Side effects of going raw?

I've recently gone (mostly) raw, and i have no idea if this is connected, but i can only assume it is because this all started at the same time as i lay off the cooked food. I'm not knocking raw veganism, because it's the best thing that's happened to me in a long time, but it's as if i've suddenly because completely devoid of energy. I'm have to force myself not to go to bed at 7pm, and stay up until about 9 or 10pm because i'm so tired. Then i'll wake up around 3am, want to get up then, but i make myself sleep for a few more hours. So despite getting at least 8 or 9 hours sleep a night, i'm exhausted come lunchtime. I'm not doing anything strenuous, i'm a student! I can't even face going to the cinema, let alone going out, and my friends are starting to comment on how i never go out anymore, but i'm just so exhausted i literally can't. Has anyone else had problems with this? I am missing something essential from my diet that i hadn't thought about? On an average day, i'm having soaked oat groats for breakfast, nakd bar for lunch, salad for dinner, then i snack on fresh and dried fruit, and nuts, so i'm never hungry. Is it something worth going to the doctors for? I'm supposed to give blood on wednesday, but i don't want to make matters worse... :(

well maybe you should go to bed at 7pm...its probably your body's way of telling you it needs to rest. and if you wake up in the middle of the night do something like read...maybe its detox? or maybe you aren't getting enough calories or water?

I had a similar experience when going raw for a month and it didn't get better. I just could focus I was so exhausted and would zone out at work. It was awful, so I stopped.

I have to agree that I am feeling a bit tired. But I also had an anaesthetic the other week so I wasn't sure if it was that.

I remember feeling a bit tired when I went raw in November 2007, I think I asked about it on another forum, I'll see if I can find the thread and what ppl said. I recall them talking about food combining.

I can't find the advice I was given but I was reading Dr Sommer's website this morning where he mentioned the Boutenko's tips on avoiding mistakes on raw. I googled this and found an article http://www.rawfoodhowto.com/four-raw...t-mistakes.cfm the main reason for being tired there is too many fats ie. avocados, nuts, oils. And dried fruits because they can upset digestion.

I think after I was told about this in 07 I tried going high raw, low fat (like 80/10/10) but then I fainted for the first time ever and pretty much went back to cooked foods.

Thanks Kitteh, that's really useful! I think i'll try to lay off the nuts and dried fruits for a while, and see if that improves anything :)

I made raw cherry tarts on Saturday, the base has hazelnuts in it and the filling has cahews in it, I ate 2 on Saturday and one on Sunday. Plus I made raw crackers which have flax, chia and sesame seeds in them. I felt so tired on Saturday night and exhausted from about midday yestday :(

If you are feeling run down or some such, and suspect it may be the diet (or how you are doing if if that's what you think it is), then what about keeping tabs on what you eat in a day and what's in it nutritionally? Sounds like a bit of work, but maybe there's a vitamin or something that isn't well represented in what you're currently eating. To check also for enough calories, too, would be a good idea.

are you eating enough iron?

I think so... I take a kelp tablet every day as a back up, so i'm sure that's not the problem. But i've decided now that i'm going to have some cooked food in my diet - i don't have the equipment to do raw veganism properly, and i can't survive on salad and nakd bars all the time! I'm still going to have 2 raw meals a day - breakfast can be made raw so easily, and i can have a salad for lunch or dinner, then for the other meal i'm going to have something more substantial, with tofu or tempeh. That's the new plan anyway!

I think that's a good plan til you get yourself sorted. I'd have a nakd bar AFTER my lunch, and a salad WITH my dinner! :D I'm surprised you haven't been ravenously hungry!

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Quantum Mechanic

If you are feeling run down or some such, and suspect it may be the diet (or how you are doing if if that's what you think it is), then what about keeping tabs on what you eat in a day and what's in it nutritionally? Sounds like a bit of work, but maybe there's a vitamin or something that isn't well represented in what you're currently eating. To check also for enough calories, too, would be a good idea.

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I use an online program called Calorie King and I know I am getting enough calories (well according to what the program says) and it also shows nutrients but I don't look at those stats, so will go have a look now :)

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Gorilla

are you eating enough iron?

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I am still taking all my vitamins and supplements, I take Floradix liquid twice a day, so I hope I am absorbing it. And I eat a big bunch of baby spinach daily too.

JC, I think your plan sounds great, you really have to do what's good for you. It's been raining and cold the past week here and I'm starting to want cooked food so I don't know if I can keep up high raw through autumn/winter.

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Kitteh

I am still taking all my vitamins and supplements, I take Floradix liquid twice a day, so I hope I am absorbing it. And I eat a big bunch of baby spinach daily too.

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just FYI spinach is not a good source of iron because it contains high levels of oxalate, making the iron unavailable to the human body. also try to eat iron and calcium-rich foods separately to increase absorption potential.

hope you both feel better soon :)

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Gorilla

just FYI spinach is not a good source of iron because it contains high levels of oxalate, making the iron unavailable to the human body. also try to eat iron and calcium-rich foods separately to increase absorption potential.

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nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.I love spinach and eat tons of it and thought it was good for my low iron levels. You've crushed all my hopes Gorilla. :sad:

sorry but don't shoot the messenger :p

Good sources of iron that are low oxalate are dark grapes, avocado, most "herb greens" like basil, corriander etc, coconut, asparagus, peppers (bell, banana, etc), tomatoes, bananas, broccoli.

You can check out www.nutritiondata.com for nutrient contents :)

http://www.lazylaces.com/pics/center_fatherted.jpg

Oxalic acid does not influence nonhaem iron absorption in humans: a comparison of kale and spinach meals 2008, European Journal of Clinical Nutrition
"CONCLUSION: Potassium oxalate did not influence iron absorption in humans from a kale meal and our findings strongly suggest that OA[Oxalic Acid] in fruits and vegetables is of minor relevance in iron nutrition."

In practice perhaps not. Spinach's high vitamin C content is an iron-availability promoter in contrast - but who knows how their influences interact during digestion.
Elsewhere,
"Spinach ranks high among leafy vegetables in total iron content but has ofen been regarded as a poor source of dietary iron because of low availability. Some studies do support that view ... Layrisse et al...1.7% ... Moore and Dubach...1.3% ... <10%. Other studies have demonstrated somewhat better absorption of iron from spinach. Ruegamer et al. ...10-20%. Pye and Mcloed...26%[raw]...31%[cooked]. McMillan and Johson reported ... 13%.
... The depressant effects of oxalate on calcium utilization might lead one to suspect similar effects on iron absorption, but close examination of the literature does not completely justify this conclusion. ... Our data indicate that the high oxalate content of spinach does not result in poor availability of iron ..." D R van Campen & R M Welch, but old (1980).

Still,
"Spinach was digested in vitro...with and without the addition of supplemental ascorbic acid... cell cultures were used to determine iron bioavailability from the spinach mixtures. ... showed the supplemental ascorbic acid doubled bioavailability of iron from spinach. The data show fresh spinach is a poor source of iron" C J Rutzke, 2004. 'Bioavailability of iron from spinach using an in vitro/human Caco-2 cell bioassay model'
:question::question:

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Gorilla

just FYI spinach is not a good source of iron because it contains high levels of oxalate, making the iron unavailable to the human body.

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is that both raw and cooked gorilla?

iron and vit c should be eaten together to maximise the absoption of both.

^ i'm not sure if it makes a difference whether the spinach is raw or cooked, sorry.

tea and coffee inhibit iron absorption too but not a problem if you're raw i guess.

that's interesting as spinach is always pushed as a good source of iron.

i guess the best way is to mix your dark greens - spinach, kale, savoy, pak/bok choi etc...

("Index --------| Species--|Raw material-- | After Blanching--| After Cooking
Total oxalates- |Spinach-- |0.94 ± 0.030--| 0.78 ± 0.011 -- | 0.71 ± 0.010
(g/100 g) "
G Jaworska, 2005. 'Nitrates, nitrites, and oxalates in products of spinach and New Zealand spinach: Effect of technological measures and storage time...' Food Chemistry.
Cooked=lowered oxalates. )

Spinach is expensive stuff too. I think i'll stick to more definate sources of iron in the future :D Oh, and i gave blood today and wasn't anaemic - hoorah!! Although i did nearly pass out haha

thanks prawnil

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Zero

Good sources of iron that are low oxalate are dark grapes, avocado, most "herb greens" like basil, corriander etc, coconut, asparagus, peppers (bell, banana, etc), tomatoes, bananas, broccoli.

You can check out www.nutritiondata.com for nutrient contents :)

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Avocado, check
Basil, check
Bananas, check
Tomatoes, check
Broccoli, check

Thanks, Zero & Prawnil for those studies :) And baby spinach isn't expensive here and I love it in my green smoothies so I will keep on eatin' it.

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Kitteh

here and I love it in my green smoothies so I will keep on eatin' it.

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heh heh - me too!

fresh fruit all the way!!

Ok so about a week ago I started the raw food diet to help control my blood sugars and because I hate animal cruelty. (type 1 diabetic here) and since then I've managed to get off my short acting (still using my long acting twice a day but just getting off short acting is a miracle enough). But since then I've had a terribly acidic stomach and I've felt so much dizzier. Ill stand up and be crazy dizzy and all since I started my raw vegan diet.

Is this part of the detoxing? I don't have insurance so I Can't go to the doctor and I hardly make enough money to pay for my long acting insulin let along short acting. I have it as back up. But my point is, does the dizziness ever go away?! :amazed_ani:

Hi

I've noticed quite a few people on the forum talking about eating raw. I was wondering why you want to do this, is it for health reasons?

Is molasses raw? I think it is spun out of shredded sugar cane before the first boiling... but not sure without checking.

Trying to figure out why my post got moved...when it was a separate question. I figured out the dizziness was lack of protein so make sure you are getting your protein! As for raw, Whale, you could use Agave nector or stevia :) Mymbles I went raw because it's the best way to naturally lower blood sugars AND get the full nutrients out of your food. And trust me you dont realize how processed and how devoid of nutrients you are until you give your body a ton and watch how it reacts!

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squirrelgurl07

Trying to figure out why my post got moved...when it was a separate question.

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Hi! :-)

A thread called "Raw diet = dizzy?" seems to be about side effects of going raw to me - so I merged the two threads. There are some benefits of merging threads... the same topic or a similar issue may already have been discussed in the already existing posts, so one may find that the question already is answered - plus, subscribers to the old thread may get a notification when a new post occurs in this thread. These people may know something about the question you asked, and respond to your post.

It's too bad that necessary medication/seeing a doctor, when necessary, isn't free in all countries. I'm not a doctor, and know very little about diabetes, but like other forums, we have this policy of asking people not to use the forum as a substitute for professional diagnosis or treatment. When you wrote about being 'crazy dizzy and all' since you started your raw vegan diet, it seemed to me that you either were lacking something (B12, protein etc) in your diet, or that you needed to see a doctor. You say you can't afford this, but (pardon my ignorance) what happens with people without an health insurance when they get seriously ill in US? I'm not saying that you shouldn't go raw, but I guess a doctor would have recommended a gradual change, and reduce medication when or after he has seen that your new diet makes your medication unnecessary.

Where do you get your protein and B12 from now?

I switched back to being a normal vegan and decided to wean myself slowly onto raw. As for what happens when we have no health insurance and get sick we have to go to the doctor/hospital. Some, like my endocrinologist have a low income plan where they help you pay off your bill. Others will send you a bill and you have to file through the state and hope they pay it, if they don't you're stuck with it. :( Currently I can't get a response out of anyone to get my insurance back and I can't afford it through my work because weekly itd be over half of my paycheck.

I have low vit D as it is and I think this has had a lot to do with it. But for now I am going to do a gradual change as much as I don't want to, I feel it'd be less of a shock but it was wonderful to see my body not require short acting insulin while doing the raw diet. Gives me hope for the next time I go raw. :)

God these posts are scary, you all sound like you are starving yourselves to death. No one should feel like that, and if you do, your body is telling you something, please listen to it. If you insist on this raw thing, then maybe triple what you are eating right now.

I have been trying how to determine if raw food green smoothies could be problematic. Someone mentioned that they are concerned that it oxidizes the greens when they are blended. I searched on Google and Yahoo, but couldn't find definite answers. What I would like to know is if this is true, if so it would be a real shame. If it is true, perhaps there are ways they can be prepared that would negate this effect. If anyone knows, or know of sites where I could download information, or Youtube, I would love to hear from you.

What I found (as someone who hits the gym every day and has to write papers after) as a raw vegan you really NEED to eat lots. Lots and lots as vegetables have few calories. I do cheat a little as I have soy milk in my banana smoothie in the morning but I can't stand just having water. Here are two tips I go by.. 1) Increase your fruit intake, fruit has a lot of natural sugar and calories so it will give you a boost. 2) This can cost a bit so I suggest finding a local farm shop or somewhere that sells cheap or wholesale vegetables and that will keep the cost right down :)

Thanks mythil, very good advice. Do you know anything about oxidization of blended greens? I am hoping that oxidization doesn't prove an issue.

I'm not sure of the science behind it but I've never really thought that cutting things up into smaller bits (Which is what a smoothie is really) would effect much at all. I use smoothies all the time and never had a problem, same with soup.

MoloKai Hawaii, there is a raw vegan commune on the big island in Ma'lau? (unsure of its name)? Its been set up with help of the Author of the 80/10/10 diet. This may help you as they also sell their produce locally. Check out foods like medjool dates, there are a few companies like '7 hot dates'.com who can do bulk orders and they are delicious! Also the 'date people' are raw foodist date farmers. In hawaii you have plenty of avocados, mangos available.
Blessings

Thanks Mordechai, I didn't know about the raw vegans on Hawaii island and will check out the dates.:-)

Thanks mythil, I agree and wouldn't think just making things smaller would make a difference. I am thinking the oxidization they are warning about may come if the blended greens are stored for awhile after being blended.