Environmental reasons to not eat meat

[satirecafe]

I have a good friend who seems to be very concerned with the environment, she told me that her reason for eating meat is "eating everything in moderation is good..." or something obscure like that. Anyway like i said, she seems genuinely concerned with the environment and every time she expresses her concern i want to tell her that giving up meat is the best thing she can do, but i'm afraid to because she gets very defensive, offended by others' opinions, and begins to make things up. how can i calmly explain this to her without getting into a fight?

she's also very well read and it seems odd to me that she never came across any literature explaining what meat does to the earth.

[Risker]

DancingWillow - I've had people do that to me before, leaving leaflets in the hope that I'll read them, it only encouraged me to throw them in the bin without reading them.

[satirecafe]

i actually like that idea, maybe not with a leaflet but an article. she doesn't have to know it was me, it could be any random person from school!

[DancingWillow]

, Risker. were they leaflets about veganism or something that you weren't interested in (like religious brochures or something)?

[Risker]

To be honest I don't remember, it was something my parents did years ago with articles from newspapers. The problem is when you know someone has left it there intentionally directed at you it's easy to see through and I found it quite irritating at the time.

[Roxy]

My boyfriend did a similar thing, when his ex-wife conveniently left him a few articles printed out from the Oprah website about men having a mid-life crises and finding younger girlfriends (I am the younger girlfriend that came along after they had separated). As you can imagine, those articles got filed into the trash without being read

Rather than just leaving an article laying about for her to read, I think you should take her some info and tell her that you didn't write it, although you would like to present her with a few facts that might give her something to think about.

[aubergine]

The Food Revolution by John Robbins is a superb book that covers the environment amongst other things.

The UN recently published a study titled "In Livestock's shadow" which is a heavy but useful read.

Ultimately I'd agree with what others have said. You might be right but you can't force someone to look into this.

[Korn]

"eating everything in moderation is good..."

The moderation-rule/cliche is true for a lot of things, but not always valid. Some examples: Using nuclear bombs in moderation is good. Eating meat in moderation is good. Violence against kids in moderation is good. Racism in moderation is good. AIDS in moderation is good.

I made a new thread, containing links (only) to various sites discussing meat eating and the effect it has on our environment, here.

how can i calmly explain this to her without getting into a fight?

For starters, what about asking her how she can back up her silly idea about eating everything in moderation is good - no scientist would ever back up such a general statement. IMHO it's just an empty cliche, really, and to say that everything in moderation is good limited to plants only wouldn't even be true (eg. there are many mushrooms that are very poisonous).

[aubergine]

As Dr Esselstyn states in his lectures, eating meat in moderation still causes people to die of heart disease.

[satirecafe]

For starters, what about asking her how she can back up her silly idea about eating everything in moderation is good - no scientist would ever back up such a general statement. IMHO it's just an empty cliche, really, and to say that everything in moderation is good limited to plants only wouldn't even be true (eg. there are many mushrooms that are very poisonous).

that's true. i'm sure she wouldn't agree that cannibalism in moderation is good. i really think she's one of those people who just dont want to see.

[kriz]

Pollution in moderation is not good either. In my experience many environmentalists are not much more aware of what effect their meat eating habits have on the environment than anyone else. As a matter of fact, some don't even bother to look at the facts... probably because they like their meat too much! I've met a few who even laugh at veganism and don't connect it with a sustainable lifestyle at all. So, I'm so glad that celebrities and environmentalists like Ed Bagley and Daryl Hannah are also embracing and promoting a vegan diet.

Good luck in trying to get the message through to her. I wish I had some effective advice to give, but I don't... maybe just recommending some books to read such as "Harvest for Hope" by Jane Godall would help.... or point to some prominent environmentalist who are vegans and encourage her to read some of their stuff.

[eve]

Korn is quite right about the cliche of everything in moderation. I must have heard it a thousand or more times. Especially if I've pointed out to someone the dangers of consuming meat and dairy - that is their invariable response. Then I say something like, what about some cyanide in moderation on your food?

The point is, people do NOT want to know, or to be told, especially environmentalists. I've had many a chat with a greenpeace person or a FOE person - they also don't want to know. In fact at one g/peace celebration, the dinner comprised native wildlife! Ultimately they eat meat and want to continue eating meat, or like vegetarians who consume dairy products despite having been shown that dairy is a cruel industry. They eat cheese and want to continue eating cheese.

Like kriz, I have no good advice to give - just continue with your own lifestyle satirecafe.

[satirecafe]

it's really bizarre, isn't it? you'd think that a person who truly cares about the environment would want to be told so that he could do whatever he could to help?? it seems like "environmentalists" only pretend to care for status.

[StevieP]

This may be the turning point for Friends of the Earth:

http://www.activeg.org/events/494.html

Check out the first two links in the story if you've not read the latest UN report on livestock and also the UK governments fears on meat rationing.