Doctor's orders

[Doog]

I'm having some pretty serious health problems and my doctor strongly advised me to start eating fish. I told him I didn't think I could do that, so he advised me to get some fish oil supplements. I did. They smell pretty gross, but I've been taking them.
I'm not sure how I feel about this. Have you ever had to compromise your principles for the sake of your health?

[Artichoke47]

No, and I never will. Is he thinking you need omega 3s? Take flax oil or flax seed. Some people are so uneducated about nutrition. If you get orders from a doctor, make sure he/she is an informed one. LOL

[Hasha]

Hey Doog! Ask your doctor exactly what he thinks you need to get from fish. If it's omega 3s, then as Artichoke said, get some flax seed (ground up, otherwise you won't absorb the nutrients). If it's something else, then do some research (or ask on this forum!) and find out what the vegan alternatives are. Hope you get well soon!

[Korn]

After some traveling in India and Nepal I was once told by a doctor that I needed to start to eat meat in order to get rid of some bacteria I had picked up from some food (!). Unfortunately, many doctors know very little about nutrition, and when they hear that you're on a diet they know little about, they blame everything on what you (don't) eat. I've even heard of a case where a vegan between 80 and 90 years old died, and the doctors said it was because of his diet, age as a possible reason for his death wasn't even considered.

I agree with Hasha, ask him exactly what he thinks you need to get from fish (maybe after you have read this thread first.) Maybe you need Omega-3?

Or maybe you need to increase your B12 intake or lower your homocysteine levels? What about iodine?
It's totally possible to be a vegan and still eat a very unbalanced and unhealthy diet, and in many cases the diet isn't even a major part of the problem.

I hope you find out what you need to do (or stop doing) in order to get well.

[cedarblue]

walnuts are good in omega 3 & 6

[Kiva Dancer]

Until you find out what exactly your doctor thinks you need to get by eating fish, all our guessing won't mean a lot.

[John]

Doctors are proscribing fishes now? Sorry to hear about your illness but last I heard, doctors were warning people to stay away from fish because of high toxin levels.

About 100 years ago, it was discovered that fish oil prevents rickets. Nowadays we have other sources of vitamin D for children who don't get enough sunlight. I eat flaxseed oil almost every day and I'll put my omega 3 levels up against anyone.

[Doog]

I'm not sure what he thought I'd get out of fish exactly.
um... it's a mental health problem (bi-polar disorder and psychosis).
He said there was something in it that helps brain function.
I'll ask him what exactly he thinks will help and then see if y'all can help me find it.

[Artichoke47]

Be firm. Make sure he tells you EXACTLY which nutrient you need. Don't let him give you the run-around. If he's so smart, he should know a plant-based source. Or maybe we will.

[Mystic]

I'm not sure what he thought I'd get out of fish exactly.
um... it's a mental health problem (bi-polar disorder and psychosis).
He said there was something in it that helps brain function.
I'll ask him what exactly he thinks will help and then see if y'all can help me find it.

I would say it would be the issue of omega 3s. Like the others have suggested, go for walnuts, flaxseed/linseed in the form of the oil or grinded whole seeds, and if I am not mistaken, canola oil.

[Wildflower]

Omega 3's help with brain function, but on the other hand - MERCURY AND HEAVY METALS found in fish, cause BRAIN DAMAGE! So that is kinda funny he would suggest that.

You can get healthy omega 3's from flax seeds and walnuts as was mentioned - and no heavy metals!

[Gorilla]

i'd expect he would be suggesting you need omega oil as i have mental health problems and i have been advised to ensure adequate omega oil. luckily though my current doctor isn't so biased as to think only fish oil is a reliable source of omega oil, and is happy for me to continue getting it from plant sources.

i'm sorry to hear you're struggling with this illness. there are a few threads on here related to depression and so forth which you might like to read if you haven't already. good luck.

[Doog]

Thanks, everyone! I really appreciate your help.
I'll see about getting some walnut oil.

[phillip888]

Doog, as has been said and implied here, your doctor is incompetent. Did they subscribe salt or letting of blood with leeches? Seriously there is no basis for prescribing fish, shaking colored sticks over your nostrils, or pouring monkey urine in your ears. I would seriously consider finding another doctor.

Supposed unique fish 'magical elements':

protein
omega3
Vitamin B12

Actual unique 'magic elements' in fish:
cholesterol
murcury
salmonella

[feline01]

I take Omega Zen 3 daily, it's omega 3 oil derived from microalgae. If your in the US, it's available at www.veganessentials.com or www.veganstore.com. But like everyone suggested, first ask the doc why fish. Remember, most fish available currently are loaded with mercury/PCB's. Not the healthiest items to ingest.

I went to an opthomologist this weekend about an eye problem. The doc told me to wash my eyes twice a day and started writing a prescription for an antibiotic. I asked him if the antibiotic was really necessary. He told me no, that I just needed to wash my eyes 3 times a day instead of 2. So I would have been taking something that was animal-tested, probably made with animal derivatives and completely unecessary!

[kriz]

My dentist also suggested antibiotics after I had a tooth extracted, but I said I did not see it as necessary and she agreed! Sometimes you just HAVE to question the doctors order.

[snivelingchild]

I'm not sure what he thought I'd get out of fish exactly.
um... it's a mental health problem (bi-polar disorder and psychosis).
He said there was something in it that helps brain function.
I'll ask him what exactly he thinks will help and then see if y'all can help me find it.

My mother was always pushing fish oil capsiles at me for the same thing. When I went vegan I finally threw them out and started eating flax. I've found that I have fewer episodes after going vegan and increasing my flax. Also, the fish oil capsules were so huge and hard to swallow. I think flax oil capsules in veggie caps would be something you could look into for something more regulated.

[Doog]

I don't think my doctor is incompetent, but even if he were I'm completely broke and relying on free medical care at the moment so there's not a lot I can do about it. Besides, he's a psychiatrist not a dietician.
I'll talk to him about what exactly he thinks I need and I'll utilize the resources here to find those nutrients.

I don't believe in animal consumption or the exploitation of animals, but if it comes down to me losing my mind and having to go the hospital or consuming animal products then I'm going to choose the latter. I have to trust my doctor because I can't trust myself. My judgement is impaired.

Thanks again for your help.

[Astrocat]

Re: "I don't think my doctor is incompetent, but even if he were I'm completely broke and relying on free medical care at the moment so there's not a lot I can do about it. Besides, he's a psychiatrist not a dietician."

It wouldn;t matter much if he were, to be honest - there is no proper regulation of dieticians or naturopaths anyway.
Doctors receive just 3 hours of nutritional training in their extensive medical training setup - and that training is funded by the corporations which have a vested interest in ensuring that people think that veg*nism is unhealthy.


Re: "I'll talk to him about what exactly he thinks I need and I'll utilize the resources here to find those nutrients."

Please do - i guarantee that whatever it is that he thinks you will need, it will be easy to find in the plant kingdom.


Re: "I don't believe in animal consumption or the exploitation of animals, but if it comes down to me losing my mind and having to go the hospital or consuming animal products then I'm going to choose the latter. I have to trust my doctor because I can't trust myself. My judgement is impaired."

You do not have to trust your doctor unless you feel that he is right.

I have been through the nutritional gauntlet as i have an immune system disorder, and i can assure you right now that the vast majority of doctors don't know their backsde from their elbow when it comes to nutrition.

I have had a total of 7 nutritionalists try to tell me that i am ill because i do not eat fish.
When i asked why they felt this way and what was in fish that was so vital anyway, i got the following responses

"uhhh.... well fish is good for you..."

"uh... well there's ... stuff in it that you need... and stuff..."

"It just is. Because i say so. My daughter is a nutritionalist too and she agrees with me, so i must be right"

"protein. you must be seriously deficient in protein if you are vegetarian"

"what, don;t vegetarians eat fish ?!? (as if the fact that she thought vegetarians would eat fish automatically meant that fish must be healhful or something (O.o) )"

"what's your problem anyway, fish is good for you"

and last but not least

"well, there's ... stuff in it that you can;t get from plants... it's important stuff"

...

notice how none of them actually answered my question, while simultaneously displaying their ignorance.

I was also told by my GP that i have pale skin because i am anaemic (i live in a place where the sun rarely shines, have pale-skinned ancestry and so as a result have always been pale-skinned but supposedly that was all irrelevant), that this was the cause of all of my health problems (i have suspected chronic candida overgrowth leading to M.E, nothing to do with anaemia whatsoever)

My doctor announced that since i was vegetarian there was no point in her wasting "precious NHS resources" on an iron level/anaemia test since clearly vegetarianism causes anaemia and any fool could tell this was my whole problem healthwise.

I had to be a stubborn brute before she would agree to at least test me before making such insanely ignorant statements and presumptions about my health, which she did very begrudgingly while telling me how unnecessary it all was since I was vegetarian.... with the result that she looked a bit sheepish when the results came back saying that not only was my iron level fine, but that it ws actually really quite healthy indeed compared to normal - and that i definitely was not anaemic.

These people were all qualified to give nutritional advice, and it does worry me that people will give what they say weight because of their profession rather than their credibility.

I agree with Phillip that doctors - and dieticians or nutritionalists - are generally incredibly incompetent when it comes to nutrition but then again.... if i had only learnt, say, Swahili for 3 hours as a short-course, and was learning from a vague textbook full of mistakes then i wouldn;t be too great at Swahili by the end of the course either - so their ignorance and dietary incompetence is very understandable.

I was numerous times told that if i did not eat dead fish or consume fish oil, then i would never begin to get better... well, i stuck to my ethics even though their manipulation was upsetting me greatly at the time and the repetition of their ignorance was starting to make me suspect that they might be right... and i can honestly say with conviction that they were completely wrong.

Bear in mind that fish oil might well make you feel worse as it contains many toxins, and that due to the verrrry short lifespan of stored fish oil the majority of fish oil sold in capsules in shops is already going rancid at the point of purchase, with the result that it will only do harm to your body.
This is why fish oil is reputed to smell and taste fishy, even though non-rancid fish oil should be odourless and tasteless.

Personally, as vegan - and as a previous ethical vegetarian - i would not be able to live a life founded on exploitation of others - especially in the case of health since it is illogical and unscientific to assert that fish should be required for healthy functioning of a human.

I mean, the last time i looked there was no Vitamin Fish...

[eve]

I don't believe in animal consumption or the exploitation of animals, but if it comes down to me losing my mind and having to go the hospital or consuming animal products then I'm going to choose the latter.

And you'd be making exactly the right choice. What good are you to yourself or to those you love, if you are hospitalised? Get well first. However, bear in mind that as others have posted here, doctors know zilch about nutrition. It is not part of their training; I don't even trust nutritionists. It puts a burden upon each of us to do our own research. There's the net with many websites with info. For one, the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine http://www.pcrm.org is a good place to start.

[Artichoke47]

Good point, Eve. We don't want you to lose your mind, but we also don't think animal products are necessary to gain the mind you lost. So the statement is flawed, anyway.