Re: What's the lamest excuse you ever heard as to why people eat meat?
I think the one I hear a lot that I think is pretty dumb is typically from women who say something along the lines of, "women can't go vegan because we lose iron every month and we need iron and you can't get it from supplements or other sources." Last time I checked, the molecular structure of iron in animals has not morphed into something different than what we know as iron from the periodic table.
Re: What's the lamest excuse you ever heard as to why people eat meat?
Someone said to me, yeah, they know it's wrong to eat meat but there's so much wrong with the world and you'll never fix it all. Oh.Kay.
Re: What's the lamest excuse you ever heard as to why people eat meat?
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tickled onion
so there was never any reason to invent meat cleavers and steak knives then?
Swap you your steak spoon set for my collection of lettuce knives?
Re: What's the lamest excuse you ever heard as to why people eat meat?
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misosoup
Actually, with regards to the arthitis comment. Many people with rheumatoid arthritis cut our dairy or follow a vegan diet and their symptoms improve dramatically.
I have rheumatoid arthritis and don't think I would be in the upright position I am now if it wasn't for my vegan diet.: it has worked wonders for me and no amount of drugs have ever had the benefit of a vegan diet. And to prove the point even more, the 6 monthly infusions of a chemotherapy drug ( and a very expensive drain on the NHS ) which I am supposed to have to keep me active and prevent deterioration according to my consultant I haven't had for well over two years and never a word about the impact of diet is ever muttered by the health professionals...
Re: What's the lamest excuse you ever heard as to why people eat meat?
Oh wow, congratulations! I am so glad for you! I am sorry your doctors aren't open minded, they could learn so much from people like you. I have seen so many testimonials about the benefits of a vegan diet. I have a joint condition and take turmeric as it's a natural anti-inflammatory, and when I told the rheumatologist she gave me a funny look. I initially took the turmeric for my skin but noticed my joints weren't swelling as much and got less eczema flare ups. Have you tried this? Also aloe vera juice is meant to be good too.
Re: What's the lamest excuse you ever heard as to why people eat meat?
Thank you guys for sharing your experience about how your vegan diet has helped your rheumatoid arthritis. My husband is an omnivore and last year in June he was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis. It was very scary because he was fine one day and the next his joints were grotesquely swollen and he was in so much pain. It went on for months and he rapidly deteriorated and I was scared for him. We thought he had contracted Lymes disease. We went to countless ERs and doctors getting him all sorts of tests and it was all complicated by his advanced HIV which he has had for 24 years (at one time it was full blown AIDS but thankfully the newer classes of meds have literally saved his life and he avoided the older AZT drug that was toxic to so many early victims of AIDS). He also had white spots on his lungs and the doctors were more concerned about that (found by accident). But the first ER doctor did run some tests which showed elevated rheumatoid factor. Eventually the rheumatoid arthritis was confirmed and he was started on prednisone. He had all kinds of tests (noninvasive and invasive) and the doctors never did figure out what the spots on his lungs were, even with biopsies of his lung tissues. The prednisone improved his condition dramatically but he puffed up from it and due to side effects and his HIV condition the doctors wanted him off it and they are being very conservative about the immune suppressing rheumatoid drugs due to the nature of his HIV and treatment for that. Very few HIV patients also have rheumatoid arthritis so doctors aren't sure how to treat but because of how the HIV drugs are actually causing an over response of the immune system more and more HIV patients are coming forward with autoimmune disorders and it is very very tricky to treat one without causing the other to become worse. I am trying very hard to get my husband to eat more fresh fruits and vegetables and he is eating more and more of my vegan meals but he still consumes loads of dairy which is the worst food for any type of arthritis. I do incorporate turmeric and also pineapple (has bromine which is an anti-inflammatory chemical) and more neutral/less acidic foods into his diet to try to help him. I tell him that drugs are not going to solve all his problems and that he should be doing everything in his power to help himself and a more vegan diet is going to help him. I think he needs to see some literature to be more convinced. He is such a meat and potatoes guy and it is like pulling tooth and nail to get him to eat vegetables. He is losing the ability to use his hands for the beautiful woodworking he does. Rheumatoid arthritis is such a horrible disease but so are the meds to treat it. I applaud you guys for fighting it in such a natural way. I hope more people come forward with positive stories. I am slowly getting through to my husband about veganism but it's like chipping away cement with a hammer. He is coming with me to a vegan activism event (walk for farm animals put on by Farm Sanctuary) in a few weeks so I guess that's progress.
Re: What's the lamest excuse you ever heard as to why people eat meat?
Hi misosoup, I don't take either of these but have read about the benefits but what I do take is hemp seed oil in liquid or capsule form for the anti-inflammatory properties. I have also read about the benefits of wheatgrass juice as well for auto-immune diseases so all good stuff that's worth a try. Good luck with it all!
Re: What's the lamest excuse you ever heard as to why people eat meat?
Hi Robinwomb, oh so sorry to hear about your plight for you and your husband and I can understand how frustrated and frightened it must all be. Looking back to when I was diagnosed at 32 it was a bolt out the blue and graduated from stiffness and swelling in my finger joints to waking up one day and not being able to get out of bed , pretty frightening stuff and I thought I would be destined to the wheelchair. The Doctors put me on the usual drug regime although I always refused to take steroids and somehow managed to stay off them. When Rituximab infusions were licenced in the UK ( very costly chemotherapy drugs ) I was offered these as I was considered a severe case. This drug was licenced for rheumatoid arthritis after cancer patients who suffered RA noticed a marked improvement. These were given to me in a low dose every six months and although I remained fairly active still had the usual flare ups and good and bad days and felt they were not as beneficial as I had hoped . So here I am now , having no more infusions and defying my consultant's advise not to go over the the six month mark as this could result in rapid deterioration. . I take a very low dose of methletrexate ( a much higher dose is normally recommended for severe cases ) and enjoy the daily benefits of a vegan diet which has been my real saviour and I am now leading a pretty active life and a mum to twin boys! Sorry if I've rambled on a bit but just wanted to give you the picture. But all in all I feel pretty angry how doctors remain so ignorant and ill informed about the benefits of a vegan diet when it comes to most diseases in favour of a lot of harmful, unnecessary and expensive drugs. I hope your husband will make the transition and reap the benefits, but I guess these things take time as most of us never adopted a vegan diet overnight. I wish you all the best....
Re: What's the lamest excuse you ever heard as to why people eat meat?
I too get very angry with doctors attitude to vegan diets, and diet in general. They just want to medicate because it's what they 'know'. When I told my rheumatologist I take turmeric, she gave me a 'look'. Can you imagine if it was just a case of change of diet and some natural remedies? It would shake up all they know. But their ego is too important, at the expense of patients who could benefit. I know that since turning vegan my acne and eczema has cleared up, my joints are less painful and I feel much healthier. My joint problems are from faulty connective tissue, rather than inflammatory, but I do get inflammation from joints rubbing against each other, and turmeric seems to help with that. I got into a 'heated exchange' with a friend yesterday, who was 'questioning' me on my diet- which I find infuriating as it's no-one else's business. They were 'wondering' if you can get all your nutrients and how 'angry' some vegans can be about it. It's so dismissive of stories like yours, people who have been healed through a vegan diet, yet people want hard facts. Who will do that? Which organization will sponsor a study into vegan diets? Have you thought of putting your story online, on a blog? May I ask, what prompted you do turn vegan? Or was it for ethical reasons, and health benefits were a surprise?
Re: What's the lamest excuse you ever heard as to why people eat meat?
Yeah, I understand your frustration totally and I think you would be extremely lucky to find an understanding and well informed Rheumatologist. When I look back on my early diagnosis ( in my pre-vegan days ) I often wonder if I would have suffered the amount of irreversible joint damage if the right advice had been given instead of the usual choice of drugs that only treat the symptoms and have no positive affect on the disease. Being a qualified nurse myself up until 6 years ago I have seen the ignorance of Doctors and nurses and the inaccurate and harmful advise that was given on a daily basis and the increasing prevalence of diseases I dealt with on a daily basis were phenomenal ( I never came across one vegan ). So whether it be heart disease, diabetes , hypertension ( the list goes on ) the drugs were first and foremost and bit of inaccurate diet advise thrown in as a side-line. My attempts at educating people on the benefits were not always successful as people are so ingrained in their diet and what Doctors tell them. (Doctors being so indoctrinated by the rich pharmaceutical industry ; drug reps were there in abundance when I worked in general practice.) Other examples: attending a diabetic course where I sat in despair as the usual recommended dietary advise prevailed. Other times when I have been in hospital with my son and having a visit from the dietician because he is vegan ( a special diet as far as they are concerned ) It makes me wonder how these people can call themselves nutritionists. My son has just had a kidney operation and as expected it was careful planning and liaising with the catering department before his admission to ensure his vegan needs were catered for. As you might know yourself, hospital food is pretty appalling at the best of times and even on a children's kidney ward ; once again no mention of a vegan diet. ( animal protein is one of the major causes of impaired kidney function and kidney failure ) But as you say misosoup, all they want to do is medicate you , keep the drug companies happy and remain in their ignorant bubble at the expense of others. . As for the conversation with your friend ,yeah its does get pretty frustrating. If I ever mention to someone that I am vegan ( only if I have to ) it's usually greeted with complete silence or taken as a personal vendetta by the other person who suddenly becomes a 'nutritional' expert and feel it is their right to question your choices. . I do try and spread the word as much as I can ( when people are prepared to listen ) I haven't posted online but maybe that's something I should consider. Have you heard of the nutritional facts.org website by Dr Gregor, this guy is fantastic and I highly recommend you sign up if you haven't already, there is some brilliant advice on there about the benefits of a vegan diet with auto-immune diseases amongst others. As to why I am vegan; obviously health issues are a big part but it's the animals first and foremost that did it for me and nothing will equate to that. So good to hear you are having so much benefit from your good choices and I wish you all the best with it. Of course trying to get people on our side is an on-going battle and the wake up call is a long way off....
Re: What's the lamest excuse you ever heard as to why people eat meat?
misosoup and Herbert, Thanks for sharing your experiences and what has helped you! I will pass along this information to my husband. I did find a few scientific studies that show improvement in RA with a vegan diet: http://rheumatology.oxfordjournals.o...0/10/1175.full http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10479237 I have been advocating for more vegan friendly food at the medical complex where I work for some time. In fact I spent a bit of money and donated a book called "Vegan in Volume" designed for vegan institutional cooking (with lots of recipes and information about vegan health and so on) for various groups (elderly, sick, students..) to the director of Nutrition Services with a letter attached. That was a month ago and I have not even received an acknowledgement or thank you for the donation. Hospitals are sorely behind the rest of the world in food nutrition which is appalling.
Re: What's the lamest excuse you ever heard as to why people eat meat?
Herbert, it is so rude when people question us. And it's amazing how defensive people get after all you have to say is 'I'm vegan'. It was very annoying as my 'friend' had been telling me about is paleo diet, which I didn't question, only asking how it works. I don't count a vegan diet in the same way, as veganism, usually, is for compassion for animals. I found it especially rude as I've struggled with an eating disorder since my teens, which he knows about, and being vegan has cured me of that. In that having less and less to eat made me appreciate food and where it comes from, and I can't binge and starve as a vegan. So I was really angry that he questioned the nutritional value, as I've had tests done since turning vegan and doctor said I am very healthy, even more healthy than when I was veggie. I am getting increasingly annoyed at the self-pity of some omnis when it comes to diet, when their suffering will never match an animal in the meat or dairy industry. Whenever I would miss dairy, I'd quickly snap out of my craving and self-pity when I thought of the animal's suffering. I also said in another thread, this is a guy who I've consoled about being a bullying victim and how he hates bullies, yet when I speak about meat he's adamant that 'it's the way the world works' and survival of the fittest. But if we applied that to human behavior we would excuse all sorts of horrible things, including bullying. It's easy to 'other' a group just to oppress them. Cannot deal with this hypocrisy. I dunno, I'm off on a tangent now lol. Just very frustrated at the moment with things. I do think you should write something online, just so it's there for others to read about, you might inspire another RA sufferer to heal using diet! Have you been on Curezone?
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This is an interesting site http://foodhospital.channel4.com/