Sainsbury's is dropping vegan labelling

[Clare...]

Re: The meeting with Sainsburys, it would be great to have more products that look like they should be labelled as vegan and/or used to labelled vegan, but are not labelled.

If anyone knows any products AND BARCODE please email them to Vegan Soc before 5pm on Thursday 7 Feb.

Thanks,
Clare

[Mr Flibble]

2008?

[Marrers]

I've emailed them this:-

Sainsburys - food that looks like it should be marked vegan

There are lots of items but I don't have time to go to Sainsburys and back before 5pm to have a look.
These are the only things I have ready access to:-

Taste The Difference Slow Roasted Tomato & Basil Soup
Barcode 0144 1673

Lemon and Coriander Houmous
Barcode 0117 5448

Also Caramelised Onion and Garlic Houmous - barcode not known

None of the 'Not Just For Vegetarians . . . ' range is marked as suitable for vegans but when I emailed in I was told on 27/11/06 . . .
Vegetarian Chilli & Rice
Vegetable Casserole with dumplings
Jambalaya
Vegetable Terriyaki
Bulgar Wheat Pilaff
Bean & Vegetable Casserole
Vegetable Tagine and Cous Cous
Malaysian Vegetable Curry with Noodles.

However the Vegetable Casserole with Dumplings contains milk as an ingredient . . . (Sainsburys have not to responded to my email several weeks ago regarding this error.) If things were labelled correctly there would be no confusion.

Personally I'd like the allergy and vegan issue separated but even if Sainsburys are confusing the two it doesn't make sense. Most of the things which look as though they should be suitable for vegans are things without allergy advice (like the first two items listed above). Yet when asked they tell us it is because of the risk of cross contamination with dairy.

If any risk of contamination doesn't warrant a mention for allergy sufferers it must be truly insignificant. I'd like Sainsburys to understand veganism and apply sensible and consistent labelling. If the ingredients are vegan that is good enough for me (relying on good food hygiene to prevent most if not all cross contamination) but if some vegans wish to know whether items were produced in a factory also handling dairy or meat maybe they could put 'vegan (*)' and print that information on the reverse somewhere.

And to clarify, we presume a leaf in a green circle is only suitable for vegetarians but a V in a green circle is suitable for vegans but perhaps they could clarify this. It does not state which underneath the symbol on all products.

Anyway, good luck at the meeting - we are all looking forward to hearing how it went and seeing some improvements at Sainsburys.

Best wishes,

Marrers from Vegan Forum

[Clare...]

2008?

Whoops meant Thursday 8th Feb, but un/fortunately not next year.

Clare

[Dr Phibes]

Evening all

I have just received this from Sainsbury's, it looks like we still need to keep on our guard and point out errors (by email or phone) as and when we come across them:

Thank you for your further email. I am sorry to hear that you have still not had a reply to your previous email about the removal of vegan and vegetarian symbols from our labelling. I appreciate how frustrating this must be for you.

Let me assure you that it is Sainsbury's policy to label products that are suitable for vegans, as “suitable for vegetarians and vegans”, using the Sainsbury's vegetarian and vegan logo. The only exceptions are those groups of products which are obviously vegan and where our vegan customers have indicated that labelling is unnecessary. Examples of this include plain waters, unseasoned flours, plain fruit and vegetables. The position of the logo on our packaging may differ from product to product due to different pack formats and the presence of other key customer messages.

We are trying to do much more to cater for those of our customers who have special dietary requirements. As public awareness around such issues grows, we are working hard to develop product ranges and labelling policies that reflect the diverse needs of our customers. I would like you to accept my apologies for the incorrect information you have been given.

I am also grateful that you have taken the time to point out an error in our Scottish porridge oats. I do understand that this creates a bad impression, especially for a company of our reputation. We produce many thousands of pieces of literature each year and have rigorous systems in place to try to ensure we avoid publishing any errors. It is very disappointing that these systems have failed on this occasion. I have made our cereal buyer aware of this so that the error will be corrected in the future.

I would like to assure you that we do not have any current plans to remove the vegan and vegetarian signs from our packaging. If you have any concerns about any of our products please feel free to call our Careline on 0800 636262, between the hours of 8am to 7pm Monday to Saturday. My colleagues there are more than happy to check the products and confirm if they are suitable for your diet.

Once again thank you for taking the time to contact us. I hope you will continue to shop at Sainsbury's in the future.

I asked about the range of Indian snack foods too but Sainsbury's hasn't given a response to that part of my enquiry so, you guessed it, I'll be contacting them again with specifics. The Customer Service reps seem to prefer contact by telephone (perhaps this is because it is not as easy to 'quote' the company when contact is made by telephone) rather than email but I would heartily suggest both.

I'll post more as it comes in...
Regards
Phibes

[Purple]

Just got this response - I asked about why toffee free from ice cream is vegan and raspberry free from isn't, when the packaging is almost identical.
It appears they are *both* vegan

Thank you for your further email. I understand that you would like to know why one of our dairy free ice creams was suitable for vegans and the other flavour was not.

I have looked in to this for you and I can confirm that both Sainsbury’s toffee and raspberry flavour ice creams are both suitable for vegetarians and vegans. I would like to assure you that it is Sainsbury’s policy to label our products as ‘suitable for vegetarians and vegans’ using the Sainsbury’s vegetarian and vegan logo. Therefore, we have no intention to stop labelling vegan or vegetarian products.

Please be aware that the vegan logo may appear in different places on the packaging depending on the size and shape of the product. We are working to ensure all our suppliers comply with our policy so that customers can have confidence in the labelling of our products.

Once again thank you for contacting us about this and for your interest in Sainsbury’s products. I do hope the information I have provided is useful.

Kind regards

Kerry Jones
Sainsbury's Customer Services

[Marrers]

But that does not in any way explain why it is not labeled (assuming you have checked it doesn't state 'vegan' somewhere else on the packaging).
As is often the case they seem to be contradicting themselves.

[Marrers]

Wonder how the meeting with the Vegan Society went.

[Purple]

But that does not in any way explain why it is not labeled (assuming you have checked it doesn't state 'vegan' somewhere else on the packaging).
As is often the case they seem to be contradicting themselves.

I know. I need to double check the labeling, but I'm convinced it doesn't say it anywhere else. Is anyone else finding this whole ordeal somewhat tedious?

I wonder how it went too!

[Clare...]

The meeting was positive and the codes were useful, we ended up with a pageful in the end.

A short report will go up on the Vegan Society website over the next couple of days, once it is up I will put an email link here as well.

Clare

[Purple]

Awesome Thanks Clare!!

[RedWellies]

The meeting was positive

That's good. I'll look forward to reading about it all.

[Dr Phibes]

Just a quick note...
I've had more contact with Sainsbury's and indications are that if we want action on the mis-labelling of products we need to send in a list of products we think have been labelled incorrectly, along with bar codes, and the CS rep promises faithfully that action will be taken to rectify any mistakes or explain why the labelling has changed. I'm off to Sainsbury's now with a notepad and pen...

[dreama]

I've just read this. I'm glad that they are not going to scrap the vegan logo. As a deafblind person I think that it is very important. It would be even better if the logo's were in braille. (They could have a single V for vegitarian and VV for vegan) thought it still helps for things to be labelled as vegan as which ever sainsbury staff who is helping me with my shopping will know for sure if the item is vegan or not.

Today I went to sainsbury. I asked for indian snacks that were suitable for vegans and the girl who was helping me with my shopping said there wasn't any. I suppose because they were only labaled as vegitarian. Mind you at least she was ok at using my communication card. It's an alphabet card with braille on top of print letters. To comunicate with the general public who don't know the deafblind manual, I get them to put my finger over the braille to spell out words. You would be amazed at the number of people who didn't seem to get it.

[RedWellies]

Perhaps they can't spell!!!

[dreama]

This is the response I got:

"Dear Helene

Thank you for your email. I understand that you think it would be useful for the vegan sign on our products to be accompanied by Braille.


I have passed on your positive comments to our product development team and also the packaging department. They will review them and monitor any further requests.

It was also great to hear that you are happy with the vegan labeling we have on our products. I can appreciate how helpful it must be, especially as it helps the person helping you get your shopping and saves so much time.

Thank you once again for your email. I hope that you will continue to enjoy shopping at Sainsbury’s.

Kind regards

Natalie Townhill
Sainsbury's Customer Services"

It completely ignores my 2nd paragraph were I said I was concerned about their plans to scrap the vegan label? I know it's been sorted out now, but they could have at least pointed out that it had.

[twinkle]

I phoned Sainsbury's customer care line yesterday to find out why the French onion soup dried packet mix was not marked as vegan - they had to look into it, and called me back today to say that it was "not suitable for vegans because of the risk of cross contamination on the production line" - I pointed out that there was NO allergy advice warning of possible animal products in there, and asked if that wasn't a bit inconsistent. I also tried to explain the stance that most vegans would say that as long as it doesn't actually contain animal ingredients we are aware of the possible cross contamination issue, and would take that as read, and a label stating it as vegan but done of the same production line would be fine. Clearly if any progress has been made on clarifying this issue it hasn't been filtered through to the call handlers yet.

[Clare...]

Here is the info about the Vegan Soc meeting:

http://www.vegansociety.com/phpws/in...view&ANN_id=96

Clare

[Marrers]

. . . it was "not suitable for vegans because of the risk of cross contamination on the production line" - I pointed out that there was NO allergy advice warning . . .

See this is what I really really don't get - was there any comment on that area in your meeting with them Clare?

[Clare...]

See this is what I really really don't get - was there any comment on that area in your meeting with them Clare?

There are only certain ingredients that need to be allergy labelled: milk products, eggs, some fish and nuts for example.

Some animal products are not allergy labelled so it is possible that the mix is cross contaminated with a product that does not need to be allergy labelled.

Otherwise I think it must have been a mistake and they should label it vegan.

Clare

[RedWellies]

I noticed that their organic white wine is no longer labelled as vegan. I'm afraid I can't be bothered to call them about it ( ), I'll just buy my wine from somewhere else.

[Dr Phibes]

I've noticed that too - so much for there being no plans to remove vegan labelling?!? Surely ANYONE with eyes can see it's happening to hundreds of products. The constant complaining on the phone and by email doesn't seem to be doing any good. After the meeting with the Vegan Society I had hoped things would get better, not worse. What else can be done?

[Clare...]

I've noticed that too - so much for there being no plans to remove vegan labelling?!? Surely ANYONE with eyes can see it's happening to hundreds of products. The constant complaining on the phone and by email doesn't seem to be doing any good. After the meeting with the Vegan Society I had hoped things would get better, not worse. What else can be done?

The situation with less labelling started way before this meeting which was less than two weeks ago.

Personally I think the main thing that moved Sainsbury's to pledge that they won't remove the labelling is all the emails and phone calls. Who knows what the situation would be like without them.

The Vegan Society is more a point of contact - I think positive relations with Sainsbury's and constant confirmation that there is a demand for vegan products is going to keep the labelling if anything is.

[Marrers]

So let's still all contact them when we see something lose it's vegan labelling or something that looks like it should be suitable for vegans. Otherwise they might think it was just a short term burst of activity hyped up by the internet.

Starting with the wine! Could someone who knows which wine it is contact them about it? (Wine being labelled makes a massive difference when anyone is coming to my house and bringing a bottle so I'd really appreciate them labelling that as well as Co-op do - I didn't know they labelled it at all.)

[RedWellies]

Oh, OK then, Marrers, just for you I will call them. Might not be today though. As far as I know it was only the one wine they labelled before.

[twinkle]

There are at least 3 wines labelled vegan in my small local Sainsbury's - there's a cheap Bulgarian red for 2.99, one of the Taste the Difference ones at about 5.50 and a fair trade organic at 5.99 (I can't remember the names of them, and sometimes it's easier to look at the price labels anyway! ) - and those were all reds. I think the organic Soave used to be labelled and now may not, but I don't have any definite info on that.

It might genuinely not be vegan any more, rather than a labelling issue, though, as wine production methods can change from year to year.

[Marrers]

Oh, OK then, Marrers, just for you I will call them.

[aubergine]

None of their fresh pasta sauces are labelled vegan anymore as they're revamped the range.

And by revamped I think they've changed supplier. They are all super chopped up nowm whereas before they did a delicious one with big pieces of roasted veg and wine sauce.

[Dr Phibes]

All of the organic own brand wines used to be labelled as vegan, and you're right Marrers - labelling on wine is essential!
I've contacted them tonight and they're investigating.
On another note, there was some mention some time ago of the Indian ready meals getting a label revamp... I've had confirmation today that the pilau (mushroom and plain) are actually vegan and the labels are going to be changed to reflect this soon (watch out). The samosas, bhajis and snack selection are no longer vegan due to possible contamination in the factories where they are made. Sainsburys say that the risk is low but there is a risk so they have erred on the side of caution and removed the vegan labelling. If this is the case then I for one am happy that the labelling has been altered to reflect this. Hope this news is of use to someone.

Regards
Phibes

[Dr Phibes]

More Sainsbury's news:
I've just had a reply regarding the organic wines, as follows:
"I can confirm that our six SO organic wines all have indicated on their back label if they are suitable for vegetarians or vegans. The French Chardonnay, Shiraz, Italian Pinot Grigio and Valpolicalla are all suitable for vegetarians. The Chilean Merlot and Argentinian Sauvignon Blanc Torrontes are suitable for vegans.
We have few details on the branded wines we sell. However, the Penfolds organic red wine also indicates on its label that it is suitable for vegans.
I am pleased to inform you that we are in the middle of updating our wine list that are suitable for vegetarians and vegans. We hope to have this available in the near future. In the meantime, please visit our website for further information on the wines we sell in our stores."

I'm sure that there were previously at least 4 of the organic wines that were vegan but at least we now have confirmation that there are 2 Sainsbury's own and one other to choose from - ain't we lucky?!?

Regards
Phibes

[alisont]

I can never find the vegan wines in Sainsburys I just tend to stick to Co Op off licence by work - much quicker and better selection...

Uncle found a vegan wine in his local Sainsburys a kosher wine - very sweet red like a desert wine - very unusual! more like a port than a glass of red!

The own brand cider we all like here is still saying vegan on

[Cumin]

The samosas, bhajis and snack selection are no longer vegan due to possible contamination in the factories where they are made.

Interestingly, In-store today, I noticed that the bhajis are now labelled vegan again. Good news, but I wonder why. Maybe they have a new production line.

[Dr Phibes]

I've noticed that too! Makes you wonder if you can trust Sainsbury's at all, doesn't it? Think I'll stick to the raw organic veg...

[Risker]

My local sainsburys is so rubbish, I checked all their products today (It's not very big) and there were 2! products marked vegan, one was tortilla wraps and the other ready salted crisps. Rubbish!

[Agatha]

i found sainsbury's labelling was always a bit hit and miss. They sometimes wouldn't label things vegan that were, like anything in the Economy range (yes i'm poor) *blushes* but on the plus side they never label stuff as vegan when it isn't. If there's something that looks vegan on the ingredients list but isn't marked you can usually harrasss one of the assistants to look in the Big Ingredients Book for you.