vegan. that’s one thing that really P me off say, you buy something from the supermarket that is vegan but its not labelled vegan that does get to me because if its vegan why cant the dam companies label it vegan. It saves my time, there time, saves a phone call, and saves all the other vegans out there messing around with a phone call. most of the ones I ring have always come back saying oh well we are very limited on space on the tin. i think that’s just there way of saying they don’t want to label it or they cant be ass two. why cant people see that going vegan is not just about the animals but a lot more about your health as well. after you stop eating all that muck its no doubt your going to feel better eating all that muck and them drugged up birds along with the hormones they are pumped with cant be no good for anyone. no doubt your going to feel loads better, wonder why I feel 100 times better since making that change.
Thanks
-
Re: questions for my vegan friends
Hi, Jo1234.
I don't claim to speak for anyone else, but I for one WOULD consider someone who in pre-vegan days purchased something non-vegan, as still a vegan now, even if they haven't gotten rid of said item, but don't contribute any more to the meat and by-products industry. I think it's all about trying, and being realistic. Personally, I have always hated leather sofas - they get hot and sweaty in the summer and you have to peel yourself off them. Plus I can just SMELL them!
I know what you mean about the unnecessary lack of labelling - it seems so pointless, and I really don't know why more companies don't do it wherever they can. Maybe they can't make a commitment to keeping that item vegan, maybe it's made on a production line where there may be cross-contamination. Maybe they think it will put off the rest of the consumers who see the vegan label and think 'eurgh, this is bound to be tasteless and bleurgh'. I don't know. Keep hassling them, I reckon!
Keep up the good work.
-
Re: questions for my vegan friends
Hello, Jo, and welcome.
It doesn't matter if you still have leather things. As you say, the animals aren't suffering now. I still have a few leather things. I've had them for many years.
Regards,
Martin.
-
Re: questions for my vegan friends
Like others said.. if you already have leathers in your house-hold it is fine. There is nothing much you can do about it. You are a vegan if you don' buy leather stuff from now on. No worries.
-
Re: questions for my vegan friends
I've only just managed to get back on here. I lost the connection at about 6 o'clock - more than four hours ago. I don't think I was the only one because, until just a minute ago, there had been no posts since before that time.
-
Re: questions for my vegan friends
Quote:
Gliondrach
I've only just managed to get back on here. I lost the connection at about 6 o'clock - more than four hours ago. I don't think I was the only one because, until just a minute ago, there had been no posts since before that time.
Your not alone :cool:
Joe, when i became vegan i had a few pairs of leather shoes and just bought non vegan ones when they became worn.
-
Re: questions for my vegan friends
The forum is normally put offline when back-up, archiving and maintenance takes place. And it could be a long process.
-
Re: questions for my vegan friends
This is one of those gray areas in which it is not exactly correct from a vegan viewpoint to say keeping old leather items is 100% fine and good, or 100% bad and unveganly. If someone is out leafletting and trying to gain converts while wearing their old leather jacket because it hasn't worn out yet they will look like a hyprocrite to people who are unfamiliar with veganism. People who were wearing leather clothing while throwing red paint on people who wore fur did not make a very good impression on outsiders. A person shouldn't feel bad about major purchases made before they were vegan, but they shouldn't be content with keeping them because they purchased them before they went vegan.
My dad has a leather sofa, and if there is someone sitting in the only cloth covered chair in his living room, I will sit on the floor. But that is me. I gave up using leather before I gave up eating eggs and cheese.
-
Re: questions for my vegan friends
i am going through the same problems. i just turned vegan and have avoided leather shoes, but the weather is going to get cold soon and my flip flops aren't going to cut it. i have read on this forum that converse was bought out by nike. can't really wear those in good conscious. i hate being poor.:( i am so torn by what to do. i got a good pair of walking shoes for christmas last year, maybe i should just donate them. but what will i wear? this christmas my family will get a very detailed list.
i haven't worn leather since going vegan, wouldn't feel right doing it, but i feel it is a personal choice.
-
Re: questions for my vegan friends
Jo, I would say the same as mostly everyone else here. I would consider someone a vegan if they are living a vegan lifestyle to the best of their ability, but they own a leather item purchased in their pre-vegan days.
-
Re: questions for my vegan friends
well, everyone here is right, i think...however, and i don't think i've ever admitted this here, but i don't actually tell people that i am vegan simply because i do have leather seats in my car and we do have leather furniture in the house---these are things that my husband picked out/bought before we were married, but since i drive the car and sit on the couch, i feel a little hyprocritical calling myself vegan...which of course is just the choice that i am comfortable with. i just tell people that i don't eat meat, eggs or dairy and that i don't believe in using or abusing animals (including humans) :o
-
Re: questions for my vegan friends
Quote:
Michelle
well, everyone here is right, i think...however, and i don't think i've ever admitted this here, but i don't actually tell people that i am vegan simply because i do have leather seats in my car and we do have leather furniture in the house---these are things that my husband picked out/bought before we were married, but since i drive the car and sit on the couch, i feel a little hyprocritical calling myself vegan...which of course is just the choice that i am comfortable with. i just tell people that i don't eat meat, eggs or dairy and that i don't believe in using or abusing animals (including humans) :o
i understand what you mean about not labeling yourself. i still have cleaning products, lotion and shampoo i need to use up before i can say i am 100%, but when you tell someone you are vegan they only question the food aspects, which can lead to a good conversation. if i had money i would just donate everything questionable, for now i just threw away 3 lip balms in my purse because they contain lanolin. my lips are getting chapped just typing this. need some vegan lip balm!
-
Re: questions for my vegan friends
Quote:
mophoto
my lips are getting chapped just typing this. need some vegan lip balm!
you need this my vegan friend! just look at the flavours they have to choose from!! :eek:
-
Re: questions for my vegan friends
My, how your looks have changed! :)
-
Re: questions for my vegan friends
Bring back captain Kirk
"Spock, I want an investigaton and a report"
-
Re: questions for my vegan friends
Quote:
puffin
Your not alone :cool:
Joe, when i became vegan i had a few pairs of leather shoes and just bought non vegan ones when they became worn.
I think that you may have become a bit confused there, Vainposter Slayer. You now buy non vegan shoes?
-
Re: questions for my vegan friends
I wouldn't call someone vegan who found a leg of lamb at the bottom of their freezer 10 years later and had it for sunday lunch because it needs using up as opposed to giving it to a meat eating friend. However when it comes to things such as leather it isn't always practical to donate everything to charity and buy new things. Thankfully I didn't own a home when I turned vegan so I didn't have much, and since I've furnished a flat with my priniciples in mind from the start. I do still have a pair of trainers I got about 8 years ago (made by Nike of all people!) with some leather on for using when I go to the gym which are still in good condition (no comment!). It feels odd putting them on when I do, but I'd be a hypocrit for buying them in the first place if I were to just throw them away (they arn't new enough really to donate anywhere). I can just about bare people around me using animal products but wasting them (like when we go for a curry and my counterparts order about twice as much as they could ever physically eat) just shows a complete and utter lack of understanding or respect. So no, I don't think still owning a leather sofa still makes you less vegan.
I can personally recommend, for the sake of well being, to donate it to charity (such as Oxfam in the UK who have second hand furniture stores) and replace it if you have the money. I get a lot of satisfaction out of having my own personal completely (touch wood, i've probably made a few mistakes and I'm not sure about one of the rooms in this rented place that has a carpet, the rest of floors are wooden) vegan space, knowing there's nothing dead or remains of anything dead lurking around the place. Of course it completely depends on your financial situation, personally it's something i'd happily spend a few months saving for.
-
Re: questions for my vegan friends
One of the most unique and wonderful things about being Vegan is the all the efforts we go to stay crulty free. As it has been said many times, it is almost impossible to become 100% crulty free, because in the long run with the history of products, some where there is probably something not vegan. No matter how many times you see the words. "All Manmade Materials". you always wonder. I for one will continue the quest and revel in all efforts to maintain as much freedom as possible, while doing what part I can to try and convince the rest of the world to change it's evil ways before it's too late.
__________________________________________________ ____________
If people like you don't care alot, nothing is ever going to get better, it's not.
"The Lorax" - Dr. Suess
-
Re: questions for my vegan friends
Funny, if I have a leather couch, but order vegan when I'm out - it would be weird if they said I wasn't because then they would try to feed me cheese, chicken or fish - Yuck!!
-
Re: questions for my vegan friends
Quote:
gypsyveg
Funny, if I have a leather couch, but order vegan when I'm out - it would be weird if they said I wasn't because then they would try to feed me cheese, chicken or fish - Yuck!!
The first thing you should say, upon entering a restaurant, is: 'I don't have leather furniture, you know?' Just in case they are wondering.
-
Re: Using old/second hand leather or wool
It is quite confusing to a new-vegan what is and isn't vegan, I mean at what point you are a vegan as opposed to 'trying to be a vegan' I suppose in a way it's like a religion in that no-one is 100% but you do the best you can according to your circumstances. I personally will probably say I tried to live a vegan life-style as opposed to saying I am a vegan because there will always be that 'old jumper I thought was acrylic' or an 'additive in something not listed in the ingredients' strange because I always call myself a vegatarian even when I didn't know about gelatine or animal rennet in some foods until I'd been eating them a long time. I felt bad but still felt I was a vegetarian.