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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
Quote:
jhenn
I'm starting to believe Neal Barnard where he says that dairy and eggs have addictive properties. I think if I just stick it out for a while I will lose the cravings.
I was a l/o vegetarian for 25 yrs and I went off chocolate & cheese cold-turkey (or should that be cold-tofu?) in January this year. I was totally addicted to cheese :eek: I used to eat it with every meal :eek: :eek: and I used to pay the big bucks for vegetarian cheese too :eek: :eek: :eek: (As Portiakitty already said, the stuff is expensive!).
I was climbing the walls for a while but the wonderful people around here helped me alot. :D
Now I rarely think about cheese. I certainly don't crave it anymore - as a matter of fact, the idea of eating it makes me feel queasy. I have a little vegan chocolate as a treat now and again - but I'm working on cutting out sugar too. (Cane sugar that is - I eat fruit.)
Anyway, best of luck and keep us posted. :)
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
Yay guys! I had my first breakfast without dairy today! This is a landmark event as I always have milk and donuts or cereal for breakfast.
EDIT: I should say this breakfast still had a lot of sugar in it (peanut butter, juice, two fruits).
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
Thats great jhenn. Keep it up and you will get there. It does get easier i promise ;)
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
Yeah I think I'm going to give up dairy before I give up sugar. The only problem is I told my mom I would continue to eat dairy because it makes life easier for her making meals, etc... I really do want to give up dairy though and I guess I just need to tell her.
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
yay just had a dairy-free lunch!
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
You go!
They may be a wee bit over the top, but here's what vegan lunch's can be:
http://veganlunchbox.blogspot.com/
Just a little encourement and inspiration;)
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
Oh wow this is a really cool blog. Thanks you've given me something to do.
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
Okay I went that day that I was posting without dairy at all, but yesterday my brother, his friends, and I decide to order pizza. As non-vegans they wanted cheese so we got cheese. However that was the only dairy I had. I'm at work this morning and I was late and I didn't eat breakfast so I had some cake and cookies that we had left over from some event. I feel really bad though. I believe that I am addicted to sugar and not dairy though. For example instead of a latte I had a coffee the other day with lots of sugar and it satisfied me fine (no cream). I would really like a soy latte now though :)
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
I love soya lattes, but i still need sugar. I usually dip some chocolate in it :o
jhenn, i think it would be wise is you stocked up on some vegan cookies and chocs. You can carry some around with you so if you need to snack then you wont be tempted to just buy a dairy cookie.
There are plenty of vegan websites that have an amazing amount of sweet treats for vegans.
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
Yeah I think tommorow I may go to the local health food store and stock up on some vegan goodies. It will be hard not to eat them all at once though :)
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
Unfortunatly their web site seems to be down at the moment, but in the next day or so try vegsource (they've just moved, it used to be .org, but now it's supposed to be .com, though I'm not having any luck with this at the moment). Anyway - there you will find ALL the help you need on this! In addition to a lot of really useful articles, there are not one, but two vegan recipe sites. One is a recipe data base, the other is a hosted by a very tallented can solve anything, find a recipe for anything, veganise anything woman.
I'm so sorry I can't give you the link right now - hopefully this wonder site will be back up soon - they've been out in operation for ever, so I doubt they've disapeared.
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
Yeah I'm familiar with veg source. They maintain a pretty decent site and are affiliated with a lot of wonderful professionals who have a lot of good material available. I was thinking of buying their healthy life expo dvds but they're a tad pricey, plus I stopped buying dvds altogether because they are secret encrypted disks which are illegal to play with free software.
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
It's back up now:
http://www.vegsource.com/
Ask "Chef Deb" - she'll help you!
This is another good one, but don't take offence: I'm not saying I think you're fat! In fact, I picture you as one of these people who can eat anything without gaining a pound...
http://www.fatfreevegan.com/faqs.shtml
Just a lot of good recipe ideas, and a lot of great desert / baked goods that are a little lower in refined sugar.;)
C
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
Guess we posted at the same time.
So - what happens when you play dvds with free software?
What about burned or free shared dvds on 'legal' software?
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
Quote:
jhenn
Yeah I think I'm going to give up dairy before I give up sugar. The only problem is I told my mom I would continue to eat dairy because it makes life easier for her making meals, etc... I really do want to give up dairy though and I guess I just need to tell her.
If you get on well with your mother, she may well experiment and become vegan herself. Just try, oh, I don't know, well, just try something like custard made with soya milk and see what she says. You know, all the things people who eat what they consider to be normal. If she doesn't like it, try it with half goats milk and half soya milk. You do get used to it.
I tried totally vegan for a while and reverted to dairy. Goats milk instead of cows milk. Then I thought of the little billy kids who will go to the slaughter house just because they are little boys. So here I am, trying to go vegan again. My trouble is that I am permanently ill and I get really fatigued. I find it easier to eat 'normally' when I am at my worse. Then again, vegetable and fruit juices are a good standby in these times. They become the main meal instead of the sideline. I would like to know if vitamins and other nutrition gets destroyed in the freezer. I would really like to make a lot of meals when I am well and freeze them for the times when I am out of it. Can anyone advise me on this?
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
Quote:
portiakitty
Guess we posted at the same time.
So - what happens when you play dvds with free software?
What about burned or free shared dvds on 'legal' software?
It is illegal to play dvds with free software. When I talk about free software I'm talking about free as in speech, not as in beer. Its not the same but its mostly like open source software. To play dvds you have to give up your freedom by using propreitary non-free software. It is possible to play dvds with free software but in most countries to do so is breaking the law. The Digital Millenium Copyright Act makes it illegal to break copyright protection on dvds, which is why DeCSS (the free software dvd decoder) is illegal in the United States. I refuse to buy DVD's because they are secret encrypted disks that I can't play with free software. I will however watch a dvd if someone breaks the encryption and shares the file with me in another format, like ogg theora. I am not against sharing files with your neighbor through P2P and bittorrent. Sharing with your neighbor is not the moral equivalent to attacking a ship like the companies would have you believe. Sharing makes for a good society with a strong spirit of goodwill, and I will continue file sharing even if it is illegal.
If you want to learn how to play dvds in free software I can help you in private, but I encourage you not to buy dvds but instead to download things you might want to watch.
HDTV is also an assault on our freedoms, as well as Digital Restrictions Management, aka DRM like in itunes music store.
If you want to find out more check out http://www.gnu.org/philosophy or http://www.eff.org
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
I doubt my mom would go vegan because she thinks God made animals for us to eat.
And I also have an illness, but the vegan diet has been shown for all stages of life if properly planned. The ADA which is probably the biggest diet org on the planet confirmed this, and they are compromised of professionals.
If your fatigued your probably not getting a lot of calories. If you don't have money on food focus on beans and rice. Beans and rice and carbs will fill you up but vegetables will not, but you still need some vegetables.
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
For sage advice about health, go to:
http://www.pcrm.org/index.html
Could also provide some helpful arguments for Mother's who feel that eating meat is the way to go.
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
Hey everybody. Its been a few days since I have last posted, but I just need to share some things with you guys.
Sometimes I do not have animal products with meals, but sometimes I do. Sometimes I feel bad about it and sometimes I don't. I should say that since going vegetarian I have not ate meat except once when I went freegan and had some pizza with pig on it. It didn't really bother me because I knew that this pizza would just be thrown out if I didn't eat it.
Now for other sitiautions where I conciously consume dairy, like I said sometimes I feel bad about it and sometimes I don't. I guess I have taken a pretty big step in going vegetarian and not eating any meat, fish, or fowl. I probably did eat some cheese with rennet in it though becuase I don't always check.
I have a lot of good vegan cookbooks including Vegan with a Vengence, Students vegetarian cookbook, and a few others.
I live with my mother and I she knows I'm lacto-ovo vegetarian. However she doesn't know that I really want to go vegean. Do you guys think I should tell her this?
I think since I have money in the bank I will start riding my bike to the store to get food. There is a mexican/asian market within biking distance near my house, as well as a big commericial supermarket. I could fill up my backpack with like beans and rice (dry) and other stuff.
I really don't understand why I'm not more strongly associated with veganism and animal rights. I don't really have a burning passion for it, but deep down I know its right. Does anyone have any tips or comments? Thanks guys.
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
Hi there Jhen! - So if someone asked you why you are vegetarian what would you say?. Then again if someone asked you why you want to go vegan what would you say to that? There must be some sort of passion in you to do this otherwise you wouldnt bother.:)
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
Quote:
tabitha
So if someone asked you why you are vegetarian what would you say?
I would say that I want to do the right thing, and I view the killing of animals for human consumption not only unecessary in modern society, but also totally immoral based on utilitarian ethics.
Quote:
tabitha
Then again if someone asked you why you want to go vegan what would you say to that?
I would say to be totally moral, one must reduce all animal products from the diet as much as possible and conciously.
Quote:
tabitha
There must be some sort of passion in you to do this otherwise you wouldnt bother.:)
I really don't have a burning passion for animals. I have more of a passion for being ethical.
I have more of a passion for ethics and doing the right thing
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
My youngest son has decided to go vegetarian this week after stuffing his face with McDonalds for about 2 weeks. He loves animals, but turns a blind eye to the suffering. My eldest son isnt particularly bothered about animals but is keen to be healthy and wants to give being vegan a try (mind you I have heard all this before:rolleyes:) We all have our reasons. "Its all good" as my kids say:D Thank you for answering so concisely Jhen.
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
Thanks for the link. I am so totally motivated to try new recipes. My foods tends to consist of any and all variations of veggies with pasta, vegan burgers, veggies sautéed in olive oil over variations of rice, veggies over baked potatoes with soy sour cream and canola butter, fruits, cereals, nuts and being the southerner that I am bowls of grits with canola butter ;) And add to that the occasional cheese-less veggie pizza and veggie Chinese take out.
I need new ideas.
:(
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
Jhenn, it looks like the problem here is that you haven't completely decided on the ethical approach you want to take. Veganism is such a restrictive diet by normal dieting standards that you'll never be able to succeed unless you're motived solely by the ethical aspect. The health benefits should matter too, but for me it's a positive side effect. You shouldn't feel bad about not having your heart all the way in it yet, because in the end you're only accountable to your own beliefs and not ours :-)
If you've got the interest and not the burning passion, then just keep researching and learning. Pick up and read Fast Food Nation if you haven't already. There are several threads on this forum about consumption of eggs that might help you solidify that in your mind. In the end though, if you decide that animal rights just isn't for you, then rest easy knowing that you ARE doing a big favor to the world by not consuming meat. Giving up dairy would just be the soy icing on that delicious vegan carrot cake!
If you can't afford to go vegan, then PLEASE don't kick yourself at all! It's a sensitive situation for a lot of people and some of the more priveliged vegans like myself sometimes lose sight that others can only do what they can. If you can afford to eat dairy-free a few days a week, then at least shoot for that.
PS, the woman who wrote Student's Vegetarian Handbook REALLY loves garlic a whole, whole lot. Yuck!
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
Quote:
mrknifey87
Veganism is such a restrictive diet by normal dieting standards that you'll never be able to succeed unless you're motived solely by the ethical aspect.
I do not agree with that actually. For me the ethical aspect is a positive benefit but my entire motivation is the health benefit. What meat and animal by-products do to the human body is inhumane to the human body first and inhumane to the animal second. As how I see it. I understand the importance of dealing with inhuman treatment to animals but if we stop treating our bodies in an inhumane way as some garbage dump then that eliminates the cause of the slaughter of animals.
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
I disagree because I reject that eating animal products is inherently unhealthy. If your sole goal is to be healthy and active, eating non-mercury infested fish or grass-fed beef, for example, is not treating your body like a "garbage dump". That comes with the additives inherent in factory farming. While most evidence does point to vegan alternatives being the most healthy, that does not in itself make meat intrinsically unhealthy. Which is why I think it's difficult to center your lifestyle around what is basically a philosophy, for health reasons. It opens itself up to questions like, "well, this is arctic, untouched, perfect salmon that will be relatively good for me, so why can't I fudge this just once?"
I think that ceasing to treat our bodies like garbage dumps would involve shifting the paradigm of industrial farming to natural food sources, like aforementioned grass-fed beef and such. Without getting into humans being "meant" to eat a certain way (which is just completely absurd), it's safe to say that you can live a healthy life as an omnivore, or a healthy life as a vegan. It's just a matter of one being significantly cheaper than the other.
Of course as long as you're a vegan the objective is being accomplished, and you still care about animal rights. But giving up dairy because it's bad for you is a lot less compelling than giving up dairy because it's wrong.
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
I'm sorry but I can't see how you think that eating vegan is more expensive. There are so many cheap vegan foods such as beans and rice. Yes veg and fruit can be expensive but seasonal stuff is cheaper and what vegetarian or meat eater doesn't eat these things too (or at least they should be!!). Meat and dairy are not cheap.
Monday xx
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
Quote:
mrknifey87
But giving up dairy because it's bad for you is a lot less compelling than giving up dairy because it's wrong.
I guess that depends on who one is speaking too. Before commercial farming the milking of cows was quite humane back on personal farms. People had one or two milk cows and those cows had a healthy life. I'm sure there are dairy farms out there that although they are small and produce far less milk than commercial cow "prisons" the cows on the smaller farms live a pretty happy life.
So if I enjoyed milk but didn't want to support harsh conditions for cows I would buy my milk from these smaller humane dairy farms.
Same with humane chicken coups that collect eggs. I'm sure there are places that collect eggs and the chickens live a very healthy and happy life. These places are small and produce less eggs but the living conditions of their chickens may be very healthy.
So if animal rights was my only reason for thinking going from a vegetarian to a vegan diet and not the health reasons then that's not enough reason. Since there are farmers who have animal friendly farms.
I visit a vegan juice bar in Atlanta and I know the crowd of people who visit. Trust me animal rights is not their motivation for being vegan. They are vegan because they see the body as a spiritual temple and want it to be as healthy and as pure as possible. I've never once heard an animal rights discussion in that place. But lots of discussion on how animal by-products impact the body. The closest I’ve heard of an animal focus conversation is that milk is for baby cows not humans. And eggs are meant to become baby chickens not breakfast. But the rights of the animals? Not their motivation.
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
Exactly, we are the only species who drinks milk after weaning.
Lol, can you imagine some sort of predatory animal stalking lactating mothers simply for their milk? :P
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
Decide whether you really want to do it.
If you don't, don't.
If you do...
I think it may be wise at first not too worry about ingredients lists, that can be rather hard work if you like processed foods.
I had most trouble giving up cow's milk. Eventually I found a soya milk I did not mind the taste of. After a while cow's milk began to tast foul and revolting and rancid, if anyone mistakenly added it to my tea. I could even taste a rancid taste if someone had had milk in the cup and not washed it properly.
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
Quote:
mrknifey87
Without getting into humans being "meant" to eat a certain way (which is just completely absurd)
Absurd how? Our intestines are not really designed to cope with digesting meat. And according to the WHO, as much as 75% of the world's population may be alergic to lactose. Because we lack the enzyme necessary to digest it.
Quote:
mrknifey87
But giving up dairy because it's bad for you is a lot less compelling than giving up dairy because it's wrong.
I don't agree. It's subjective and depends on personal circumstance. I may not give a hoot about the animals, but if I am allergic to milk then that's pretty compelling.
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
this video helped a friend of mine go from ovo-lacto to vegan
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Re: Dying for Dairy
Quote:
Korn
It's just like being on holiday in a country where you can't buy the food stuff you're used to: it's better to enjoy the sun and the new things you can eat, instead of focusing on what you can't get. Personally I went vegan overnight, but had strong cravings for a lot of things after that, and switched back and forth several times before I ended up in a situation where I know I won't go back to cheese, yoghurt or meat again.
wow that hits home! i'm from toronto canada and i'm living in madrid now, except not on holiday, i am studying here for a year, and all i can think about is how i can't buy the organic stuff i need, and how i can't get my favourite organic dark chocolate without soy lecithin, and stuff like that.
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Re: Dying for Dairy
What's really good, is 1cup soymilk, with 2 bananas, some molasses (1-2 TB), and ground up dates, or maple syrup in smoothie form. Damn, I could slam a gallon of that stuff!
Molasses actually makes the soymilk taste somewhat chocolatey, not sure why.
Probably adding chocolate syrup to it would really rock.
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Re: Dying for Dairy
I agree with Artichoke47 - go on YouTube and look for videos about animal cruelty (if you search for Animal Liberation Front you get some good ones), or there are pro-animal websites that offer the same footage. I can hardly stand to watch them because it tears me apart and i cry and cry and cry...BUT, when you just can't get over a craving, it will definitely remind you why it's just not worth it. In fact, you'll probably be completely turned off. I'm not the type who can watch those things very often at all, but I force myself to whenever I start to feel lazy about my ethics. It's an instant craving killer...
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Re: Dying for Dairy
Maybe try ice cream instead? There's a brand of ice cream called 'Swedice Glace' and they sell flavours of Vanilla, Strawberry and Chocolate, I got mine from Tesco but they also sell them in health shops.. also apparently the nestle icecream 102 dalmations is vegan too.. I'd suggest those, or even melting them a bit so there more similar in a liquid sense to yoghurt!
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Re: Dying for Dairy
Quote:
Korn
An interesting aspect of Breaking the Food Seduction, is that he suggests people to try to plan only 3 weeks ahead to begin with, and make a decision afterwards. So much happens in three weeks, that if someone is able to drop old habits for 3 weeks, most likely they will decide to continue.
...and here' a link to an article based around the same observations Breaking The Food Seduction is based upon:
Breaking the Food Seduction
Some people think that they actually need eg. cheese or yogurt, and it seems like a natural step # 1 is to understand that humans don't need mother's milk from other animals, and to find new, vegan ways to get the nutrients they have relied on animal products for in the past.
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
Quote:
Wildflower
Sorry, I just saw that you posted again saying you don't yet feel comitted. In that case, why not just try to cut down on dairy/eggs instead of forbidding them completly? It seems you know you want to go vegan, you just aren't ready yet. There is nothing to say it has to be all or nothing for you. You can cut out eggs/dairy from what you eat every day, and still allow yourself to eat it sometimes, as a treat, when eating away from home, etc.
IMO, it's whatever works for you. Every little bit counts, and if you are more likely to stick with a plan that allows a little dairy now and then, that is still better for your health, animals and the environment than eating it every meal a day.
I just want to say that I found what you said here, and in the post prior to this, extremely helpful. I'm transitioning to veganism myself, but I can't go cold tofu, and the idea of not being able to do it all the way at first has been giving me agida (sp?). I love the way you've outlined giving up dairy gradually; it seems so smart to me! And I love what you say about it not being all or nothing. I'm not sure why exactly, but that was just a hugely comforting thing to see in print! I think the main thing for is that I don't think of it as a sacrifice. I don't feel like I'm giving anything up by not eating eggs straight (I've had to the past few days and frankly it's been driving me crazy) but there are somethings that are less obvious that I am going to have to rethink in order to give up without feeling like I'm "giving up" anything.
Anyway, I just wanted to say that I really appreciated what you said. I think I'll have a much better transition to veganism if take the time I need to do it well, and if I don't spend time beating myself up for not going all the way immediately!
And just to contribute to the more current discussion, my motivation is animal rights first, and personal health...
um, a very distant second? I've never been particularly health concious aside from a desire to loose excess poundage. I am, however, discovering a new found interest in nutrition. It's more like a side-effect for me though, not the catalyst.
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy
If you miss cheese, try getting the book "the Uncheese Cookbook" by Joanne Stepaniak. I have both editions, but haven't used the 2nd one much. 1st one is great. Some ingredients may seem foreign, but once you find a source, it's easy. Nutritional yeast and agar-agar may seem expensive, but a little goes a long way. In every health food store I've seen agar-agar, it's a fortune, but you can find great deals online in huge packages that can last for years.
If you miss milk, there's some tasty soymilks out there (and not-so-tasty). If you try one you don't like, don't give up. Different brands taste very different from each other. My personal favorite is Silk and 8th Continent. Great to drink alone or for recipes calling for milk.
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Re: Vegetarian having a hard time giving up dairy?
I think I might invest in that book, cheese is the thing I found the hardest to give up, even though the very thought of what it is is disgusting, it was melted cheese and cakes! I still crave cheese when I've got a hangover.
I don't think yeast flakes are too expensive, I suppose most vegan store cupboard things can be, but once you've bought them they can last a while.