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Thread: Sainsbury's is dropping vegan labelling

  1. #1
    Demon
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    Default Re: Sainsburys

    Bought some So Organic Hazelnut Cereal Bars this week and they are delicous. The packet wasn't labelled vegan so I sent an email to Sainsburys and was very disappointed by the response:

    Thank you for your further email. I understand you would like to know if our SO Organic hazelnut cereal bars are suitable for vegans and why we have not printed a vegan sign on the packaging.

    I have found that these cereal bars are suitable for vegetarians, but not for vegans. This is because the methods used during production pose a cross contamination risk of milk.

    We have also decided to stop printing the vegan sign on our products, as we do not feel it is vital information. We believe this, as it is a personal choice to follow a vegan diet and is not as important as allergy advice.

    If you would like to know if any of our products are suitable for vegans, please feel free to contact us. Alternatively, you could call our freephone customer Careline with your request on 0800 636 262. Our Careline is open Monday to Saturday, 8am until 7pm.

    Thank you once again for taking the time to contact us and for giving us the chance to explain our position on this matter. I do hope that you will continue to enjoy our products in the future and will find everything to your satisfaction.
    (Clearly not!)

  2. #2
    fortified twinkle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sainsburys

    Gah! The labelling is virtually the only reason I shop at Sainsburys! The buggers!

    I've sent them a comment on their feedback page.

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    perfect RedWellies's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sainsburys

    Oh no! That's a real step backwards and means I can't keep telling Tesco that Sainsburys label stuff vegan.
    "Do what you can with what you have where you are."
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    fortified twinkle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sainsburys

    Well, I noticed that Tesco have started labelling quite a few things now - my housemate brought tortilla chips today, and they're now labelled vegetarian and vegan. And I got three flavours of sorbet, all marked vegan, from Tesco as well.

    I have sent Sainsbury's an email saying that the main reason I shop there is their labelling and that I feel this decision is a real step backwards. I hope they reconsider

  5. #5
    perfect RedWellies's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sainsburys

    I've just sent the same to Sainsburys, Twinkle! Good news about Tesco though
    "Do what you can with what you have where you are."
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Sainsburys

    That is awful.
    Message sent, telling them that as I no longer feel a valued customer, I will no longer be spending my money there.

  7. #7
    fortified twinkle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sainsburys

    Aw, don't tell them that! Tell them you will no longer be a valued customer UNLESS they seriously up their game, not only continuing to mark their vegan products, but labelling all the rest as well

    I'm still waiting for my reply. If I don't hear from them by tomorrow I will start writing, emailing and phoning their freephone number.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Sainsburys

    Hmm good point.
    Oh poo them, they're rubbish.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Sainsburys

    We have also decided to stop printing the vegan sign on our products, as we do not feel it is vital information. We believe this, as it is a personal choice to follow a vegan diet and is not as important as allergy advice.
    .

    Hmm, so vegetarianism isn't a personal choice - it's an alergy? I bet they don't stop printing that on the labels though! Morons.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Sainsburys

    I e-mailed them about their labelling and got a message on my answerphone also saying that they have stopped labelling vegan as it's a personal choice not an allergy. I only wish I'd been there to pick up the phone and speak to her. Presumably that means that they will stop labelling things veggie too? (I'm guessing there are more people allergic to dairy than to meat, anyway...)

  11. #11
    Knolishing Pob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sainsburys

    It's a personal choice to buy stuff off them too.

    Do they appreciate they will lose custom? Mind you then they can stop making/stocking vegan foods as there will be no demand for them.

  12. #12
    Rentaghost Marrers's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sainsburys

    Isn't all the nutitional information they print on stuff also to aid people in 'personal choice'? I'm livid.

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    (Ab/i/gail) AbFab's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sainsburys

    I've emailed Sainsbury's too - I agree that the more we bombard them, hopefully the more they'll stock for us, and see that there is ever-increasing demand. However, if they don't listen, then I'll vote with my feet and shop elsewhere. Mind you, the others aren't any better really, are they!!! Although I was in Tescos the other day, and noticed that they have a green V label for vegetarians, and a white one for vegans!
    And if cross-contamination is an issue, they should buy from suppliers that are wholly vegan - this would cater for the vegetarians therefore too - and hopefully get the manufacturers of vegetarian products to stop putting all that unnecessary animal-product nonsense in.
    Keep at it - we'll get there.
    Vegans go all the way.

  14. #14
    Rentaghost Marrers's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sainsburys

    The cross contamination is a red herring in my opinion, to do with allergies not veganism.

    Lord Sainsbury is an animal rights target due to his funding the Oxford Lab so their anti-vegan stance might be related to that if they associate Veganism with Animal Rights.

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    Quote Sainsburys
    We have also decided to stop printing the vegan sign on our products, as we do not feel it is vital information. We believe this, as it is a personal choice to follow a vegan diet and is not as important as allergy advice.

    If you would like to know if any of our products are suitable for vegans, please feel free to contact us. Alternatively, you could call our freephone customer Careline with your request on 0800 636 262. Our Careline is open Monday to Saturday, 8am until 7pm.
    I've just called that number, and - after a pause of several minutes to check with a superviser - the woman on the phone line confirmed that it's all true.

    I've asked her to escalate my complaint and to give me a response in writing.

    I'd suggest that everyone call the above number to do the same. Perhaps if enough of us do it, they'll realise that this is a pretty stupid PR move.

    Quote Sainsburys
    I do hope that you will continue to enjoy our products in the future and will find everything to your satisfaction.
    Hmm... What part of "we can't eat your products because you're refusing to tell us if they're suitable for us or not!" do you not understand.

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    (Ab/i/gail) AbFab's Avatar
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    Quote Marrers View Post
    The cross contamination is a red herring in my opinion, to do with allergies not veganism.
    Well, for whatever reason they don't want to go all the way, veganism due to choice or allergies due to circumstance, or abstinence due to religious reasons - whatever, they are shooting themselves in the foot.
    Vegans go all the way.

  17. #17
    Demon
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    If there is no joy, maybe the best strategy is to inundate them with requests to verify whether individual products are Vegan.

    That keeps the issue 'on the radar'.

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    Default Re: Sainsburys

    I've posted about this to both my blog and to the UK Vegans Live Journal community. I think the best thing we can do now is to shout very, very loudly.

  19. #19
    Abe Froman Risker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sainsburys

    I emailed them.
    "I don't want to live on this planet any more" - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth

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    Default Re: Sainsburys

    Quote Risker View Post
    I emailed them.
    I've just done it too. I like the idea of calling them as well - if enough of us harass them, it should get the point across. It would just be easier for them to continue labelling than answering phone enquiries all day!
    "Born on the same planet, Covered by the same skies..."

  21. #21
    (Ab/i/gail) AbFab's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sainsburys

    Hee hee, quite. Maybe we should have a day of action? And then target each of the other supermarkets too!
    Vegans go all the way.

  22. #22
    fortified twinkle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sainsburys

    I guess I could also take this as a sign that I should support the local wholefood co-op more, especially as they've just started delivering

  23. #23
    (Ab/i/gail) AbFab's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sainsburys

    Yeah. But I also think it would really help for the bigger, more mainstream supermarkets to get with the program!
    Vegans go all the way.

  24. #24
    Demon
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    I guess I could also take this as a sign that I should support the local wholefood co-op more, especially as they've just started delivering
    Yeah and probably the local Co-Op as well as they are pretty good at vegan labelling.

  25. #25
    Rentaghost Marrers's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sainsburys

    If supermarkets correctly labelled all their vegan own brand goods and other companies did the same it would allow people to see that becoming vegan is not as difficult, daunting and alien as they might think it is. The days of time-consuming shopping (carefully scanning each food label) and the perception of deprivation would end, making adhereing to a vegan diet seem a more mainstream, achievable and attainable concept in the public awareness.

    To be able to be in someone's house and look through their cupboard pointing out that they could in fact offer me something vegan to eat from their normal shopping was glorious, not to mention steering someone to look at the labels when doing their regular shopping to pick up some biscuits etc for when I was visiting rather than having to send them on a special trip to the health food shop or the co-op. Or embarrass them by having to bring my own.

    I think it is a real backwards step for veganism if the Sainsburys labelling stops.

    I know that Tesco is apparently doing something but a white V vs a green V is hardly obvious to anyone not in the know, so doesn't achieve the same widening of awareness as the Co-op and Sainsburys labels. ( And when I looked I found no consistency with the colour of the V in Tesco, it seemed quite random and they did not address my queries on it when I emailed them.)

  26. #26
    (Ab/i/gail) AbFab's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sainsburys

    Absolutely! There are LOADS of things we can eat, and the more people see the little 'vegan' word in their shopping, the better. It's NOT that difficult to be vegan, (certainly in this country) and it could be a whole lot easier - easier for us existing vegans, and easier for potential converts, who might think we are just making our lives unnecessarily difficult. I long for it to be more mainstream like vegetarianism finally is - it's SO easy to be vegetarian now, whereas it wasn't a few years ago. I do think we'll get there - just got to keep on at them! But I really think a big area for improvement is all those products that needlessly have some vague trace of animal product in them, when other brands don't have them - showing that it can be done.

    How happy are you to trust their own branding though? I've seen products marked as vegan, which had honey in them! That was a while ago, and I think they've rectified that item now. I'd love to see the official vegan society endorsed label on more things.
    Vegans go all the way.

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    fortified twinkle's Avatar
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    I wonder if the Vegan Society or the Vegetarian Society have offered to be consulted? If they gave their services for free and worked in partnership it would be beneficial for all concerned, if it could be done.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Sainsburys

    Maybe someone could let the Vegan Society know about this change of policy?

  29. #29
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    -Mumbles something very unsavoury about Sainsburys-
    I'll be e-mailing them
    ~xx

  30. #30
    Manzana Manzana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sainsburys

    I am ringing Sainsburys, emailing them, sending them a letter and never buying ther eagain till they sort it!!!! B*stards!!!!

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    Quote vegandrummersam View Post
    Maybe someone could let the Vegan Society know about this change of policy?
    I did. Hopefully they'll do something.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Sainsburys

    i'm going to email Sainsburys too (i'm not so confident on the phone!). apart from the fact that there's a Sainsburys very close to my house, the labelling is about the only reason i still shop there sometimes. GRRRRRR
    'The word gorilla was derived from the Greek word Gorillai (a "tribe of hairy women")'

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    Default Re: Sainsburys' Incident File

    I've had a conversation with their "Careline", and the woman I spoke to believed that I was the first to call about it. She believed this because there was nothing else about it in the "incident file".

    If true, then this means that our complaints aren't being recorded correctly. If you have already called them, I think it's important that you call them again (0800 636 262), say that someone has been told that no-one has complained about the issue before, and ask if your complaint is registered wherever they record ongoing issues [incident file]. (This will let them know that we talk to each other, which is bad, but is needed to let the upper echelons know that this is an issue in the first place, which is vital.)

    If the woman I talked to made a mistake, then hopefully we'll find out soon.

    Sainsbury's interests and our interests converge here. This should be winnable. Let's call them.

  34. #34
    Manzana Manzana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sainsbury's is dropping vegan labelling

    I just rang them again! THey said they are in the process of getting some information (i think they mean reassesing the situation and giving the idiot that made that decision a proper bollocking!) and then they'll call me back!...

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    Default Re: Sainsbury's is dropping vegan labelling

    They told me that the call centre has no knowledge whatsoever of any change (i.e. they have no reason whatsoever to suspect that it's true because the only people who have said anything to them about it is us - head office have never ever sent them anything to suggest that vegan labelling is being dropped), and if the *two* people I talked to said (after conferring with their superviser) that this change was going to happen, then that was totally incorrect information. They should have told me that as far as they know, Sainsburys have no plans to remove "vegan" from labelling.

    So apparently, this is what happened:

    Phone Person (to Superviser): Some really angry vegan has just called up asking if it is true that we are going to stop labelling vegan foods as vegan. He read out an email that someone claims we sent.

    Superviser: That's news to me. No one at head office has said they're doing anything like that, so we wouldn't have sent out an email, would we? Someone must have faked the email for some reason. Sod it, may as well tell him it's true we're dropping the vegan information, that we did send the email.

    Phone Person: But what if he asks why?

    Superviser: Well I don't know why we're doing it do I because I don't know that we are doing it, do I? Oh well... say something like it being to make more space for allegy information! That should sound good.

    Phone Person (to me): Yes it's true. Everything the email says is true. We dropping the vegan labelling and we're doing that to make more space for allergy information.

  36. #36
    Rentaghost Marrers's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sainsbury's is dropping vegan labelling

    I just phoned and they were very keen to find out where this information is coming from (she said they have been asked to find out as much as possible about where people are hearing about this).

    She said there are no plans to drop the vegan labelling at present but could not explain why things previously marked as vegan were not now marked once repackaged.

    She said when she gets a response on this - was not sure when that will happen - she would have someone write to me (she asked for my phone number but I screen my calls so they would end up not getting through).

  37. #37

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    Default Re: Sainsbury's is dropping vegan labelling

    Quote Marrers View Post
    She said there are no plans to drop the vegan labelling at present but could not explain why things previously marked as vegan were not now marked once repackaged.
    Cross-posted from my blog:

    Sainsburys DoubleSpeak

    The question is "are Sainsburys changing their labelling policy so that they will no longer label things as suitable for vegans?"

    Now, obviously that wouldn't mean that they would immediately spend lots of money redesigning their current packaging, but would instead - when designing packaging for new products or updating/redesigning the packaging for existing or modified products - not put vegan information on it.

    Sainsburys are now saying that this is not the case, as someone just reported in a comment to my earlier post:

    Hi - I've just called the Careline. The person I spoke to said that at this point there are no plans to change current labelling - any products that are currently labelled suitable for us Vegans will continue to be so labelled - but there is an investigation underway as to where the suggestion that it would be changed had come from. She also said that there were no plans to extend the labelling to new products as it was "not a legal requirement".

    Lil' Ruby Rose

    http://jonnynexus.livejournal.com/27...63500#t1763500
    Read that last sentence.

    "She also said that there were no plans to extend the labelling to new products."

    So they are dropping it. Product packaging might have a lifespan of what, two years? Then it gets redesigned, either because the product has changed, or because they want to show different stuff (perhaps because of new labelling laws).

    The point is that product redesign is a rolling process. I know this because when they switched to labelling stuff as vegan, things didn't change overnight. It took perhaps 12 to 18 months before the change had pretty worked its way through the system.

    Which is what's going to happen this time.

    They have changed their policy. They just admitted it.

    http://jonnynexus.livejournal.com/276325.html

  38. #38
    fortified twinkle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sainsburys

    Just had a telephone call from Sainsbury's customer services, re. my email to them.

    The lady I spoke to says they have no plans to stop labelling the products vegan, and will be investigating where this information has come from.

    ETA: just realised a load of other people have had responses since the last time I looked here. Will check it out...

  39. #39
    EFCliz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sainsbury's is dropping vegan labelling

    Well that doesn't make any sense because on the call I had she clearly said that they were dropping labelling vegan as it's a personal choice not an allergy. It's just so convenient for me to shop there, otherwise I wouldn't bother. Not that I have any better options near me.

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    Quote twinkle View Post
    Just had a telephone call from Sainsbury's customer services, re. my email to them.
    Just had a phone call as well. I said that no-one was suggesting that they might instantly redesign all packaging now, and then asked what would happen when (at some point in the future) they had to redesign packaging for a vegan item, either because labelling requirements had changed, or just because they wanted a new look and feel.

    Would the new packaging say, "Suitable for vegetarians and vegans" or just "Suitable for vegetarians"?

    She said she didn't know but would try to find out.

  41. #41
    perfect RedWellies's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sainsbury's is dropping vegan labelling

    I received a mail asking me where had I heard about the labelling being dropped. I just replied saying a friend had received an email from them.
    "Do what you can with what you have where you are."
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  42. #42
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sainsbury's is dropping vegan labelling

    Why does it matter if they know how we heard? I've seen similar reports in other places anyway.

    I haven't had an answer to my e-mail but I expect they're getting lots.

  43. #43
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    Default Re: Sainsbury's is dropping vegan labelling

    It is rubbish, I saw a few products that used to be labelled as vegan not being labelled as vegan last time I went to Sainsburys (3 days ago) and then I read this thread! They have tried to drop it (although maybe now they have changed their mind...)

  44. #44
    Manzana Manzana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sainsbury's is dropping vegan labelling

    (the product i remember is their wholemeal bread...), labeled as only suitable for vegetarians (despite having no egg or dairy!)

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    Default Re: Sainsbury's is dropping vegan labelling

    I've sent them an email too

    Whether the change to packaging is being planned or not, at least it reminds them we're paying attention to the packaging and that people do care whether the Suitable for Vegan text is included or not.

  46. #46
    fortified twinkle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sainsbury's is dropping vegan labelling

    Indeed.

    It doesn't even have to be on the front, if they think that's going to put people off (not that I think the average person on the street pays much attention to what they put in their mouths, I think they read the title of the product, and little else). Just a bit of text somewhere, saying it's suitable, isn't too much to ask!

    It's easier for all concerned if they find out what's in their products (which they should know!) and put that info out there, rather than us having to keep badgering them, tying up their customer service department and having to then maintain databases ourselves.

  47. #47

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    Default Re: Sainsbury's is dropping vegan labelling

    My latest (15 minutes this lunchtime) conversation with the Sainsburys Careline was hilarious, and followed the following
    pattern.

    1) I ask if they are taking vegan off the labelling.

    2) She says that they aren't, but that someone has put something, a rumour, on a website somewhere saying that they are, and they're trying to track down where that came from.

    3) She then says that new labelling laws don't require them to put vegan on the label but do require them to put allergy information on the label.

    4) I ask why she's telling me the above if they're not removing vegan from the labelling.

    5) She says that they at the call centre don't know what the current labelling policy is and that they are trying to find out.

    6) I point out that in this case, what the "rumour" is saying might actually be true.

    7) She reitterates that they don't know what the current policy is, but that they are trying to find out.

    8) I say that I don't understand why it has taken them two days when all they have to do is pick up a phone and call the people who design the packaging and ask them if the current design checklist calls for them to put vegan on something where it is vegan.

    9) She says the reason why it is taking time is because they (the call centre) are in York and the people who design the packaging are in London.

    10) I point out that the distance between two parties in a phone call has no bearing on how long it takes to make the phone call, as evidenced by the fact that I - who am also in London - is currently talking to her, in York.

    11) She says that they are waiting until they have all the information to hand before making a definitive statement.

    12) I point out that it's a yes or no answer.

    13) She says that they need to find out where the "rumour" originated from.

    14) I ask if she's saying that they are refusing to answer our yes or no question until they track down the source of the email? I further point out that we don't actually give a damn about where the email came from. We just want to know if it's true!

    And then we just went round in circles for a while.

    But the main thing is that rather than saying:

    "We don't know if the current policy labels vegan foods as vegan or not and are trying to find out" they will instead say something like "we've had no instructions or memos whatsoever saying that the policy is being changed to not label vegan foods but because someone has put a rumour up on a website saying that we are, lots of people are phoning us."

    You have to press them.

  48. #48
    perfect RedWellies's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sainsbury's is dropping vegan labelling

    Quote Jonny Nexus View Post
    I point out that the distance between two parties in a phone call has no bearing on how long it takes to make the phone call, as evidenced by the fact that I - who am also in London - is currently talking to her, in York.
    That is an excellent point

    I will mail them again later and nag. I'm good at that.
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  49. #49
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    Default Re: Sainsbury's is dropping vegan labelling

    In reply to my email, I got a voicemail from someone at Sainsbury's Careline saying: '...you’ll be glad to know that this isn’t actually happening… It isn’t actually true, we won’t be removing the “suitable for vegans or vegetarians” from our packaging at all.' The message also mentioned that they had been getting a lot of enquiries about this matter.

    The answer may beg a question or two, but at least Sainsbury's now knows that a lot of us find the labelling helpful.

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    West London
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    67

    Default Re: Sainsbury's is dropping vegan labelling

    Quote harpy View Post
    In reply to my email, I got a voicemail from someone at Sainsbury's Careline saying: '...you’ll be glad to know that this isn’t actually happening… It isn’t actually true, we won’t be removing the “suitable for vegans or vegetarians” from our packaging at all.' The message also mentioned that they had been getting a lot of enquiries about this matter.
    What they mean is that they aren't engaged on some kind of crash project to immediately remove the suitable for "vegans and vegetarians" bit from existing packaging designs. Those designs will be left as they are until they come up for redesign.

    If you then ask what will happen when that existing packaging comes up for redesign (i.e. will the new packaging have "vegan" on it), they then say that they don't know and are waiting for someone at head office to give them an answer to that question.

    They're being very creative (and perverse) in how they interpret the question you ask, such that they are answering a different question from the one you're actually asking.

    Basically, you get a different answer each time you phone up, depending on how much you press them and how carefully you frame the question.

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