Did humans always eat meat?
Quote:
Korn
Talking of fish, I just read that Norwegian anthropolgists got a surprise when analyzing stone age findings along the coastal line of Norway (well, Norway IS a coastal line, sort of). This wasn't even Southern Norway, but from an area which has really cold and long winters. They seem to have found out that they didn't eat fish at all, but a lot of raspberries and hazelnuts (just like me! :) ), and only food 'from the soil'.
I've been thinking about this one, and I figure, perhaps they weren't fishing, but then they must've been hunting large mammals or something like that. For clothes if for no other reason. And if they were hunting for clothes, well, one would think they'd eat what they caught... Any thoughts?
evolution and the discovery of meat
I was asked by someone today if I believed that we evolved into a more sophisticated species after we learned to cook and eat meat. I said "no, I don't see how eating meat could have evolved us". He said it was a scientific fact that associated eating meat to our brains expanding so much. I responded that I've heard of other very detailed theories (not just protein = big brain!) that explain that phenomenon of our evolution. From my understanding it's the most baffling event in all of evolution (he agreed to that) and that I also understood that were no concrete explanations, only theories as to what caused it. I went on to say that if anything meat has held us back because the protein in it is only 20% absorbable by the body, it has no vitamins, anti-oxidants, or anything other than protein, b12, and iron so no, I don't see that as a valid explanation for the biggest event of evolution.
So, I wanted to get the opinions of some others here because I know a lot of you are more educated on the subject than I am. If you could post any links to articles that explain one way or the other if meat caused this or not, that would be great :)
Re: evolution and the discovery of meat
Sorry, don't know of any links but IMHO...Absolute nonsense, think about it, all life-vegan children would be halfwits if that were true.
As for learning to cook, caveman drops meat on fire, has no more, so eats it anyway, thinks mmm, this nice, give to tribe, everyone loves it, it becomes a custom to cook the meat. (Then they try it out with other food.)
Utilizing fire to cook, etc, was what made us a more sophisticated species. I think that's what this person may have misconstrued.
Re: evolution and the discovery of meat
Unfortunately anthropologists believe that the human brain could not have grown to its present size without the use of animal protein. Homo habilis, believed to be the earliest representative of our genus (Homo), was a tool user, and there is evidence that this creature used these tools to crack bones and extract the marrow. In terms of a raw food diet only, marrow would have been a more easily digested source of nutrients than the raw roots, nuts, and tubers also consumed by Homo habilis. This does not mean, however, that our cavemen ancestors were mighty, savage hunters who evolved requiring huge slabs of bloody flesh in their diets! Homo habilis was a scavenger, and there is the theory that scavenging is what helped our tiny ancestor develop the intelligence required to steal these sorry leftovers from the true hunters and scavengers without being killed himself.
I don't know too much off the top of my head about the advent of cooking, but I suspect our ancestors got the idea from rummaging through the remains of grass or forest fires. The roasted tubers, and unfortunately, the animals, too, probably gave off very attractive aromas. The hominids were probably the only species able to make the connection between the actual fires, and the tasty results.
I don't have any links, since most of this is what I remember from anthropology texts, but you might try searching the following:
Homo habilis
Homo erectus
Homo sapiens
It is not the best news, but evolving a larger brain by using bone marrow in what was becoming an increasingly colder and harsher environment is no justification to me for our modern-day overindulgence in completely unecessary and detrimental animal products. If the climate had not changed from a warmer, more tropical one our brains might still have evolved on a very different source of easily digested plant protein. Its just that when the climate change altered the environment, easy to eat tropical plants died out, and species had to adapt to what was available or die out too. Homo habilis adapted to a very different environment than our modern one, and survived. There is no reason for modern day Homo sapiens to behave as though we are still living in an environment that made the scavenging of bone marrow essential for survival. Thanks to the reversal of the Ice Age we are again living in a climate that allows an abundance of easy to digest plant foods to thrive. By analogy, people who are stranded in isolated areas by plane crashes or shipwrecks may be temporarily forced during times of extremity to eat the bodies of their dead companions or die. This does not imply that when they are rescued and returned to a more benevolent environment that in order to survive they must continue to cannibalise human beings (though I have seen a few horror films concerning that very subject!).
Re: evolution and the discovery of meat
Obviously it's true that eating meat has made us what we are today.
But evolution is an ongoing process, and now we have the potential for conscious evolution based on global awareness.
Vegans recognise that continued animal exploitation coupled with population expansion is straining available resources beyond their limits.
Humans nowadays have to consciously develop a strategy for sustainable and equitable existence. Meat-eating on the western scale is totally unsustainable, therefore vegans are consciously adapting their behaviour in an attempt to avert disastrous consequences for humanity. This is a contemporary evolutionary trait, arising from our human intelligence and awareness.
Presumably compassion is also a manifestation of higher evolution, since it's apparently absent in 'lower' life forms ;)
Re: evolution and the discovery of meat
Yes, it definitely has to be recognised that eating meat in the past has resulted in what we are today (whether that's good or not is another matter!).
However, I was under the impression that it wasn't so much the eating of animal protein contributing to the larger brain size, but that it was to do with the more advanced communication needed to organize all the hunting trips etc...
Also, I believe that early man didn't actually eat that much meat at all (once a month, so I heard on a recent documentary) and was pretty much vegan for the rest of the time.
Mankind certainly hasn't evolved to be eating meat a few times a day, and it isn't surprising that it causes so many health problems.
One of my lecturers at college said that 'vegetarians are the pinacle of evolution'. He didn't mean it quite like that, but veganism has to be the way to go?!
Re: evolution and the discovery of meat
Evolution or not, we clearly aren't designed to eat meat.
Besides, does it matter whether or not we have evolved / are meant to eat meat? The fact is that over consumption of meat is not sustainable, or healthy and we now have the choice to eat other things. We have the ability to see that exploitation of animals, especially in such great quantity, is not moral or necessary and we have the ability to change how and what we eat.
End of :) :D
Re: evolution and the discovery of meat
Exactly. Vegetarians must be the pinacle of evolution, because they are making sensible choices about the treatment of other living things, health, sustainability etc..
I hate that argument given by non-vegetarians that primitive people ate meat, or the question 'what would you do if you lived in x country and had to eat meat to survive?'. It just isn't relevant! You're absolutely right, it's about being able to make the choices. Obviously if you don't have a choice then that's fair enough, but that just accentuates the fact that the people arguing actually cannot justify why THEY eat meat.