Mahk, if you change the two asterisks in the link to two commas you'll be able to view the article.
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Mahk, if you change the two asterisks in the link to two commas you'll be able to view the article.
Thanks everyone - sorry about that. Have corrected original link.
The gist is that you might as well eat the cardboard packaging as eat the contents - not new, but this time an exec from a cereal manufacturer said as much :D
Harpy, Thanks for the link.
He actually said," "And the risk is, if you take the salt out, you might be better off eating the cardboard carton for taste."
High sugar, high salt breakfast cereal, which amounts to 75% of the UK market according to the survey mentioned in the article, is certainly not health food, but this doesn't condemn healthy ones such as whole grain varieties including Weetabix, one of my favorites. It is low fat, low sugar, low sodium, high fiber, organic, vegan, GMO free, and fortified with 8 vitamins and minerals. Alas, it has no vitamin D2, but the fortified soymilk I add provides at least some.
I'm still hoping someone here will think of a brand that has "D2" spelled out and written on the box. Anyone?
Mahk, I live in the US, and this is the cereal I normally eat: http://www.naturespath.com/products/.../optimum_power
along with Silk soymilk which is fortified with D2.
I just looked on the internet for a while, and still couldn't find info on the other cereals I eat (and feed the family): 365 raisin bran.
Regardless, I find it quite easy to get vitamin D from soymilk and orange juice (Tropicana has vegan vitamin D, the others rarely do). More info on that here (read all the way to the bottom): http://www.vegblog.org/archive/2004/11/03/the-oj-post/
Sorry, I have some bad news, my friend. Tropicana has revised their "vitamin D3 is synthesized" story over the years, even though their actual source remains exactly the same I assume ( a company called DSM as is mentioned by the last entry from your link). Check out this email:
kpickell 03-13-06, 11:58 PM
Tropicana wrote back:
___________________
Rachel:
We appreciate the opportunity to respond to your concerns about the Vitamin D in Tropicana Pure Premium Orange Juice plus Calcium.
The form of vitamin D added to Tropicana products is Vitamin D3. Vitamin D3 is considered synthetic and the starting raw material is cholesterol which is
derived from lanolin. The concentration of Vitamin D in our orange juice is
about 15 parts per billion. Therefore, the presence is insignificant.
That's quite a different answer from the one I got last year. (see the link posted earlier). I think I'll contact them with a complaint.
Source [read post #25]
I also independently looked into this myself a few months ago and posted about it in our orange juice/ animal derivatives thread. "Synthetic" doesn't mean the raw material they use isn't an animal derived compound and they also can call it "vegetarian" because like milk and eggs you don't have to kill a sheep to get its wool (although they do often shear off their nipples in the process and museling is still used in many countries, but hey, sheep were put here on the planet to make us wool, right?) :rolleyes: ;)
Don't feel bad. We've all been there. I fell into the exact same trap but in regarding Grape Nuts cereal. I read on the web that it was "vegan" and bought it. Turns out Peta has a whole web page of "I can't believe it's vegan" foods including all sorts of cereals which they haven't scrutinized for the source of Vitamin "D"; they, like Tropicana, think small amounts "don't count".
I think I'm just about to throw in the towel on Vitamin D.
edit to add: Here is yet more evidence their D3 supplier is DSM:
DSM products are used in a wide range of end markets and applications including human and animal nutrition and health, cosmetics and pharmaceuticals. It is the world's largest manufacturer of bulk vitamins, which are sold to food and supplement companies for use in fortified foods and dietary supplements. DSM vitamins can be found in familiar brands such as Centrum, One-a-Day, Total, Quaker Oatmeal and Tropicana juices.
Source.
You can buy vegan vitamin D supplements though, can't you? The Vegan Society's V-1 supplement has vitamin D2 I believe.
Is there some advantage to getting it from fortified foods rather than a supplement? Or is the problem that animal-based vitamin D is hard to avoid in breakfast cereals? Presumably things like muesli are OK.
Yes (and I do) but that feels like an admission that a true vegan diet is indeed intrinsically vitamin deficient, at least regarding vitamin D, that is. Getting vitamin D through food, albeit fortified, just "seems" better to me, I can't give you a rational argument why though.:) Relying on the sun for vitamin D is not an option for many months of the year where I live.
Here in the US it is not hard, it is impossible to find fortified cereal which uses D2, not D3. I don't want to have to avoid all fortified cereals in general, perhaps 80-90% of the US market, just because of this. I want vitamin D fortification, it's lacking in my vegan diet, but I want it to be D2 of course!Quote:
Or is the problem that animal-based vitamin D is hard to avoid in breakfast cereals?
Interestingly I see the Vegan Society, UK, has rescinded the words "some breakfast cereals" from the sentence I quoted in post #2 of this thread from their Statement on Rickets and Vitamin D. It now reads:
"Vitamin D is found in many vegan foods including margarine and some fortified non-dairy milks. "
I wonder if that has anything to do with this thread?:rolleyes:
Margarine would also be incorrect, BTW, at least regarding the only US brand sold where I live [or perhaps anywhere in the US, I'm not sure]. The only US vegan margarine available to me, Earth Balance (also called Soy Garden), contains no vitamin D of any kind, although I see the UK's Pure brand does have some D2.
Any of you in the UK know of a cheap flat for rent?;)
Thanks for the info on Tropicana.
Well, there's still always fortified soymilk.
Thank goodness I like soymilk (mostly on whatever vegan cereal I can find). I just looked at the two different brands of soymilk I happen to have on hand, both fortified with D2: Organic EdenSoy and the other VitaSoy. One had 20% DV per cup serving and the other 10%. Hmm, by my math I'd have to drink five cups of one, or ten of the other, to get my daily allowance. That's way more than I would tend to consume per day and it's D2 not D3 so I hear it isn't as bio-available and that you need around 60% more than you would D3. 16 glasses per day, yeah right.:rolleyes: Not happening. Ugh, vitamin pills seem unavoidable during the winter months for me. Oh well.
I drink Silk, which has 30% of vitamin D, if that helps. It's available everywhere I've been in the US, even around here, which is about 5 miles from where EdenSoy is harvested/processed/etc.
Yes, I buy Silk too. Thanks for the tip. Whole Foods Duper Market near me has a huge selection of options. When I get a chance I'll read 'em all and report back on my findings.
Right now I am making low-sodium hot and sour soup and it has mushrooms in it (although I'm using fresh shiitake, not the best kind for vitamin D I've since learned). One cup of regular cooked (or raw) mushrooms has 100% the DV of vitamin D!
Mushrooms are my new friend.:)
[Except I've heard some folklore quality data that suggests one should be concerned with their hydrazine content. I suspect it could be one of the many things idiots on the internet don't understand, i.e. without specifying concentration level, stating that the food merely "has some" is meaningless. Lots of healthy foods we eat contain arsenic, lead, cyanide etc. but at concentrations that don't disturb humans. Anyone know more, from a credible medical source that is, regarding hydrazine in mushrooms?]
I probably eat some d supplement as part of my diet(e.g in soya milk), but it's not something I pay attention to for either me or my children. I was always of the opinion that we get enough from sunlight as we walk and cycle a lot all year round. My understanding was that you get vit D from sunlight and not necessarily sunshine.
Does anyone know of any research on the subject?
There's some research suggesting it may be hard to get enough vitamin D from sun in the winter in northern countries. There's a summary here
http://www.vegansociety.com/food/nutrition/vitaminD.php
...unfortunately without any refs to peer-reviewed studies, but there are some in the Walsh book referred to, which I can look up later for you if you like.
Of course, there are varying definitions of what 'enough' is, and maybe if you're out a lot in the summer you can store up enough to see you through the winter.
ETA this article refers to a recent study http://health.usnews.com/articles/he....html?PageNr=1
^ I'm not much of an expert on the legal definition of "organic" but if the calcium and vitamins added are themselves organic then perhaps it is allowed?:confused:
http://www.vitasoy-usa.com/stuff/con...niccartons.jpg
the US definition of organic is probably different to the UK. i don't think calcium and vitamins are allowed to be classed as organic and therefore the addition of them makes a product non-organic, in this country at least.
I think besides the difference of our two countries is also that there seems to be more than one body that can certify a product as "organic", at least here.
http://www.edenfoods.com/store/image...oom/100210.jpg
This one's label reads: "OCIA Certified Organic" whereas the first one was "USDA Organic" and elsewhere on the panel "Certified Organic by Quality Assurance International".
I found a fantastic on line calculator to determine how many hours one needs for vitamin D synthesis by sunlight exposure. Before you go there you have to determine your latitude and longitude.
This can help.
And your skin color as determined by a scientific scale called the "Fitzpatrick skin type 1-6" [black people need 5 to 10 times the amount of sun exposure compared to white people it seems.]
This can help.
You may have to wing some of the data entry points. I figure in the winter when I wear a hat and usually gloves my face exposure is about 10% of my body surface. Don't forget to insert a date that represents the winter, not summer:
http://nadir.nilu.no/~olaeng/fastrt/VitD.html
[this is a revised link]
You can use a website like this which is for working out burn damage for body surface - http://www.rch.org.au/clinicalguide/cpg.cfm?doc_id=5250
That's great Risker! Seems I was overestimating my winter (face only) exposure quite a bit. Only 3.5 by that chart and maybe an extra 1% for the front neck. Going gloveless gains 6% more (1.5*4).
I just did the calculator and it didn't work. Came back saying "0 Hours :0 minutes" but then I tried the alternate link and it worked so I've revised my link in that earlier post. This new link doesn't ask for skin color, BTW.
results: 14 hours of mid day (?!) cloudless sun, for January 1st 2008, walking on dry concrete, Dobson thingy corrected to 303 for 01/01/2008, sea level, face and front neck only exposure. Oh well, vitamin D pills are a must for the winter then.
The number of lives saved by people doubling their sun exposure might be 10 times higher than the number of fatal skin cancers that would result, according to a study conducted by researchers at the Institute for Cancer Research in Oslo, Norway, and published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
For anyone who still does not understand the vitamin D and sunlight issue, in simple terms:
The right kind of sunlight puts vitamin D into your body.
Its that simple.
It is that simple if you also include some relatively detailed information about how long vitamin D can be stored in the body (under various degrees of sun exposure), whether sun exposure in the winter is un-efficient in Northern/Southern-most parts of of the world even for people who work outdoors all day, to which degree the statements about how much we need are based on face exposure only or '40% of the skin-exposure', to which degree vitamins generated in plants that are exposed to sun drying is valuable/durable for humans and a few more things - like include a reminder about sunscreen preventing the sun's vitamin D generating effect. :DQuote:
Its that simple
That's why I wrote "the right kind of sunlight"!
Thanks for the clarification.
:bigsmile:
Here's some more info about vitamin D, plants and sunlight:
From http://books.google.com/books?id=a8M...um=7&ct=result
Quote:
As much as 95% of most humans' vitamin D requirements comes from casual exposure to light.
From http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller25.html
Quote:
Except for oily fish like (wild-only) salmon, mackerel, and sardines and cod liver oil – and also sun-dried mushrooms – very little vitamin D is naturally present in our food. Milk, orange juice, butter, and breakfast cereal are fortified with vitamin D, but with only 100 IU per serving. One would have to drink 200 8-oz. glasses of milk to obtain as much vitamin D as skin makes fully exposed to the noonday sun.
http://books.google.com/books?id=--X...sult#PPA149,M1Quote:
A majority of Americans have insufficient or deficient vitamin D blood levels. In veterans undergoing heart surgery at the Seattle VA hospital, I found that 78% had a low vitamin D level: 12% were insufficient; 56%, deficient; and 10% were severely deficient.
Table: Influence of Sunlight on Vitamin D Content in Mushrooms (page 203)Quote:
There are few naturally available dietary sources. [...] Less dependable sources include butter, egg yolks, sweet potatoes (yams), sun dried mushrooms, especially the shiitake and reishi varieties, dandelion greens, as well as margarine, milk and breakfast cereals, some of which are fortified with vitamin D. Parsley and alfalfa are said to contain small quantities of the vitamin.
Mushroom processing to develop vitamin D
Quote:
More than 40 percent of American adults are deficient in vitamin D (Allen, 2004). Vitamin D is important for calcium absorption and bone health, and vitamin D deficiency can lead to softening of the bone in children and adults as well as osteoporosis in adults. Moreover, vitamin D has recently been linked to a significantly reduce the risk of breast cancer, colon cancer, and prostate cancer, autoimmune disease, and cardiovascular disease (Holick, 2004).
[...]
Vitamin D intake comes naturally from sunlight and a limited number of foods. Dependency of sunlight as a vitamin D source is compromised for those avoiding sunlight or using sun block to reduce the risk of skin cancer. Sunscreen with as little as a sun protection factor (SPF) of eight inhibits more than 95 percent of vitamin D production (Holick, 2004; Sayre and Dowdy, 2007). Melanin acts like a sun block inhibiting ultraviolet light (UV) from penetrating deep enough in the skin for vitamin D to be produced. Individuals with dark skin do not produce vitamin D at the same rate as those with lighter skin, and vitamin D deficiency in these population groups is a concern. However, lighter-skinned populations are more susceptible to skin cancer and need to limit sun exposure or wear sunscreen, so vitamin D deficiency among those with lighter skin are also at risk. Moreover, recent report stated that the elderly who are in living-assistance and nursing homes do not get enough sunlight and are at risk for vitamin D deficiency (Holick, 2001).
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1659193
http://themushroomlady.blogspot.com/...vitamin-d.htmlQuote:
Fresh common (Agaricus bisporus) and high-temperature mushrooms (A. bitorquis) were irradiated with ultraviolet-C (UV-C) for 0, 0.5, 1, and 2 h at 12 °C. Fresh common, shiitake (Lentinula edodes), and straw mushrooms (Volvariella volvacea) were irradiated with UV-B for 0, 0.5, 1, and 2 h at 12 °C. After UV-C irradiation for 2 h, vitamin D2 contents in common and high-temperature mushrooms increased from 2.20 and 4.01 μg/g of dry weight to 7.30 and 5.32 μg/g, respectively. After UV-B irradiation for 2 h, the vitamin D2 content in common mushrooms reached 12.48 μg/g. UV-B irradiation resulted in higher vitamin D2 conversion for common mushrooms. After UV-B irradiation for 2 h, vitamin D2 contents in shiitake and straw mushrooms increased from 2.16 and 3.86 μg/g to 6.58 and 7.58 μg/g, respectively. The increase rates in shiitake and straw mushrooms were not as high as in common mushrooms.
Quote:
The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in the USA has been seeking a natural, non-animal food, rich in Vitamin D. That led them to mushrooms. It has been demonstrated that when white button mushrooms are exposed to Ultraviolet B radiation, for a short period of time, the level of Vitamin D increases to levels many times the minimum daily requirement, i.e. 10 mcg. Normally, a serving** of white button mushrooms contains 18 IU (0.45 mcg.). Treated mushrooms contain over 80 mcg.***
Mushrooms show great promise as a natural, non-animal source of Vitamin D. That being the case, there are some hurdles to overcome before Super-D Mushrooms are featured in the produce section of supermarkets. The hurdles involve not only production-line technology and shelf-life, but also bio-availability of the vitamin. These hurdles are being addressed in Canada, the USA and Australia.
http://iotftraining.nci.nih.gov/calvo.html
The vitamin D levels of common varieties of mushrooms are listed below for a standard 100 g servingQuote:
Optimizing vitamin D and ergosterol content of white button and portabella mushrooms (Agaricus bisporus): Effects on innate immune response and mammary tumor development in rodents.
The IOFT Fellow's activity would in part be involved with a proposed study which examines the effects of commonly consumed mushrooms on breast tumor growth and development. Since ancient times many world cultures have prized mushrooms for their exotic taste and medicinal value. Mushrooms are nutritious containing 19-35% high biological quality protein and significant levels of fiber, thiamin, riboflavin, ascorbic acid, vitamin D2 and trace minerals .Mushrooms also contain non-nutritive substances such as ?-glucan, ergosterol, and chitin that have been shown to have anti-tumor, anti-angiogenic and immune response enhancing properties that promote health by preventing chronic diseases such as cancer. Mushrooms are the only natural dietary source of vitamin D2 commonly consumed in the US and Canada and they also contain a high amount of ergosterol or pre-vitamin D2, which when isolated from mushrooms has been shown to have anti-tumor actions. An adequate vitamin D intake is important to the prevention of cancer, infections and other chronic diseases, and this knowledge has been strengthened by several recent cross-sectional or longitudinal studies which demonstrate a significant association between estimates of vitamin D intake and reduction in cancer or other disease risk. Given these findings, vitamin D merits consideration for inclusion in the list of nutrients that could qualify a fruit, vegetable or grain product for a cancer health claim on its label. Moreover, several recent studies have identified a surprisingly high prevalence of vitamin D insufficiency in otherwise healthy adults in North America, which establishes a clear need for more vitamin D rich food sources.
The specific aim of this study is to ascertain if feeding white button mushrooms with optimized vitamin D2 content during early life and through sexual maturity is protective against the development and growth of mammary tumors in a rat model for carcinogen induced mammary cancer. The focus of this study is on the vitamin D2 and ergosterol content of mushrooms and involves exposing the mushrooms to short periods of ultraviolet light (UVB) or sunlight during harvesting to maximize the amount of vitamin D2 and ergosterol content, which is analogous to what happens in human skin upon exposure to sufficient UVB light. Circulating levels of 25(OH)D, the main indicator of vitamin D status, reflect contributions from dietary sources, both natural foods such as fungi (D2) and vitamin D3 from fatty fish and organ meats and vitamin D2 and D3 from fortified foods, and contributions from endogenous synthesis in the skin (D3). In most individuals the largest contributors to circulating 25(0H)D levels is from cutaneous synthesis, however environmental, seasonal, physiologic and behavioral factors are increasingly impairing the amount of vitamin D3 we can make through solar exposure. We have only recently recognized the significant need for more vitamin D rich foods in the US and Canadian food supply in order to maintain adequate serum levels of 25(OH )D to help prevent the development of chronic disease.
Vitamin D2 enhanced mushrooms - coming soon to consumers near you?
Quote:
Currently, dietary recommendations regarding vitamin D intake assume no sun exposure. Since many of us no longer live near the equator but rather live in city environments, our exposure to sunlight is limited. There is now a ground swell among some experts to increase the recommended Adequate Intake (AI) for vitamin D beyond the current range of 200 to 600 IU (depending on age) perhaps to a range between 1,000 and 2,000 IU [the Daily Value (DV) for labeling purposes is 400 IU].
And finally, from today's news:Quote:
A mushroom industry pilot study (Mushroom News May 2006), undertaken in response to research proposed by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) described below, has shown that mushrooms exposed to ultraviolet light (UVB or UVC) results in vitamin D levels that exceed the current Daily Value.
Light-treated mushrooms 'help' vitamin D deficiency
Sunbathing 'slows ageing process'
More here.Quote:
Sunbathing 'slows ageing process'
By Nic Fleming, Science Correspondent
Last Updated: 4:52PM GMT 09 Nov 2007
90 per cent of the body's intake of vitamin D is created by exposure to the sun
Sunbathing can slow the ageing process by up to five years, according to new research.
Scientists have found that people who avoid the sun, or have inadequate vitamin D in their diet, are subject to genetic damage associated with ageing and age-related illnesses.
The effect of the damage is so great that those who lack vitamin D - often called the "sunshine vitamin" because 90 per cent of the body's intake is created by exposure to the sun - were biologically five years older than those with the highest levels.
Lead researcher Dr Brent Richards, from King's College, London said: "These results are exciting because they demonstrate for the first time that people with high levels of vitamin D may age more slowly than people with lower levels.
"This helps to explain how vitamin D has a protective effect on age-related illnesses such as heart disease."
I've been concerned lately about vitamin D, not because of being vegan but because I've moved a lot north and I'm confused about how people here deal with the lack of sunshine in terms of vitamins. I'm used to southern CA, where there's more prolonged sunshine throughout the year, and "winter" doesn't really become noticeable until late December anyway.
I get 25-50% of daily recommended vit. D in fortified rice milk and stuff, and I know that some light penetrates the clouds, but I am always hooded (due to light sensitivity) and my left hand covered with a wrist brace so...how do people handle it, when I am used to getting lots of sunshine every day?
D2 is derived from plants, D3 is not. (The vitamin that comes from sunlight exposure is D3).
Both Vitamin D Forms D2 And D3 Work Equally Well
Vitamin D3 more potent than D2, further evidence
Vitamin D2 Is As Effective As Vitamin D3 In Maintaining Concentrations Of 25-hydroxyvitamin D, Study Suggests
The rice milk, soya milk, hemp milk, and almond milk I get are fortified with vitamin D2 (you have to be careful to check that it's not D3, because then that means that it came from an animal - I did this the other day because I mistook the 3 for a 2, and they didn't give a receipt so I called and they let me exchange it anyway). But yeah, most of them don't seem to have D3 - I think 8th continent tends to, but I've never seen it in person.