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Soy killing the rainforest?
The people I work with are always trying to say that I am killing animals by eating soy because animals habitats are cut down to plant it. They say that they rain forest is being cut down and that I'm better off eating meat because I'm killing animals anyways. I don't believe this, but I'm not very educated in the process of producing soy - anyone care to enlighten me, or give me a response to shut my boss up.
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Re: Soy killing the rainforest?
Story about RainForests.
I hope that helps. :( But, that's also in Brazil. Animals are becoming extinct because of the rainforests being torn down, which is horrible, but, as for the rainforests themselves, I would never want to see them torn down, they're such an import part of life, especially for offering oxygen and what have you, but I rather see new plants grown where the rainforests are being demolished rather than cattle pastures in the vacant land. Although, that still doesn't justify that animals are dying because they're losing their homes. :(
In the U.S., as of 2004, soy comes from mostly the central states, if I'm correct. (ND SD NE KS MN IA MD AR MS IL WI IN MI OH) I think the U.S. would use their supplies, (which don't come from areas of torn down rainforests) rather than import from Brazil and other areas where soy farms are replacing rainforests.
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Re: Soy killing the rainforest?
You could write to the manufacturers of the soy products you buy expressing concern and asking where they source theirs from.
Last year I wrote to Cauldron, who make a lot of the tofu products sold in the UK, and they said that while their soya does come from South America they have a written guarantee from the suppliers that it comes from areas not affecting the Amazonian Forests. Hmm. Someone else checked with Clearspring, another popular brand, and they said theirs were grown in France.
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Re: Soy killing the rainforest?
A huge amount of soy is used as animal feed, in America about 95% of all non-exported soy protein ends up as livestock feed. Of this, 77% to 95% is irretrievably lost in the process of animal metabolism. (figures from 'The Book of Tofu' by Akiko Aoyagi and William Shurtleff...possibly the percentages have changed, but probably not much)
So eating farmed animals is contributing even more to rainforest destruction. If people ate soy directly themselves, instead of feeding it to animals, a very much smaller area of land would have to be cultivated. Your workmates presumably don't eat wild-ranging animals, but the farmed kind which are consuming vast amounts of crops which could have been fed directly to humans, without the waste of protein and animal suffering, so they're even more responsible for rainforest destruction than you are.
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Re: Soy killing the rainforest?
Quote:
harpy
You could write to the manufacturers of the soy products you buy expressing concern and asking where they source theirs from.
Last year I wrote to Cauldron, who make a lot of the tofu products sold in the UK, and they said that while their soya does come from South America they have a written guarantee from the suppliers that it comes from areas not affecting the Amazonian Forests. Hmm. Someone else checked with Clearspring, another popular brand, and they said theirs were grown in France.
I bought some soya beans which were organically grown in Kent from 'ethical juicers' website...I've planted some here in Wales and they're doing OK so far. Global warming probably means it'll be possible to grow all sorts of stuff in the UK that wouldn't grow here before.
just a grrrl, I would've thought in Canada your beans would most likely be home-grown, anyway :)
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Re: Soy killing the rainforest?
oh wow guys, thanks so much! You've been tons of help!
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Re: Soy killing the rainforest?
Thanks so much for bringing up this topic. It's something I never really thought about before this.
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Re: Soy killing the rainforest?
Mmmm, they never cut down forests to graze animals...
:rolleyes:
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Re: Soy killing the rainforest?
Quote:
harpy
they said that while their soya does come from South America they have a written guarantee from the suppliers that it comes from areas not affecting the Amazonian Forests.
Yeah, it was rainforest once, but now it's a pretty meadow!
:D
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Re: Soy killing the rainforest?
Even if it comes from a bad location/supplier, we consume less soya than livestock. Not eating meat means we are possibly contributing less to this problem. Without mass farming, soya farming would be a non issue.
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Re: Soy killing the rainforest?
i read somewhere recently that thousands of acres of rainforest were being cut down each down to make into cattle ranches, since the demand for beef is sickingly rising.... but i recall reading that the Big Beef Industry is taking a big portion of our rainforest each day...pretty soon we'll be telling our children about the good ole' days when we actually had a rainforest.
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Re: Soy killing the rainforest?
Quote:
adam antichrist
Yeah, it was rainforest once, but now it's a pretty meadow!
:D Hope you're wrong! I expect the French stuff is safer though; not too many rainforests there.
Must admit I hadn't thought of growing my own tofu but it's a nice idea.
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Re: Soy killing the rainforest?
read about that too. it's a major problem in brasil where people can buy land from the government and decide what to do with it-well they cut the forests down of course and plant soy. brasil is one of the biggest 'soy factories' in the world
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Re: Soy killing the rainforest?
I am so glad that someone posted this, cuz I've been really thinking about this problem a lot lately. Especially cuz I have a vegetarian friend who I was criticizing cuz she still eats gelatine and the likes and then she threw that at me. I told her that i thought all my soy came from American places and things, and now have found out that I am right. But at the time it was so hard to say anything back, I'm glad to know that not all soy produced comes from the rainforests. Now I can sleep at night again!:D
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Re: Soy killing the rainforest?
Well, lately, not all has come from America, if you're an American citizen. There has been a shortage in soy supply. I emailed a company about that lately, and this is the response I received:
Dear Alicia:
Thank you for taking the time to contact us. Until recently all soybeans used in White Wave products were grown on organic farms within the United States. Currently the majority of our soybeans that we purchase remain US grown, however due to a recent organic soybean shortage we have begun purchasing organic soybeans from Brazil.
The Brazilian soybeans purchased by White Wave are grown in an area of the country south of the rainforests. No rainforests are damaged in the growth or production of our soybeans.
In addition, the company that White Wave contracts with to purchase Brazilian soybeans is constantly monitoring to make certain no slave labor is used on their farms. Three inspection methods are used to check for slave labor including a visit to each farm from a national certification agency, random visits to each farm by local labor authorities and an extensive inspection and interview process of the farm by the buyer certifying that the farm does not use slave labor.
The Brazilian soybeans continue to meet White Wave's high quality standards. Just like our American-grown crop, the Brazilian beans are grown with traditional plant breeding and farming practices. To insure that the soybean stocks are pure, the plants are grown in a region isolated from non-organic and genetically modified soybean production. White Wave carefully and continuously monitors our soybean growers directly to ensure that the soybeans have not been genetically altered and are of the very best quality.
Highly reputable independent laboratories specializing in genetic identification regularly test White Wave products. Silk® Soymilk has always tested negative for the presence of genetically modified material. We will continue to test Silk and White Wave products to maintain our high quality standards and our product integrity.
We hope this information is helpful.
Best regards from the folks at White Wave.
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Re: Soy killing the rainforest?
Funny, there is more and more land "south of the rainforest" every year!
:rolleyes:
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Thank u so much, that was really helpful cuz that's pretty much the brand that I eat, and hopefully the other ones I eat are ok too. I think I'm gonna check now, that was a really good idea too, thank u so much Crimsonskies!
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Re: Soy killing the rainforest?
I emailed tofutti asking where theirs is grown since it wasn't clearly stated on their site. This is their reply:
Quote:
Thank you for your recent Tofutti email. Our soy is grown in the U.S and is non-GMO. Please feel free to contact us should you have any further questions.
Sincerely yours,
Steven Kass
Tofutti Brands Inc
Thumbs up!
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Re: Soy killing the rainforest?
No problem. I don't want to be the cause of a destroyed rainforest. :(
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Thanx for that reply too adam antichrist! i am going to check wholesoy and yves, i'll let you guys know what they say.
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Re: Soy killing the rainforest?
Quote:
SurfNSun
i read somewhere recently that thousands of acres of rainforest were being cut down each down to make into cattle ranches, since the demand for beef is sickingly rising.... but i recall reading that the Big Beef Industry is taking a big portion of our rainforest each day...pretty soon we'll be telling our children about the good ole' days when we actually had a rainforest.
Heh, if there's no rainforest, you'll probably be struggling to find the breath to tell them the story :)
This topic comes up all the time if you're a vegan. Non-vegans try to tell you that you're harming creatures whenever you eat soya, or carrots or whatever. The truth is, simply by existing you're harming all sorts of creatures - for example, your body is destroying bacteria constantly. That's not the point, the point is that you're doing LESS harm than a non-vegan, and you're doing your best to reduce the harm and suffering that you cause. Unlike them :p
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Farflame, that's so true! Even vegetarian people seem to be rude about the subject and environmental impact to vegans. What is up with that?!
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I had learnt that the main soy productors country is Argentina, and Argentina doesn´t plant in Amazonas. Indeed, China is going to build a railway between Chile and Argentina to carry soy to Chilean ports in the Pacific Ocean, and from there, soy is going to be carried taken to China.
Anyway meat-eaters are responsible of deforestation and directly of many animals killed, so they can´t say that a vegan is responsible of animals murdered.
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And even if they do say something about vegans killing animals, it makes them hypocrits. It's good to know about the Argentina thing though because whether I am impacting animal's homes less or not, I really don't want to do it at all. :)
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Re: Soy killing the rainforest?
So good news, Wholesoy gets all of their soybeans from the US. Here's what they said:
Thank you for contacting WholeSoy. We buy our soybeans from a single organic supplier in the Midwestern United States. The beans are certified organic and 100% non-gmo.
So that's good news!
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Re: Soy killing the rainforest?
to anyone who has ever had ANY question of soybean growing killion the rainforest...
please put it out of your mind...
i studied environmental sciences for a year and half... i knew these facts in the back of my head, but wanted to find a hard copy for you all to look at...
its in pdf (adobe).... heres the link
(page 6 starts the very relevent info)
http://www.yesworld.org/info/facts.pdf
this is what it says to all of you who dont have adobe...
"
Meat, Water And Forests
• The production of a typical pound of beef in the United States requires 2,500 gallons of water.58
• More than half of all the water consumed in the United States is being poured on the land growing food for
animals.59
• Two hundred sixty million acres of forested US land has been cleared to create land for animal
agriculture.60 That's more than an acre for every US citizen.
Meat And Global Warming
• When US News & World Report featured our endangered planet Earth on its cover, their report stated:
"Grazing land of tropical rain forest needed for 1/4 lb. of beef — 55 sq. ft.
CO2 (carbon dioxide) emitted by clearing 55 square feet of tropical rain forest — 500 lb."
• The report also said that we can save more CO2 from entering our atmosphere by not eating 5 pounds of
rain forest beef than by not driving a car for a year.61
• A meat based diet is responsible for using up at least 20 times more energy than a vegetarian diet.62
"
that last bit is the most important for those who worry about soybeans killing the rainforest...
i cant find exact numbers, but 15 acres of soybeans feeds like one hundred times more people per year than the animals who grazed on 15 acres could feed (if one were to eat animals)
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I knew all those facts about global warming and everything, but I had forgotten. The thing that upsets me is that I have a teacher, whom I love dearly, who always talks about sustainability and such, but then when I asked her if she was even a vegetarian her response was "No, I think that I should work on a more system based level, I don't feel that I can do much as an individual making a change. I was like WAHT?! I have to bring in those numbers just to show her that even her alone making the change helps tremendously. Thanx for all the facts! :D
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it's also worth considering how much more polluting meat production is in terms of the excrement etc, which can be really damaging to waterways. the best type of soya to buy is organic if you can as the environmental impact of this is so much less than crops where pesticides and fertilisers are used.
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Re: Soy killing the rainforest?
Quote:
moochbabe
"No, I think that I should work on a more system based level, I don't feel that I can do much as an individual making a change. I was like WAHT?!
If you want to change the system, begin by changing yourself :)
Vested interests are so ingrained that 'the system' isn't likely to change spontaneously, only individuals can really begin to make a difference.
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I agree so completely with u! I think that we are a part of that system, and by us changing, the system will eventually change too, once all the individuals are set in motion to changing, or at least enough of them. :)
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I hate when people don't change because they believe one person can't makea difference. One person can, but even if they couldn't would you still want to contribute to the problem? My husband and I discussed osmething similiar when I got mad at him for littering, even though there was tons of litter around. He said there was no point of not littering when there was so much, and I said I wouldn't litter because I didn't want to contribute to it even if my litter wasn't even noticed.
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I think we've all done it in our time, sat there and thought 'What can I do?'. I'm 35 now, and it's only recently that I finally realised that I can do EVERYTHING! All I have to do is make the change myself, that's all I can do, so that's what I do. There was a time when I thought it was my job to change everybody else. I'm glad those days are over :)
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It just seems funny to me when people say they want to "Change the system". I always think...well rn't u a part of the system, and until u make the change, how do u expect anything else to? Oh well, such is life, some just don't think that way I suppose, but I think maybe she'll change her mind...if I have anything to say about it at least lol :D
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Re: Soy killing the rainforest?
Quote:
just_a_grrrl
The people I work with are always trying to say that I am killing animals by eating soy because animals habitats are cut down to plant it. They say that they rain forest is being cut down and that I'm better off eating meat because I'm killing animals anyways. I don't believe this, but I'm not very educated in the process of producing soy - anyone care to enlighten me, or give me a response to shut my boss up.
Ask your friends WHO they think all that soy is feeding! Soy is planted and cultivated on a large scale for food animals! So most of the soy in the world ends up in animal feed, for the animals that eventually end up on people's dinner tables! So if THEY stopped eating meat, forests wouldn't need to be cleared to provide land for soy crops
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The truth!
Where is the Ministry for Consumer Freedom to criticise this article?
'Soya has established itself as a profitable link in the processed food chain and Brazil has emerged as Europe's main supplier of soy, most of which is fed to livestock, helping to deliver cheaper meat products to supermarket shelves and fast-food counters.'
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...cle1197277.ece
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Re: Soy killing the rainforest?
mmm...just called Alpro to ask about the sourcing of their soya beans and was told that all their beans come from South Brazil "well away from the rainforests" and that they have "nothing to do with" the destruction of the rainforests. i'm afraid i'm feeling cynical and wondering what exactly 'south of the rainsforests' means...mmm. oh, it's such a tricky subject. i don't want to be supporting the destruction of the rainforests and i'm not sure how i feel about supporting such a major company as alpro but i certainly don't want to support the dairy industry. i know there are other milks (grains and cereals) but they're more expensive and not so readily available. well, i suppose we can but do our best!
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Sorry if this is going over what other people have already said, but I think the point is this;
An individual vegan's impact on land required to grow their food is tiny in comparison with a meat-eater's. I know that the UK is fully self sustainable if you turned a switch that made everyone vegan. We are a tiny country, yet we still have the agricultural land to grow enough crops for everyone without importing crops. Therefore, regardless of where you're soy is sourced, you are still reducing the net effect of food comsumption, and if it weren't for all the meat eaters then there probably would be no need for any importing (of course the effect on third world farmers would be felt here....just to complicate matters...but this is not the time or place to get into debates over the World Trade Organisation and such like). As things go, all the reported claims of 'soy destroying the rain forests' (or at least the majority) are cases where huge amounts of plant are grown to feed tiny amounts of animals.
I think the takehome message is that the only reason rainforests are destroyed is because of the greedy coroporate producers of in-efficient meat produce so much meat in your country that there is no room for vegetables/legumes anywhere. Therefore vegans should all hold their heads up high and know that they are not the reason for this atrocity!
I think this is an interesting link, and shows the thought the vegan community puts into their food choices (unlike so many others)
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Re: Soy killing the rainforest?
A vegan on another web forum I use told me 90% of soya that is grown by cutting down areas of rainforest is used as animal feed. He's a smart and well read guy so I see no reason why it wouldn't be true.
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Re: Soy killing the rainforest?
Alpro state on their soya milk cartons that their soya doesn't come from the rainforest. But anyway even if it did, and i don't know of any alpro/tofutti/plamil/sogood/redwoods products that i might very occasionally buy that source their soya from rainforests. They don't because generally they are aware that it's an issue customers are concerned about, and even if you took all the soya for soya milk it's not going to destroy vast swathes of the rainforests.
But when you look at cow feed, that's another matter, a whole lot of soya needs to go into that, and the response from meat eaters (whose meat also oft comes from the rainforest) is that cow feed is a by product. In my opinion it could be a by product of the processed foods industry that's ramming soya (like palm oil) into just about everything (but it's not, cow feed has been driving the market 'since' BSE). Anyone who comes out with an argument like that hasn't done their research, of which you can find a lot of info in any mainstream (half decent) newpaper in the UK and from centrist groups like Friends of the Earth and Greenpeace.
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Re: Soy killing the rainforest?