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Thread: "All natural" vegan diet lacks B12?

  1. #1

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    Default "All natural" vegan diet lacks B12?

    I am pretty new to this whole thing..and I have a question. I have an acquaintance who was saying that he read there are no plant sources of B12 wand therefore , according to him , a vegan diet is "unnatural" - because he says its impossible to be vegan without artificial b12 supplements..

    Is this true? And what do I tell him?

    John

  2. #2
    cedartree cedarblue's Avatar
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    Default Re: "All natural" Vegan diet lacks B12?

    hi

    try this section of the forum, you will find lots of info here.

    http://www.veganforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=30

  3. #3
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: "All natural" Vegan diet lacks B12?

    Hi Jdm, we have lots of posts about this already!

    Here are some short comments to what you wrote (and some links):

    1) B12 is found in a number of plants / non-animal sources. Link: B12 in plants? Possible vegan B12 sources


    2) We live in a meat- and milk-oriented society, and most plant species (99%?) have not been tested for B12. In other words, if someone tells you that there are no reliable B12 sources except in pills or animal products, they can't possibly know what they are talking about.

    3) Plants (and soil, water, manure, human blood, multivitamins, non-vegan standard food) contain a mix of 'bioavailable', active B12, and passive, B12 analogues. The big question is if active B12 mixed with inactive B12 will be absorbed (in vegan food, animal food and supplements). Link: B12 analogues in multivitamins and animal foods.


    4) Are we 'meant to' only use natural products, or are humans 'meant to' use our skills to develop tools, clothes, houses? If we are 'meant to' - or even need - to cultivate nature to some degree, why not use those skill to cultivate B12 rich (non-animal) foods instead of using our human specific skills to make tools to kill animals?

    5) If your friend only wants to eat natural food, what does he say about the fact that meat and milk today comes from animals that consume a lot of supplements? Does he avoid these products (or computers, iPods, knives and forks etc.) due to their un-naturalness?

    6) If there would have been no B12 in plants, what scientific studies (as opposed to unscientific assumptions) does he use to explain where the plant eating, wild animals (like elephants, giraffes, moose, deer) get their B12 from?

    7) If he thinks that a non-vegan diet is more natural than a vegan diet, and that a non-vegan diet provides enough B12, why is it that several studies show that circa 40% of meat eaters are low in B12 (and low in many other nutrients, even if lots of these people even take multivitamins)? Link: Nutrient deficiencies more common in meat eaters than in vegans


    8) Most humans (and plants/soil/water) are exposed to 'B12 killers'.

    Let's say that an 'all natural' person in an all natural world would need eg. 1mcg B12 daily, and that his vegan diet + the fact that he is not exposed to all the B12 killers would ensure good B12 levels for him.


    Let's also for this example say that he (and you and me) are exposed to five 'B12 killers', and that the plants we eat also are exposed to five B12-killers, each reducing B12 levels by 10%. Wouldn't this suggest that we are likely to get low B12 levels, even if an all natural diet in an all natural world would have provided enough B12? Link: 50 ways to develop B12 deficiency

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    Default Re: "All natural" vegan diet lacks B12?

    Thanks so much you guys! That is all a lot to chew on (lol)

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