i hear you.i am writing a thesis about it on request from my father-and because of this i have become obviousluy intruiged by what really happened.
i hear you.i am writing a thesis about it on request from my father-and because of this i have become obviousluy intruiged by what really happened.
Knowing Eve, I am sure she was being sarcastic (in a good way :) ).Quote:
Mr Flibble
I have noticed over the years, Dianecrna, that irony is totally unrecognised on this forum. So sorry, Mr Flibble, of course it's not a benefit, but the quotation about the damage to Brazil's beef industry being a boon to Australia's, is not by me but was on the abc on-line. I merely added the comment about the silver lining - that was irony!
I ironied my shirt this morning does that count
go to bed, it's getting late for you antony :D
It's contact with birds that is spreading the H5N1 strain so without human/ave association it would cease to be transmitted and also reduce the potential that the virus may mutate. Also are ducks always migratory, or only in the Northern hemisphere?Quote:
Phil
We get a range of migratory birds that come to breed in the Coorong National Park (Murray River mouth) and they come from Japan and other areas of Asia.
Since there is no water flowing out the Murray mouth, the salt levels are now three times sea water and only brine shrimp are thriving. They have eanded their dormant season now and there are no fish, no plants and no insects in the water for the migratory birds. I can only suspect that they will start to distribute to other wetlands that they don't often visit, bringing them into contact with poultry farms and other bird populations etc...
On the comment about eradicating the risk of bird flu - bird flu has always been there, it's just that this strain is particularly dangerous in human to bird contact - as Adam says. If there were not concentrations of 60,000 birds to a shed, there would not be the same concentrated mass of hosts for the virus to infect.
Large concentrated host populations means huge numbers of virus particles and that means that there will be a variety through genetic error within the viral population.
Take away the breeding grounds and you have majorly reduced the risk factors.
Let the people eat soy!
Hi Phil! Can you post links to how the colloidal silver works?Quote:
Phil
I have heard that olive leaves have remarkable properties - there is some very expensive extracts in the local health food shop. Does it compare to neem oil?
Also not every species will host every virus, no evidence as yet those migrating to southern parts will be infected. However, populations in the tropics will be subject to the highest probabilities of infection as they move to and from PNG, Indonesia etc.Quote:
veganblue
Irony!! That's the word I was searching for, Eve. I should have gone to bed also as my vocabulary fails me after the sun goes down.........
By the way, I get your irony and I like it! :D
ah, I believe everything I read online you see :)
I guess it could be a good thing for animal rights, dependant on whether au's standards for farming are better than those of brazil.
If we'd stopped farming chickens we probably wouldn't have this issue of bird flu, especially not on this level. This virus has in all likelihood mutated from chickens in Western style factory farms in the East, perhaps where antibiotics are used less. It is important to stop chicken farming so new more potent strains are less likely to evolve.
On the plus side? Looks like live bird imports may be halted to Europe. Perhaps we'll come to realise it's completely unnecessary.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/birdflu/st...599635,00.html
Plus none other than vivisector in chief Colin Blakemore led the visit of 'experts' to a conference on bird flu, now there is a guy that knows a lot about non human biology.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4348768.stm
Not forgetting that even if antibiotics were used, they have no effect on viruses.Quote:
Kevster
Rightly said, still may impact upon the immune system.Quote:
veganblue
I read somewhere that poultry were not to be included (by the British Government anyway) in the import ban as they don't consider them to be 'live birds' :mad: :mad: Has anyone heard anymore about this???Quote:
Kevster
If the migratory birds have all got bird flu they are doing pretty well to keep on flying everywhere and not dropping dead in the oceans. How will they reach Australia if they are sick and coming from russia? ;)
Some species may carry a pathogen without it ever affecting them, however they pass it on to other species (as we have seen this virus is not species specific) and it may have minor or major impact on those it infects. Most of the birds killed by humans because they are infected may have survived the infection, but the fear/risk of it spreading drives the slaughter.Quote:
Panda
In short, while some species such as some ducks are obviously killed by this virus, perhaps not every species will be.
Imorted pigeons have been found in Melbourne that have bird flu antibodies - this means that somewhere along the line they have been exposed to bird flu.Quote:
Panda
Adam hit the nail on the head; if the animal has a strong immune system, it can go asymptomatic and still have a low level of the virus. If the virus changes slightly due to random mutation and is transferred through a population, it is entirely possible that a more virulent strain could arise. However it is more likely that a *less* virulent strain will arise as only selection pressures will force it in the direction of becoming 'stronger'. Survival of the 'fittest' applies to viruses too.
Of note - if you like star anise, buy it up now as there will be a world shortage soon as a compound in it is being used to manufacture huge volumes of the H5N1 anti-viral drug.
^^^wtf???
:confused:
'Mass poultry cull in north China
China has been hit by four bird flu outbreaks in three weeks
Armed police have been brought in to guard a mass cull of poultry in north-east China after a new outbreak of the deadly H5N1 strain of bird flu.
Some 370,000 birds are to be killed in the province of Liaoning, close to the North Korean border after the virus killed nearly 9,000 chickens.'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/4411446.stm
UK Lifts Ban on Older Cattle Entering Food Chain
http://www.planetark.com/avantgo/dai...m?newsid=33360
LONDON - Britain's farm ministry on Monday lifted a ban on some older cattle entering the food chain, removing a key measure used to combat deadly mad cow disease.
The move, which had been expected, provided a boost for Britain's beef industry which was devastated in 1995 by the outbreak of mad cow in the nation's herds.
More than 140 people in Britain are thought to have died from variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (vCJD), the human form of bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE).
The farm ministry said the Over Thirty Month (OTM) rule had been replaced with a "robust testing regime" and cattle born before August 1996 would continue to be excluded.
"The replacement of the OTM rule marks a significant step in the year-on-year decline of the BSE epidemic to record low levels," farming minister Lord Bach said in a statement.
Some producers have, however, expressed concerns there could be a flood of older cattle hitting the market now the ban has been lifted, further depressing weak domestic beef prices.
Story Date: 8/11/2005
--------------------------------------
Disclaimer: The member does not necessarily endorse content of articles or links provided. ;)
As Billions of Birds are Burned Alive: Rumsfeld's growing stake in Tamiflu
Rumsfeld's growing stake in Tamiflu (the Company producing flu vaccines)
Defense Secretary, ex-chairman of flu treatment rights holder, sees
portfolio value growing.
October 31, 2005: 10:55 AM EST
By Nelson D. Schwartz, Fortune senior writer
NEW YORK (Fortune) - The prospect of a bird flu outbreak may be
panicking people around the globe, but it's proving to be very good
news for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and other politically
connected investors in Gilead Sciences, the California biotech company
that owns the rights to Tamiflu, the influenza remedy that's now the
most-sought after drug in the world.
Rumsfeld served as Gilead (Research)'s chairman from 1997 until he
joined the Bush administration in 2001, and he still holds a Gilead
stake valued at between $5 million and $25 million, according to
federal financial disclosures filed by Rumsfeld.
The forms don't reveal the exact number of shares Rumsfeld owns, but
in the past six months fears of a pandemic and the ensuing scramble
for Tamiflu have sent Gilead's stock from $35 to $47. That's made the
Pentagon chief, already one of the wealthiest members of the Bush
cabinet, at least $1 million richer.
Rumsfeld isn't the only political heavyweight benefiting from demand
for Tamiflu, which is manufactured and marketed by Swiss pharma giant
Roche. (Gilead receives a royalty from Roche equaling about 10% of
sales.) Former Secretary of State George Shultz, who is on Gilead's
board, has sold more than $7 million worth of Gilead since the
beginning of 2005.
Another board member is the wife of former California Gov. Pete Wilson.
"I don't know of any biotech company that's so politically
well-connected," says analyst Andrew McDonald of Think Equity Partners
in San Francisco.
What's more, the federal government is emerging as one of the world's
biggest customers for Tamiflu. In July, the Pentagon ordered $58
million worth of the treatment for U.S. troops around the world, and
Congress is considering a multi-billion dollar purchase. Roche expects
2005 sales for Tamiflu to be about $1 billion, compared with $258
million in 2004.
Rumsfeld recused himself from any decisions involving Gilead when he
left Gilead and became Secretary of Defense in early 2001. And late
last month, notes a senior Pentagon official, Rumsfeld went even
further and had the Pentagon's general counsel issue additional
instructions outlining what he could and could not be involved in if
there were an avian flu pandemic and the Pentagon had to respond.
As the flu issue heated up early this year, according to the Pentagon
official, Rumsfeld considered unloading his entire Gilead stake and
sought the advice of the Department of Justice, the SEC and the
federal Office of Government Ethics.
Those agencies didn't offer an opinion so Rumsfeld consulted a private
securities lawyer, who advised him that it was safer to hold on to the
stock and be quite public about his recusal rather than sell and run
the risk of being accused of trading on insider information, something
Rumsfeld doesn't believe he possesses. So he's keeping his shares for
the time being.
-------------------------
Disclaimer: Articles posted by this member are not necessarily endorsed by this member nor are contents of external links ;)
By the time the H5N1 alters to take on the qualities of person-to-person infection, the tamiflu won't be worth a dime to consumers (but plenty to shareholders). The federal govt is not only one of the world's biggest customers for Tamiflu, it's also the world's biggest customer for WMDs.
"Everyone - the Centers for Disease Control, the World Health Organization and the Food and Agriculture Organization of the U.N. - has said very plainly, you cannot get bird flu from eating cooked chicken. It's not possible," said Andrew Porter, spokesman for the group, the Center for Consumer Freedom.Quote:
PETA Uses Bird Flu to Promote Cause
CALEB JONES
November 09, 2005 6:14 PM EST
WASHINGTON - Vegetarian groups are trying to use Asian bird flu to drive a wedge between people and the meat on their dinner plates.
People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) staged a small demonstration on Wednesday outside Agriculture Department headquarters with banners telling people, "Bird Flu Kills: Go Vegetarian."
Three protesters wearing only underwear and flowers lay in cardboard coffins while people in chicken and turkey suits offered vegetarian starter-kit brochures to passers-by.
Vegetarian groups argue that meatless diets would help eliminate poultry farms where the disease spreads. The Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine is offering a similar vegetarian starter kit on its Web site.
At a counterprotest near PETA's, a food industry-backed group accused PETA of lying.
"Everyone - the Centers for Disease Control, the World Health Organization and the Food and Agriculture Organization of the U.N. - has said very plainly, you cannot get bird flu from eating cooked chicken. It's not possible," said Andrew Porter, spokesman for the group, the Center for Consumer Freedom.
In the event that the flu strain affecting Asian countries does reach the U.S., KFC, also known as Kentucky Fried Chicken, is preparing television commercials to assure people that chicken is safe to eat if bird flu breaks out in its markets.
National Chicken Council spokesman Richard Lobb said there is no reason for consumers to worry.
"Even if we did have an outbreak, which is unlikely, it's going to be very limited," Lobb said. "And the number of birds involved will be very small."
The U.S., which will produce 9.5 billion birds this year, prohibits imports of poultry from countries where there is bird flu.
The virulent H5N1 bird flu strain has killed at least 63 people in Southeast Asia since 2003.
Talk about totally missing the whole point. :rolleyes:
A new study released by scientists in Hong Kong suggests young people could be at greater risk of contracting and dying from the H5N1 strain of bird flu. The scientists say their findings, published in the medical journal Respiratory Research, help to explain why the H5N1 bird flu virus kills so many healthy young adults.
They say it causes a storm of immune system chemicals that overwhelm the patient.
The study suggests that if the strain does cause a pandemic, being young and healthy could actually work against people who become infected. This may mean patients with H5N1 infections would need drugs that depress the immune response in addition to antivirals, a different treatment than previously thought effective.
some bird flu related comic relief from the chaser news desk:
Bird flu scare may lead to chicken ban: KFC unaffected
Monday, 17 October 2005
Fast food giant KFC has reassured customers that even in the event of total contamination of the world’s chicken stocks by bird flu, its menu will remain safe. “Bird flu should be of no concern to anyone consuming KFC products” a spokesperson said. “Unless, of course, it can be spread to rabbits.”
But KFC believe they have the crisis well in hand. “We’ve come a long way since the Colonel first came up with those eleven secret herbs and spices,” its website said. “Since then we’ve added thirty four secret preservatives and fats - at least, secret to the health inspectors.”
The website advised customers who required further reassurance to simply dip their ‘chicken’ pieces in industrial-grade disinfectant before eating them. “Any of our four dipping sauces will be fine,” it said.
The news has come as a great relief to the community. “KFC customers shouldn’t have to worry about dying from the bird flu,” said one fast food enthusiast. “They should die the old-fashioned way - from heart attacks.”
The Department of Health has accepted KFC’s risk assessment, leaving unchanged its advisory that states that the only edible KFC product is its moist towelette.
I am just waiting for the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds to get involved........
What chickens don't count? What about other wild migrating birds?
Weird.
http://www.rspb.org.uk/policy/avianinfluenza/index.asp
Nice picture of a free roaming chook, but wait what's that got to do with anything? Bird Flu H5N1 probably originated in the factory farms of SE Asia.
Bird flu mutates as infections spread
Hanoi
November 14, 2005 - 3:42PM
Bird flu may have infected two more people in Vietnam, where scientists say it has mutated into a more dangerous form which could spread in mammals.
"There is much possibility that the disease spreading is due to improper quarantine of infected poultry and poultry products," Bui Quang Anh, head of the ministry's animal health department, said in an urgent message to provincial authorities.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/...816855436.html
Absurd?
'China to vaccinate 14bn poultry
China has vowed to vaccinate all of its estimated 14 billion poultry to contain the spread of bird flu.
In his announcement, Chief veterinary officer Jia Youling said all the fees would be covered by the government.'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/4439080.stm
The prospect of a bird flu outbreak may be panicking people around the globe, but it's proving to be very good news for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and other politically connected investors in Gilead Sciences, the California biotech company that owns the rights to Tamiflu, the influenza remedy that's now the most-sought after drug in the world.
Read here http://money.cnn.com/2005/10/31/news...tune_rumsfeld/
'US reviews risks of Tamiflu after 12 children die
By Jeremy Laurance, Health Editor
Published: 18 November 2005
The safety of Tamiflu, the anti-flu drug, has been questioned for the second time in a week following reports that it has been linked to the deaths of 12 children in Japan.'
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...icle327743.ece
Are you serious!!!:mad: I was just about to pass on the conspiracy theory that that particular drug company was building the panic so that they could sell their drug. I actually thought that was quite possible - now i'm sure. Rax :mad: :mad: :(Quote:
eve
Yes, it's no wonder the US is insisting that all these countries spend millions of dollars on tamiflu - good business for Rumsfield et al. Just today at a conference in Asia, the Australian PM agreed to give a million dollars towards the H5N1 affair.
As to Kevster's quote re the 12 Chinese children whose deaths are apparently related to tamiflu - are those 12 (and perhaps others) included in the 68 humans who have died of avian flu?
I think that Tamiflu is used against many diffrent strains of flu. I don't think that Bird Flu was the target in this case. It just so happens there may be some side effects to Tamiflu that animal tests may not have shown up. Surprise?
BTW, I said that the Australian PM agreed to give a million dollars towards the H5N1 affair - that should have been $100 million.
It makes me frustrated to think that there are two popular kindergartens here that are closing down because the govt says it can't afford the miserable thousands of dollars to keep it running for the women who really need them.
Weird.
'Chicken dung used to feed fish may help spread bird flu
By Michael McCarthy, Environment Editor
Published: 28 December 2005
Bird flu may be spread by using chicken dung as food in fish farms, a practice now routine in Asia, according to the world's leading bird conservation organisation.'
http://news.independent.co.uk/enviro...icle335356.ece
'Second teenager dies in Turkey bird flu outbreak
By Geneviève Roberts
Published: 05 January 2006
A second Turkish teenager who tested positive for bird flu died today, the semi-official Anatolia news agency reported.
Turkey yesterday confirmed two human cases of bird flu, one of whom, a teenage boy, died on Sunday after developing pneumonia-like symptoms. His sister died in hospital early today, Anatolia reported.'
http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article336622.ece
'Britain urged not to panic after bird flu deaths in Turkey
By Meriel Beattie in Ankara and Jude Sheerin
Published: 06 January 2006
A leading microbiologist urged the British public not to panic as bird flu crept closer to central Europe, with the deaths of three children in Turkey.'
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/hea...icle336777.ece
'It is thought likely that the children contracted the virus while playing with the heads of dead chickens infected with bird flu, he added.'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/birdflu/st...680613,00.html