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Re: Circumcision or no circumcision?
Quote:
harpy
I believe people in America often do it for "hygienic" reasons? Washing seems to be a good alternative in that case.
That made me giggle. haha. Personally, i don't see how it is more hygenic and i read somewhere that men with circumcisions are more succeptable to urinary tract infections or something.
I think medical reasons then yeah, that's fine. (i guess religious reasons in a way, though i am personally against religion).
But, my personal view... the foreskin is there for some reason, i don't go choppin off nostrils or whatever like innit.
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Re: Circumcision or no circumcision?
Quote:
zorbed
But, my personal view... the foreskin is there for some reason, i don't go choppin off nostrils or whatever like innit.
Quality.
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Re: Circumcision or no circumcision?
I hate circumcison, i think that it is one most terrible crime,clear sadism,outrage.
Sorry, but i like to put all humans in the jail who allow circumcision.
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Re: Circumcision or no circumcision?
Quote:
mercysky100
I hate circumcison, i think that it is one most terrible crime,clear sadism,outrage.
Sorry, but i like to put all humans in the jail who allow circumcision.
I do wonder why it's legal to circumcise a baby against his will, but if you do it to an adult against his will, it's assault.
I also wonder why it's legal to circumcise a baby against his will, but if you cut off your baby's pinky finger, it's child abuse. It is a very strange societal construct that does not allow you to harm or injure your baby in any way, except that one thing.
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Re: Circumcision or no circumcision?
I honestly had never thought about this before, but i really see everyone's point now. I haven't been with too many guys, but they have all been circumcised. To any guys (in the US/Canada, or anywhere else where the majority have the procedure) who have not had the procedure done, do you ever feel self conscious around women, especially the first time they see it? It would not bother me at all, but I am just curious, and since I have never actually seen an uncircumcised penis, I might be caught off guard.
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Re: Circumcision or no circumcision?
blimey i didn't realise how common it is there!
i think it's on a par with docking a puppy's tail (they also use the hygeine card for that sometimes) and should be banned!.
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Re: Circumcision or no circumcision?
Cobweb, around 70-80% of American men in their 20's or older are circumcised, but the current circumcision rate of newborns is down to 60%.
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Re: Circumcision or no circumcision?
Quote:
Mahk
around 70-80% of American men in their 20's or older are circumcised
And perhaps that could point to why there might be such a thought variance on the topic, between older and younger generations. :confused:
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Re: Circumcision or no circumcision?
Quote:
fondducoeur
I honestly had never thought about this before, but i really see everyone's point now. I haven't been with too many guys, but they have all been circumcised. To any guys (in the US/Canada, or anywhere else where the majority have the procedure) who have not had the procedure done, do you ever feel self conscious around women, especially the first time they see it? It would not bother me at all, but I am just curious, and since I have never actually seen an uncircumcised penis, I might be caught off guard.
Hehe.
I'm in the US, and I am confident around women in all spheres. If I was not confident, I'd imagine that it would be issue, but then again, so would a lot of other things (including the fact that I have the worst / most awesome / uneaven haircut of all time).
If I was really uncomfortable, I'd a be chump. And I could also get surgery to make me like everyone else in the US. And I'd still be a chump for trying to be like everyone else instead of being myself.
Luckily, I ain't no chump. ;)
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Re: Circumcision or no circumcision?
Apparently, a man can encourage a foreskin (of sorts) to grow back. I saw a documentary about it featuring some men who were furious to have had their foreskins removed when they were young and basically wanted it back!
All they did was stroke and pull their penis, not for gratification, but to stretch the skin. After some time of this the skin had formed a new foreskin.
It sounds kind of funny, but it wasn't really. These men really felt assaulted and that they'd had something taken that shouldn't have been.
My partner had a circumcision in his late 30s. It's quite common for the foreskin to become tight and even tear slightly. It makes sex a bit painful. He's never looked back since having it ... but then it was his choice, and it was for medical reasons.
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Re: Circumcision or no circumcision?
Quote:
Mahk
Cobweb, around 70-80% of American men in their 20's or older are circumcised, but the current circumcision rate of newborns is down to 60%.
It is thanks for jewish who have very great influence in the USA.It is horrible, thanks for jewish influence lots European countrys cant forbit circumcision or have fear to do it. Only China can do it :D
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Re: Circumcision or no circumcision?
Quote:
mercysky100
It is thanks for jewish who have very great influence in the USA.It is horrible, thanks for jewish influence lots European countrys cant forbit circumcision or have fear to do it. Only China can do it :D
Um, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that English is not your native language.
Only 2% of the US population is Jewish. I don't think the 70-80% circumcision rate in the past decades here had anything to do with that. It is more of a cultural thing and not a religious thing for the vast majority of parents who decide to do it. Jews don't pressure non-Jews to circumcise, at all.
Also, addressing the entire thread as a whole, I don't think chopping off pinky fingers or severing part of the backbone (tail docking) are good analogies to circumcision. Slicing off nostrils (as was said earlier) or earlobes would be more analogous since no actual bone is being cut. (no pun intended)
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Re: Circumcision or no circumcision?
Quote:
Mahk
Also, addressing the entire thread as a whole, I don't think chopping off pinky fingers or severing part of the backbone (tail docking) are good analogies to circumcision. Slicing off nostrils (as was said earlier) or earlobes would be more analogous since no actual bone is being cut. (no pun intended)
Granted, but chopping off a newborn's earlobes or nostrils would definitely constitute child abuse, and I think it is very strange that chopping off a newborn's foreskin is not considered the same.
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Re: Circumcision or no circumcision?
It is very much like removing tonsils to me, since they have a function that wasn't always realized, like foreskin, and it is removed to prevent that part from infection. The difference, is that a tonsillectomy is not done on newborns, and only done with painkillers. We are finally realizing that tonsillectomies are unnecessary in the majority of cases, so they are now usually performed only when there is a greater need. This is how circumcision should be; done later in life, only if needed, and with anesthesia.
What I find most disgusting is how the foreskin is sold to cosmetics companies so women can have smoother faces. (Can you say, "EW?!") Care to slab baby foreskin on yourself, madame? It's just as gross at those placenta shampoos.
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Re: Circumcision or no circumcision?
Warning: The following post is graphic and discusses painful but factual procedures, read at your own risk.
I think it was Korn and Harpy who mentioned about a year back how much more severe and traumatic female circumcision, aka FGM, female genital mutilation, is and I whole heartedly agree. Unlike typical male circumcision done to newborns, where the victim will have no recollection of the event (or the pain) in later life and still have fully functional genitalia and sexuality, victims of FGM are young girls or teenagers being held down by ten other women without the use of anesthesia while the practitioner (unskilled, using non-sterile equipment, and not in a medical environment unlike US male circumcisions) uses primitive instruments such as cutting sheers or pieces of glass to perform a clitorectomy and/or infibulation.
In researching the prevalence of US male circumcision for my post a couple of days ago I was shocked to discover that FGM is not only alive and well (despite being technically illegal in most countries) but is even going on in our own countries. According to the Foundation for Women’s Health, Research and Development (Forward), 279,500 women living in the UK, for example, have suffered FGM on British soil with 22,000 young girls living in families where it likely will be done to them too.
The problem is the people who do this don't see it as mutilation at all and wish it of their own daughters. It is all very disturbing to even contemplate.
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Re: Circumcision or no circumcision?
FGM is horrible. It is certainly a case of cultural customs being unethical. FGM is a practice that needs to be ended.
With that in mind, while male circumcision might not be as traumatic, it still needs to be addresses as an unneeded cosmetic cultural mutilation of young boys in the West. It might not stoop to the horrifying levels of FGM, but it is a practice that still should be stopped excepting dire medical need.
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Re: Circumcision or no circumcision?
I just cant comprehend why a parent would look at their new born son and think lets chop teh end of his penis off :hmm:
here is a clip from "Birth As We Know It" on circumcision, I had to watch it peeking out from behind my fingers.
It shows the acual operation so be warned before you click play.
[youtube]XmX6RdRNoqk[/youtube]
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Re: Circumcision or no circumcision?
i'll never forget the sight/sound of someone chopping off little puppies' tails, imo circumcision is exactly the same unless done for medical reasons where there are no other solutions.
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Re: Circumcision or no circumcision?
Pointless and cruel in my op.
My father still suffers flashbacks from being circumsised on the kitchen table, aged 7 years old
In the name of religious beleifs of his parents.
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Female Circumcision
I amjust interested in opinions that's all.
I am writing an essay on it and wondered if anyone had any knowledge,experience or would just like to share their thoughts:)
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Re: Female Circumcision
a terrible injustice made all the worse as it is perpetrated by women:mad:
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Re: Female Circumcision
Hmmm, in norway it has been discussed about checking all young girls down there to find out if its circumsided or not. To prevent it and to catch those who do that. If I remember it right ...
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Re: Female Circumcision
I agree female genital mutilation is deplorable - cruel and often dangerous - but I wouldn't blame the women particularly for perpetuating it. Mostly it happens in patriarchal societies, and ones where women don't get much of an education, as I understand it.
There are some brave women from those cultures who are campaigning to end it though.
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Re: Female Circumcision
Quote:
vava
a terrible injustice made all the worse as it is perpetrated by women:mad:
But it's also used by some men to control the women they feel they have dominion over.
Either way it is a barbaric and indefensible practice.
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Re: Female Circumcision
I watched a TV doc a while ago.
Young African girls in this one country would have this carried out as the norm.
Everyone of them look terrified and they certainly would not have received 'Westernised' standards of care.
It pissed me off.
Sugarmouse - try this for your essay:
http://www.womenofafrika.org/circumcision.htm
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Re: Female Circumcision
Quote:
harpy
I agree female genital mutilation is deplorable - cruel and often dangerous - but I wouldn't blame the women particularly for perpetuating it. Mostly it happens in patriarchal societies, and ones where women don't get much of an education, as I understand it.
I agree. I think it is a practice that is often defended by men and women for cultural and religious reasons which makes it all the more difficult to eliminate. I watched a film about it when I was studying Philosophy and Ethics and it is a barbaric operation to say the least. It makes me very angry to know that young girls are being mutilated in this way with parental consent.
(It is strange though how many people would condemn this practice but there are 18 year old girls getting breast implants in this country which also could be viewed as mutilation for cultural reasons, although it is consensual.)
(I think maybe it is 18 in the UK and 16 in America?)
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Re: Female Circumcision
Quote:
BlackCats
It is strange though how many people would condemn this practice but there are 16 year old girls getting breast implants in this country which also could be viewed as mutilation for cultural reasons, although it is consensual.
Are there? Well, I'd condemn that too, although as well as consent (albeit from a minor) they presumably at least have anaesthesia, hygiene and stuff like that.
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Re: Female Circumcision
Quote:
harpy
Are there? Well, I'd condemn that too, although as well as consent (albeit from a minor) they presumably at least have anaesthesia, hygiene and stuff like that.
Yes I know, I was just thinking about body mutilation and which forms are considered acceptable, I was just thinking aloud really.:D:o
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Re: Female Circumcision
There is the argument that one shouldn't impose standards from one's own culture on someone else's. However as vegans we're at least consistent since we daily reject a practice that's acceptable in our own culture, i.e. meat-eating.
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Re: Female Circumcision
It was touched on in the Tribal Wives prog on the telly. It was the village matriarch who carried out the circumcisions, under the sincerely held belief that without being circumcised women were unable to have babies. She seemed surprised and sceptical when the Western woman said that wasn't the case.
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Re: Circumcision or no circumcision?
Unfortunately my husband is circ'd, but no way, we'd never harm our children by cutting off any healthy parts of their bodies! It is insane some of the crazy reasons people in the US still use to try and justify it. IMO it's sexual abuse of an unconsenting minor.
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Re: Circumcision or no circumcision?
I had a painful accident the other day on my bike that proved to me that foreskin is there for a purpose: protection. Without that I'd be in a lot of pain!
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Re: Circumcision or no circumcision?
In former USSR was circumcision great crime.
In Finland is males and females circumcision banned,in denmark is banned only females circumcision.
Denmark have plan to ban males circumcision please send own support to danish parliament
e-mail: venstre@venstre.dk
E-mail: info@socdem.dk
E-mail: df@ft.dk
E-mail: konservative@konservative.dk
E-mail: sf@sf.dk
E-mail: radikale@radikale.dk
E-mail: enhedslisten@enhedslisten.dk
E-mail: nyalliance@nyalliance.dk
http://www.folketinget.dk/default.as...7-68D3A7955678}
http://www.folketinget.dk/default.as...D-21A6D7B181ED}
http://www.ft.dk/default.asp?id={05E...0-C8B74860893B}
----------------------------------------------------
http://theamericansentinel.com/2008/...cumcision-ban/
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Re: Circumcision or no circumcision?
Quote:
andy
i just cant comprehend why a parent would look at their new born son and think lets chop teh end of his penis off :hmm:
Here is a clip from "birth as we know it" on circumcision, i had to watch it peeking out from behind my fingers.
It shows the acual operation so be warned before you click play.
[youtube]xmx6rdrnoqk[/youtube]
what the hell was that!!!!!!
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Re: Circumcision or no circumcision?
the first time i saw a "modified" male genitalia... was at age 10, when we had swimming lessons at school. at the end of it, all of the boys went to the shower room (the girls to a seperate shower room), and took their clothes off.
and of course i couldnt help but look at everyone's penises around me :hmm:
i think we were around 13-15 boys, and one of us was circumcised. i have never seen anything like that before, and actually thought he had some sort of tumor down there or sth. back then i didn't know what it looks like when you have no skin around it.
actually, the thought that this was a disease lasted for a very long time.... until i was in my mid-teens and was introduced to american porn movies, where every man looks that way :confused:
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Re: Circumcision or no circumcision?
Quote:
John
And maybe human genitals are supposed to be ugly and stinky so that if you put your face down there, it's because you love the person.
That last part was so genius! I never thought about it that way before... but it made me smile!:D
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Re: Circumcision or no circumcision?
Quote:
snivelingchild
What I find most disgusting is how the foreskin is sold to cosmetics companies so women can have smoother faces. (Can you say, "EW?!") Care to slab baby foreskin on yourself, madame? It's just as gross at those placenta shampoos.
WHAT!? WHO DOES THIS?! ARE YOU SHITTING ME?!:eek:
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Re: Circumcision or no circumcision?
I know some people think it's ok, but I would never mutilate my future son(s) like that. If he wants to be circumcised when he's an adult, that's up to him, but to me that would be equivalent to my parents chopping off my nipples when I was born. It's a minor procedure, sure, and not much immediate risk to my health, but the long-term psychological and physiological effects could range from nothing at all, to completely devastating. In the end, it's not the parents' place to choose, especially when leaving it alone is guaranteed to work out for the best in 99% of cases.
It's his body, and that's a major body modification.
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Re: Circumcision or no circumcision?
Well.. I had a Circumcision operation on Wednesday. I could not bring myself to watch it and I asked the doctors to put me to sleep (as opposed to local anesthesia) during the procedure. It was to rectify a medical condition and the NHS covered it. :) Since it was done with general anesthesia, the whole procedure since admission to recovery and discharge took about 6 hours.
I had to get it done due to tight-foreskin. It still hurts down there and I was told that the stitches will take about 3 weeks to dissolve. To be honest, I preferred the look before circumcision. I cringe when I now look down there. Its probably due to swelling and stitches, it looks worse than it should.
Can I ask, how is the sexual sensation with a post-Circumcised willy? Less or more? I have read reports that said some circumcised men strugged to feel pleasure during sex! :eek: Any thoughts?
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Re: Circumcision or no circumcision?
Obviously I can't answer the questions, but I wanted to say "get well soon". I'm sure swelling etc must be an issue so soon after the op.