No, I've been vegan for 10 years and I've been tested twice over the past few years and my results came back normal as were my mineral levels which were all high:)
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No, I've been vegan for 10 years and I've been tested twice over the past few years and my results came back normal as were my mineral levels which were all high:)
Pardon my curiosity, but how was the diagnosis made? I'm asking because doctors are often guessing (which pretty much is what people do when they are making their own self-diagnosis). Some doctors simply assume that if you are a vegan, you lack B12, although many of the symptoms of B12 deficiency (eg. tingling fingers) overlap symptoms of other issues. Then there's the myth that all people who go vegan have high B12 levels, which they can keep relying on for months/years (even if they have no B12 intake), while studies show that circa 40% of all non-vegans have low B12 levels. And of course, there's the aspect of people who would have had enough B12 in their bodies to rely on for years, if it wasn't for their "B12 unfriendly" lifestyle and habits.
Well put Stephen! I totally agree.
Darkangel. It is more important to take vitD for osteoporosis then calcium.
You should really read about it. Most people have a lack of vit D and it causes osteoporosis.
Further more I strongly believe that every vegan that doesn't take B12 is taking a dangerous and unnecessary risk.
I had low B12 when I was a vegetarian and Not when I was a vegan. I supplement every day.
Also I would like to say that if you have absoption problems: shots are easy. You do not necessarily have to put them in the muscle. You can learn to easily give yourself shots under the skin.
What does this actually mean? That humans can't absorb the B12 manufactured in their digestive system, it's like looking at a very small part of the whole, big and complex B12 issue and somehow suggest that humans, unlike other animals, aren't able to absorb the B12 that's manufactured in their digestive system and suggest that this is the main B12 related "problem" with being vegan. Very misleading, and IMHO it only confirms the old myth that humans (from nature's side) either needs to eat animals or pills to survive. There's no scientific evidence for this.
What do they mean with omnivores? Probably not carnivores...? If they mean omnivorous humans, that's wrong - both because lots of humans don't get the B12 they need even if they consume a LOT of animal products every day, and lots of humans get B12 - not from eating animals - but by comsuming dairy products. There are also all the threads in this subforum about vegan B12 sources...Quote:
Omnivores get their B12 through eating other animals.
Due to some of the myths about vegans and B12, veganism does not have such a good name among some (not very well-informed) health enthusiats. If we aren't capable of raising veganism above these old myths, veganism is never going to be widespread.Quote:
to make sure veganism keeps its well deserved good name amongst health enthusiasts
One way of keeping these myth alive is to indirectly indicate that omnis always have good B12 levels (even so good that they can survive on them for years after going vegan), and that the only way to get B12 is from eating animals. Bob & Jenna Torres' intensions are probably the best - but IMHO this little quote from their book has a very misleading function. It keeps old myths alive, which is worrisome since it seems to be the only thing mentioned about B12 in that book.
I have to disagree with you here, since I find it "un-natural" (for humans) both to eat other animals and to have a lifestyle that would rely on pills. We don't need to dive into this, since we already have several threads about the topic, but I'm pretty sure that most people (not knowing that both vegans and non-vegans may need B12 supplements, and why they may need them) will think that a if one diet (omnivorous) requires supplements, and another (vegan) doesn't - the one that requires supplements is un-natural.Quote:
There is nothing unnatural about taking B12 supplements. In effect, this is all omnis are doing by eating other animals!
Not that 'natural is always good, unnatural is always wrong', but you hopefully know what I mean. :-)
Did you see this thread?
Is oral B12 as effective as intramuscular injections?
Some other, related threads:
Vegan/non-vegan: Does 'natural' matter?
B12: How natural is the vegan diet?
I gave blood samples, and they were analysed. I don't trust doctors for everything, but I was feeling tingling fingers, shortness of breath, migraines, fatigue and slight chest pains. Then I was told advised to take B12 supplements, and after 4 days I am starting to feel somewhat better.
It seems odd to be fully of the opinion that B12 deficiency isn't a big deal for some vegans, when it does seem to be at least fairly common. There's nothing shameful about it, I just feel daft for neglecting my B12 intake for so long. Now I'm putting right and I'm able to move on with a lifestyle that I'm happy with.
B12 in food from animal sources, or B12 in supplement form - I'm quite satisfied with the choice I've made to continue the lifestyle I love and that I feel is right for myself, the environment and other species :)
And I'm quite aware that many omnis have low B12 levels too. It's clearly more difficult for vegans to obtain a necessary amount of B12 than omnis though unless they really on fortified foods.
Again - pardon my curiosity, but you started to take B12 after some reading on Friday, and also saw a doctor late last week who took some tests - did you get the results immediately? Was it B12 tests, MMA, homocysteine? I'm asking because while you may be everything from mis-diagnosed to dramatically B12 deficient, it sounds like it could be another assumption-based statement from your doctor, because real tests (B12, MMA, homocysteine) normally have to be sent away, meaning that it will take some working days (often circa a week) before you get the results. If you started to take B12 on Friday, and already feel better, it's quite likely that you have been/are B12 deficient.
Trying to understand what you mean here.... who is it that is "fully of the opinion that B12 deficiency isn't a big deal for some vegans"? ;-)Quote:
It seems odd to be fully of the opinion that B12 deficiency isn't a big deal for some vegans, when it does seem to be at least fairly common.
Did you see the B12 in plants? subforum? :-)Quote:
B12 in food from animal sources, or B12 in supplement form
Or if you have symptoms that may indicate B12 deficiency, which is what happened to me. I have had numerous tests to find out why I had such pain and numbness in my hands and a new GP at my surgery decided to do a full blood count as he thought it might be B12 deficiency.Quote:
As far as I'm aware, the NHS will only specifically test for B12 if your haemoglobin's low or your blood's otherwise abnormal.
I've had the hand problems on and off for years, since before I became vegan and, sadly, some of the damage appears to be irreversable. I'm on my loading dose of B12 at the moment then more blood tests but I have seen some improvement.
I did say under the skin, not in the muscle
I voted "no/never tested" as I've not been vegan long enough to reasonably require testing or to show any symptoms if I am to ever have such. I'm making an effort to not have it come up.
I've never had a B12 deficiency caused by my vegan diet.... and also when I was on my lacto ovo vegetarian diet before going vegan.
My friend has an iron AND B12 deficiency & she eats meat. Goes to show that it can happen to anyone, regardless of what their diet is.
actually i have a really high b12 levels (on the top of the scale). i eat alot of cornflakes...:P
mmmmmmmmmm cornflakes :D
are you serious?? I have started a little excel spreadsheet to calculate all the vits/minerals that I eat per day (sad I know, but i like to keep an eye on what i'm eating now and again) and all I can say is thank goodness the B vitamins are water soluble coz I always go way-way over the RDA on all of them...I find them really easy to eat (no supliments) and I also have trouble keeping my iron down (it's bad to take too much).
oh no....too much iron is worse than not enough!! look it up on Google. You should have about 15mg per day (as a woman), I always seem to exceed that - I find it hard as all my fav foods are high in iron (mainly green veg and nuts/beans).
have a look at this link: http://vitamins-minerals.suite101.co...on_in_the_diet
and here:
How much is too much?Too much iron can be toxic to the body. It can
cause nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, or
constipation. Over a long period of time, too
much iron in the body can damage the liver. In
addition, too much iron from supplements can
reduce the amount of zinc that is absorbed.You should not get more than 45 mg of ironper day from food and supplements.
edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/FY/FY21700.pdf
Daffodil, according to what I've found out, it's difficult/impossible to increase your B12 levels above the RDA as a vegan without supplementing or eating fortified foods. And fortified foods = supplements.
tombenarye1234 - if you care for animals, the worst thing you probably could do for them is to become an unhealthy vegan, isn't it? That would only lead to people seeing a diet that doesn't include animal products as an unhealthy, unnatural choice..... so please just remain healthy! ;-)
i do blood test every year and everything is perfectly well. if i'll see problems in my annual checkup, i'll change my diet.
actually i think it's even better that way. people see most vegan as 'health fricks'. and they figure if they go vegan, they'll need to take their nutrition very very seriously, and they don't want that.
i'm a living example that you can be vegan, eat only what you like, and still be healthy.
Sure, I'm all for killing the myth about vegans having to rely more on supplements than non-vegans... the truth is probably the opposite. Still, it's important to acknowledge that the levels of B12 are strongly reduced in today's food due to a lot of reasons that has nothing to do with veganism (nutrient depleted soil, not eating fresh food and all that).Quote:
be vegan, eat only what you like, and still be healthy
Not all B12 deficiencies are detectable in your blood. So I would take a supplement if I were you...
wendy: why? i feel perfectly fine... and i get plenty of b12 from cornflakes (a mere 30 gram of cornflakes have 51% of the recommended daily income. and i eat more than 60 grams a day) that's why i've got really high b12 levels...
korn: i'll keep that in mind :)
So in my case at least....not all doctors are useless :)[/QUOTE]
I take it all back!!!! some doctors are useless!!!
After weeks of vitamin tabs and major changes in my life style..tongue still not right! Went back to doc's,saw a different doctor....Im not vitamin B dificient at all :mad: turns out its something totally different!! :mad:
Hi
Where do you want case studies posting? Ive been vegan for 24 years and have struggled with B12 deficiency that wasnt initialy diagnosed. I have had breathing problems, anxiety, and recurrent ulcers. I think this isnt so unusal for vegans though. This has been diagnosed with blood samples from doctor.
Interestingly I was also diagnosed with suspected iodine deficiency just after my daughter was born 11 years ago too. This cant be diagnosed with blood tests though.
To my best knowledge, cutting down on alcohol consumption- just stop it. reduced the destruction of B12 in the system
I've yet to speak to someone who's volunteered information about a B12 deficiency of which they're aware. Although, my wife related to me last week that one of her colleagues has been diagnosed with B12 deficiency. Interestingly, the person in question is totally omni with a apparently healthy diet.
gutts
Im quite happy to volunteer about B12 deficieny, if it can help vegans be aware of possible problems that they can encouter in their health so that they take the very easy steps of taking suplements.
For me the health roblems were really scary, I had ulcers once a quarter so that for 4 months of every year I couldnt eat properly (they would eat into the side of my mouth and make sleeping and talking difficult too), my breathing became a real problem so from being someone who was able to race the local funicular up a 1:4 hill during my lunchtimes I became someone who had to pause walking up stairs to catch my breath. This obviously took a while, becasue it took ages to diagnose. But many people give up on being vegan when they have a health implication, but the message needs to be take a suplement, especialy if you are female or you could get ill.
My mother is B12 deficient. She is an omni. She is so ill with it she has shots every three months. It's interesting reading this thread because she was also asked about her alcoholism. My mother has been tee-total her whole life and can't abide the smell of alcohol! But she will not take supplements. I gave up trying to persuade her in the end.
Anyway, I was wondering does anyone know if genetics makes you more prone to a deficiency? If my mother has it, are my chances altered at all? I take a daily supplement anyway, and I am also trying to incorporate the right foods into my daily diet, but I'd still be interested to know. Thanks x
I am being tested for this amongst other things. The doctor didn't mention it but I thought why they were sticking a needle in me they may as well check my B12 levels too.
"...control of the expression of disease with diet counters the belief that genetics determines that we shall get the diseases of our forebears..." Somewhere in this article
Dr. T. Colin Campbell's: The China Study: Reducing Risk of Disease through a Vegan Diet- 2
the doc explains:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvA55xj8iMI
Hi Blueberry,
I've just been told by my doctor that I am B12 deficient. I have to be tested again in 4 weeks time and in the meantime I am to take B12 supplements.
My mother sufferred from pernicious anaemia, she was a meat eater and also NEVER drank alcohol. I asked the doctor if pernicious anaemia was hereditary and he said it might make it more likely that I would be B12 deficient.
I was tested in 2006 and was found then to have low levels of B12, but a subsequent test said my levels were normal and yet I didn't take any supplements etc that time. :undecided:
I am a bit worried as I have been feeling the effects of a B12 deficiency lately...........dizziness, tingling in my fingers, confusion, memory problems etc but I don't put this down to my vegan diet. I think I would have had this absorption problem regardless of what I ate.
That's too bad, Sandra, but now it's been picked up I'm sure you'll get it sorted. Hope the supplements work but if not you can get an injection can't you?
Thanks Harpy, yes he said I might need injections if my next blood tests still show it's low. My mum developed pernicious anaemia when she was in her 50's (as I am now) and had an injection every 3 months for the rest of her life.I am really worried about it, and it didn't help that he kept going on about getting B12 from meat. My mind went blank and I couldn't think of where I actually got it from in my diet. I do use some soya milk and yogurt but not a great deal so I'm hoping that by taking the supplements that will correct the problem. :undecided:
The injections don't sound too big a deal if the worst comes to the worst. Your mum got on OK with them did she?
I get some vitamin B12 from my copious consumption of yeast extract but I do try and remember to take a supplement now and then as well. If one has pernicious anaemia though I think one can eat it until one's blue in the face and still not absorb it?